For those who hate RAP!

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Bloke in the Corner
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 02:27 PM

Yes, most rap is dreadful, trite rubbish which has NOTHING to do with music or talent - it's largely a CHEAT. Can any of them actually play an instrument?
Of much more importance, however are 1)that it sings the praises of a vile attitude towards the rest of the world, giving young people a dreadfully wrong view of reality and 2) it has subverted black music into a travesty of what it was thirty years ago and should still be - namely the very basis of the best popular music. There are simply NO good black artists around now, they are either sneering, foul-mouthed men or appaling, warbling women churning out the most banal, valueless songs to a public increasingly fed what the major labels what them to hear. It is a shame that young black kids have no-one better to look up to than 50 cent or Missy Elliott.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Peace
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 01:26 PM

Ellison is IT as a writer. He ranks with the best. I keep hoping to see something of his come out--and hoping, and hoping . . . .

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: annamill
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 01:11 PM

I LOVE Harlan Ellison! Is he still writing? Is he still alive? I once considered leaving my second husband, traveling to Cali., finding Harlan Ellison just to tell him I loved him. All this from Shatterday! I want more!! I must find these other writings you have spoken of here.

Just like all !music!, some rap I like (eminem, LJ Cool, Ice Cube, and someone help me, Vanilla Ice), some is obnoxious and highly offends my
gentle sensibilities. Tee Hee.

Later..

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 01:04 PM

While I find most current rap "uninteresting," due largely to the commercialization and subject matter, my impression is that there is a legitimate "folk" history that could be of interest. Unfortunately the current "rap" cycle seems to be associated with an "invented" black ethnic origin that isn't well documented (so far as I know).

My first knowledge of what now passes as "rap" was from a "wandering minstrel" of sorts who visited at my church youth group activities in 1955-1956 from "somewhere on the west coast." He gave frequent demonstrations, but called it "street-talkin'" and reported it as an ethnic phenomenon from the "Hispanic ghettos" where he had lived recently in Southern(?) California.

Since our "youth fellowship" and our "choir" were essentially the same group, and consisted almost entirely of music and/or religious studies students from Friends University (then formally the "University of Friends Church") there was significant "scholarly interrogation" of the visitor, and a few people apparently did make an attempt to "research" the phenomenon. It was reported informally to us that inquiries with "black churches" with which there was an association found no knowledge of the method within the black community in Wichita, although the extent of the research done was probably not thorough. It is possible that some of those who were interested may have carried reports back to their music departments, but I don't know of any formal theses on the subject.

There were no existing associations with Hispanic ethnic groups at the time to make inquiry there, so it's not possible to say whether it was "known underground" in our area. (There were few Baptists in the Hispanic community of the era.)

It may be noted that one of the students in the group was in the process of doing a "research paper" on "speaking in tongues" and had made some "unusual" contacts as part of that research. He reported that he had asked about the "street talkin'" among those contacts. He found no direct knowledge of either phenomenon within Wichita, although I had heard (from outside - they can be quite loud) what appeared to be "speaking in tongues" at one local church and reported that to him when I heard of his interest.

Unless some unknown scholar has made records, it's likely that the current "rap" commercial exploitation has "polluted" the history far too much to make any real research/gathering of older history possible. But it would be interesting ...

John

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Azizi
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:58 PM

To punkfolkfocker & willie-o,

Right on! {A decidedly out dated compliment!, I know.}

While I don't consider myself a "crotchety old folkie" or even a "folkie" at all, I do post on this forum and I am over 40.

And I feel that I have just as much right as anyone else to an opinion or two or three.

I believe that there are some good rap recordings and some bad-just like other music genres. And yes, I do consider rap to be a musical genre and hip-hop to include more cultural aspects than the music such as its influence on written & spoken language that mainstream United Staters and others uses 24/7 without giving props when & where & to whom they are deserved.

It seems to be traditional for older people to dis the young, but
I will not sit back and let "crotchety old folkies" and young bloods or middle age people whatever dismiss an entire musical genre without saying my piece.

Peace!

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,Sidewinder
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:57 PM

Some of the most stirring and thought provoking music of the 70s and 80s were Rap or Rap inspired listen to Grandmaster Flash -White Lines Public Enemy etc. and tell me that it's trash. As it developed from Subterreanean Homesick Blues (supposedly) then you will agree the same for songs of Woody Guthrie and the enigmatic Mr.Z I suppose? In the 1940s people were ridiculing Jazz, in the 50s it was Rock and Roll, and so on, and so on. These people were afraid of change and tried to maintain the status quo. But we all know now that there is something positive to be gained from every new cultural development and ridicule and negativity toward new ideas amounts to oppression and censorship and where did those evils ever get us? If you're going to criticize at least have the decency to do some research first.

Best Wishes.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:28 PM

I really enjoyed the French Rap that came out of the movie "Le Haine" The group is Expression Direkt. I don't understand it and make no claims for its social value.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: *Laura*
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:19 PM

rap is one thing - RnB is another. rubbish and bollocks.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:12 PM

i love folk music..

not all of it.

and not many of the highly dubious intolerant supremacist characters
who take pround refuge in their version of its shadily retrogressive
traditionalist agenda
and inward looking social sub-culture..

happy new year again..

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:08 PM

Yeah, but....WHAT kids?

My brain is working fabulously, thank you very much! :-) I have never been smarter and more clued-in than I am right now. If you want a few tips on improving your own brain cells, I will be happy to offer you some...

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:01 PM

..sounds like you're well over 40
and down to your last failing brain cell..

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: kendall
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 11:59 AM

Rap is to music what graffiti is to literature.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 11:53 AM

"If you don't listen to something cause you don't like it at all, you're hardly qualified to pass judgment on its musicality."

I suppose then,according to you, very few are qualified to pass judgement regarding the taste of a mouthfull of crap either.

Come on. Anybody over 40 with two or three brain cells left to rub together knows, without having to be immersed in either, that
both are extremely distasteful.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,willie-o
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 11:44 AM

Just hearing K-OS on CBC as someone's best-of-2004 choices as I check this thread. They are not only socially responsible but have considerable musical value--in fact it doesn't fit the "rap slot" so many people have constructed for this genre, I am hearing some real nice soulful harmony singing, the kind I couldn't do on the best day of my life.

My question is, why in this world full of freakin choices, because humans are different and understandably like different stuff, is it assumed, albeit correctly, that so many people just plain hate anything in the rap/hip-hop call-it-what-you-will genre? I've heard various interviews with country singers who apropos of nothing will say, "I hate rap", right in there with how much they love Mom, apple pie, Old Glory and good old dead dogs like Shep. I mean, I don't like opera but why would I bring that up in a conversation about sheep dog trials?

I consider this kind of special singling-out of rap for condemnationto be a kind of legitimized racism, whether intentional or subconscious.

So it irritates me to see crotchety old folkies going the same way.
If you don't listen to something cause you don't like it at all, you're hardly qualified to pass judgment on its musicality.

Of course, when it comes to other subjects, like say, drumming circles, I have my own incredibly worthwhile opinions...


W-O

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:53 AM

Like the other guy said...What kids????

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:49 AM

Uh oh, thread creep. Anybody read Harlan Ellison's WONDERFUL intros in "Dangerous Visions" and "Again Dangerous Visions"? Even better than the collected stories.

Back to rap . . . when I first heard it, it was rather exciting. That was back in the '80s and it was more like street poetry with a background of interesting and intellectually appropriate music clips. Alas, it deteriorated rapidly as a genre. I really hate it blasting mindlessly from the car next to mine at a stop light. Otherwise, I can avoid it.

And a friend of ours who does recitations at our session came out of working many years at the post office and wrote (and performs when we can cajole him) "The Post Office Rap."

Linn

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkfocker
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:42 AM

"It may have good lyrics and serve a purpose but it haas no musical value."

complete bollocks old chap..

the best of rap..
and even examples of the more mediocre..

is an inventive and living highly immaginative
and musically captivating artform..

..though most of modern factory churned out rap is most likely
repetitive formulaic oportunistic negative lyric shite..

so please keep it in perspective..

a large part of folk has no musical value;

fortunately the good inspirational stuff
is worth devoting a life time to..

same with rap..

and yes..
theres plenty of room for sympathetic intelligint
and musical folk/rap crossover..
just as much as folk/blues
folk/country..
follk/punk..
err.. folk/prog rock..
and those supercilious diletante classical musician folkies
that stretch my tolerance levels..

happy new year....

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Peace
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:24 AM

"Ellison Wonderland."

'I have no mouth and I must scream.'

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: John C.
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:21 AM

I love the science fiction writer Harlan Ellison's description of most modern pop music: "Post-music noise".

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:13 AM

It may have good lyrics and serve a purpose but it haas no musical value.

eric

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: fat B****rd
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:07 AM

F**k it, I like Rap.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:06 AM

At First I thought this thread was a slur on my Secret Santa !!

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Peace
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 09:27 AM

Had ya nervous there for a sec, huh?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 09:24 AM

What kids ?

eric

Subject: For those who hate RAP!
From: dwditty
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 09:23 AM

I understand that RAP goes against the sensibilities of many on here, but a friend recently sent me a CD by the Canadian artist K-OS. Here is somebody rapping positive messages, replete with flamenco guitar, sitar, and, as far as I can tell, no DJ antics of running a record back and forth. I like it alot.

ANother reason to listen to rap/hiphop is to get a good idea of what your kids are up to.

dw