For those who hate RAP!

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 01:37 AM

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 01:25 AM

You get a bazooka with which to nail the next boom car or hummer that passes by...

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 02:41 PM

Oooh! Ooooh! I hate RAP!

What do I get?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 02:34 PM

Wow DW... you are quite a troublemaker aren't you!!! Imagine someone actually wanting to walk a new musical avenue and actually inviting others to explore it too! Shame on you DW.

( snicker )

Rory B at work

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 01:41 PM

You haven't really heard what Rap can be...until you have heard William Shatner do Rap. Indescribably awesome.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: s6k
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 12:38 PM

congratulations martin gibson on your immature responses. Perhaps this just shows that you acknowledge you are wrong, but cannot admit it?

It does not bother me, you may be immature if you wish.

However, the fact will always remain, that you personally do not like rap music, but that has nothing to do with there being some rap artists out there that are very good.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: EagleWing
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 12:30 PM

"'Ee, I am vexed!'.. Stanley Holloway

the UK's premier Rap artist.."

Now that's what I call RAP! Though I prefer
'Arold with an eyeful of 'arrer
on 'is 'orse with 'is 'awk in 'is 'and.

Have that happy new year, Punkfolkagreeablerocker!

Frank L.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkagreeablerocker
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 11:03 AM

apologies accepted all round then..???

i guessed the somewhat childishly daft 'silly person' dig
would be a nicely useable feedline for you..

isn't it all about maintaining a sound sense of good humour
in remote and easily misreadable internet board communications..

and very relevant to this thread,
arguably, the best positive rappers are also funny and astute
social satirists and comedians..
their anger tempered with humour..

QUOTE:

'Ee, I am vexed!'.. Stanley Holloway

the UK's premier Rap artist..

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: EagleWing
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 10:34 AM

An equally good afternoon to you, punkfolkrocker.
Oh there was a mix up about exactly whom you were insulting?
That's why I usually quote either a name or part of the text - so people know who I am replying to.. I got the feeling, though, that at least one other person thought you were referring to Kendal. Please try to make yourself clear, then you won't be misunderstood.

Well, here I go, cutting and pasting again (fully in context as all my quotes have been)
"please calm down and spend more of your time
in threads that make you less excitable..

I dont know how old you are, or the state of your mental health..
but please be aware,
you are continuing to demonstrate that this topic
seems for you to be a trigger for irrationaly fixated obsessive behaviour.."

Well, I'm perfectly calm - I have not seen fit to demonstrate the usual signs of excitement like the continual bad language you use. I simply asked for people to show some tolerance for those they disagree with and you were the one who responded unreasonably. I'm 61 and still in complete control of my faculties - including the ability to communicate without insult.

If replying to your insults in a non-aggressive manner is "irrationaly fixated obsessive behaviour" then so be it. What, I must ask, does it make your replies to me.

That I have taken time to reply to you at all makes me a "silly person", I have no doubt is true - even a very silly person.

However, I'm fascinated, in my silly way, to know how carrying on a two sided conversation makes one of the conversationalists a "stalker". Or is it merely another sign that you cannot cope with people disagreeing with you?

Frank L.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 10:21 AM

cool foxy seminal folk rap track..

Must be Mr Fox;-)

DtG

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 09:33 AM

BTW..EagleWing


please feel free to copy and paste my considered opinion
that you are a "silly person"
any where you like..

now back to that cool foxy seminal folk rap track..

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkconcernedfocker
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 09:23 AM

good morning EagleWing

ok.. i also can copy and paste a quote from myself out of context
[which i will moderately censor for naughty language]



"..what..!!!!??????

what the fo*k are some of you people on..


..or on about..???


i'm one of the good guys.."


please calm down and spend more of your time
in threads that make you less excitable..

I dont know how old you are, or the state of your mental health..
but please be aware,
you are continuing to demonstrate that this topic
seems for you to be a trigger for irrationaly fixated obsessive behaviour..

take care..

[or maybe i should.. i've never had a stalker before..
weird...!!???]


ps.. i merely asked..
i never 'demand'..


besides which..

i was not replying to "From: kendall
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 11:59 AM"

but to "From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 11:53 AM "

it is a merely simple coincidence that kendal posted 2 minutes before me
at 31 Dec 04 - 11:59 AM.. while i was still writing my reply,
clearly targeted, to GUEST 11:53 AM..

well hope thats cleared up then you silly person..

time for a nice mug of tea..
and a quick blast of Dave the gnome's recommended rap track..
conveniently at hand in my nearest pile of CDs...

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Weasel Books
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 09:21 AM

To make sure they're still there....

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 08:39 AM

But why, why, oh why do they squeeze their bollocks all the time?
S:0)

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Weasel Books
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 07:47 AM

I am 21, likes music of all sorts, don't care very much for rap. Ok, some of it is good, most is abysmal, but it's not my thing. I do like to understand what it's about though. A few of my mates (Ethiopian) are rappers, who don't like most of what I listen to, but still respect different opinions.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: EagleWing
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 06:23 AM

punkfolkplacidrocker demanded:
"please re-read this entire thread carefully and note
that i only start from, and try to remain in,
a peacable and concillatory
neutral corner of the ring.."
He also accused me of singling him out for "hazily focused invective.."

OK - I've just re-read all my own posts on this thread and ask punkfolkplacidrocker to do the same and then to quote to me, verbatim, all the instances of invective, however focused, that he can find in them - whether aimed at him or anyone else.

Before I entered this discussion, Punkfolkrocker had already used such expressions as

"those supercilious diletante classical musician folkies
that stretch my tolerance levels.."

"..sounds like you're well over 40
and down to your last failing brain cell.."

"highly dubious intolerant supremacist characters
who take pround refuge in their version of its shadily retrogressive
traditionalist agenda
and inward looking social sub-culture.."

My own first contribution came after his insulting attack on Kendal - a man who I have had the pleasure of meeting (though only once). Kendal simply stated that "Rap is to music what graffiti is to literature." Hardly invective! And certainly not deserving of punk...'s "down to your last failing brain cell..". This was where I came in because, you see, I hadn't realised that this remark to Kendal was meant to be "a peacable and concillatory neutral corner of the ring.."

punk... also says "you are the one who brought an unneccessary 'fight' to me..
at an indecently late UK time of New years morning
when i was more than adequately wassailed on the SPIRITs
of new years celebration..
so dont be so surprised that my exasperated response
was expressed in a less than sober manner.."

Perhaps he was actually too well wassailed to have read my post accurately. I'm assuming, from he has written since, that the unnamed Guest I quoted was indeed he. In his direct reply to my pleas for tolerance to those he disagreed with I mentioned punk... simply because I was answering his attacks on other people. It seemed to me then (and he has confirmed it since) that people who had a different opinion from his own would be attacked by him. I pointed out that to question someone's intelligence for simply saying he didn't like RAP was, perhaps, not a very intelligent thing to do. He saw that as "invective" while his own insults were "peaceful and concilliatry".

Unfortunately, since that time, people on both sides of the argument seem to have felt the necessity for simply hurling insults. I have never said that RAP was either "C**p" nor "s**t". I simply don't find it has the same effect on me as a good piece of folk, trad jazz or classical music.

Once again I simply say, let's discuss the music without insulting those we disagree with.

Frank L

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: jacqui.c
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 03:57 AM

This is an exercise in futility. Yelling our opinions at each other is stupid; I'm outta here.
Kendall, not Jacqui

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: dwditty
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:20 PM

Why, Martin, how positively unfolk-like!

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 09:30 PM

s6k

I live in an urban area and have teenagers in the house.

I have heard all of these artists.

They suck.

So do you.

Get your fucking hearing checked.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkplacidrocker
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 09:21 PM

hello EagleWing ..

please re-read this entire thread carefully and note
that i only start from, and try to remain in,
a peacable and concillatory
neutral corner of the ring..

until either confronted by statements of such astonishing conservative ignorance
that i find it necessary to make the least undiplomatic comment
i can manage under the circumstances..


or called out by my name and challenged by anothers belligerent
insult or confused misreading of my objections/objective..

also bear in mind you came here singling me out
for your hazily focused invective..

you are the one who brought an unneccessary 'fight' to me..
at an indecently late UK time of New years morning
when i was more than adequately wassailed on the SPIRITs
of new years celebration..
so dont be so surprised that my exasperated response
was expressed in a less than sober manner..


i honestly dont care if you like rap or not..
..and if you really are'nt 'racist' to even the smallest degree
of unconcious hostility to other cultures.. Great!!!!

but face up to the fact that you ARE one of the individuals
who only came here to rant in an negatively,
irrational, ill considered..
and sustained over reaction..

whats your problem..!!??

what was your personal oversensitive need and motivation
to come here and expose your continuing apparent insecurites
to public scrutiny..???????



..i'm sure all dwditty wanted to do
was bring the name of a positive rap artist
to the attention of any mudcatters
who might be positivly interested..

thats all..

but this thread certainly seems to have 'incited'
some odd reactions from less rational representitives
of the folk community...

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: dwditty
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 07:40 PM

Umm, btw, has anyone gone over to www.k-osmusic.com to give a listen to this guy?

Thought so.

dw

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: EagleWing
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 06:53 PM

S6K says "Again, this is because the poster knows nothing about the genre. artists such as Run DMC, Public Enemy, etc, have MUCH depth. Chuck D is a genius, no matter what your opinion on rap music is."

No, I don't think so. I think the afore-mentioned poster finds what he has heard of the genre to be monotonous and lacking in depth because all the RAP he has heard has been monotonous and lacking in depth. Are you suggesting that in order to make such an observation he must listen to every rap recording ever made until he finds one he likes? As you, yourself, have suggested he is entitled to his opinion and to express it. Kendon has not once made accusations about singers or other peoples' opinions. All he has done is stated his opinion. Perhaps it might be suggested that you have no right to criticise him until you have read War and Peace (and the rest of Tolstoy)and listened to every classical recording ever made. Yes, I know it's a stupid suggestion but it makes as much sense as your claim above.

Frank L.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: EagleWing
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 06:40 PM

Willie O said,
"Just for the record, I stand by my remarks. Please note I used a qualifier, I never said that anyone who says they hate rap is a racist.

But there is a rather short step between xenophobia and racism.

Think about it."

Well, I'm thinking about it. Xenophbia is fear of foreigners or foreign places. Who's shown that they are afraid of either?

(Not that I agree with the references to no good black singers - I'm not sufficiently up with the scene and can't even say that I know how many good contemporary white singers there are.)

Frank E.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: EagleWing
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 06:32 PM

Yesterday, S6K said "Also, for most of the rest of you, music is universal, people have a right to like what they want, they dont just have to like folk and listen only to folk. music is supposed to unite us not make us have petty arguments!"

You obviously haven't been following the argument too closely. Those who don't like RAP, on the whole, have simply said they don't like RAP. It's those who DO like RAP that have felt the need to insult and swear at those with whom they disagree. Look for all the posts that contain the word "f**k", for instance - all used against those who simply say they don't like RAP. And I was greeted with

"EagleWing ....

what..!!!!??????

what the f*ck are some of you people on..


..or on about..???"

Simply because I said, as you have, that people have a right to their opinions.

Frank L.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 06:16 PM

I don't like (most) rap. I think some of it is actually good, though. But I don't listen to it enough to have more than a fragmentary awareness of what's available out there. I mostly hear it emanating from "boom cars" as they go by, killing small animals with the base frequencies...

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 06:12 PM

100 ????

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: s6k
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 06:05 PM

"yeah, about as much depth as a crack in the sidewalk.
Rap is complete shit."

This only goes to prove your ignorance. Tell me, how much do you know of rap music, and how many artists have you listened to? 1 maybe 2 ?

Your comment is an opinion. You have every right to think that rap is shit, and the majority of the modern stuff is.
You have no right however to make an analysis on a genre that you obviously know nothing about. Seeing as this is the case, why then do you think that just because you dislike the genre, that there can be no credible artists?

I think country music is shit, but i respect the fact that there are certain artists in that genre that are geniuses and innovators.

If you dislike rap, fine, go ahead and say that, and then leave it at that. Do not go on to try and make out that there is not a single rap artist who was ever influencial or innovative.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 06:03 PM

I can't help out on this one...

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 03:54 PM

Does anyone know? Will they share the secret with Jacqui and me?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 03:05 PM

Perhaps, but what does that have to do with rap sucking the big strap-on dildo?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,One who Knows
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:52 PM

Elvis sucks and so do those who try so hard to sound like him.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:41 PM

yeah, about as much depth as a crack in the sidewalk.

Rap is complete shit.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: s6k
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:28 PM

neither do Run DMC or Public Enemy. Like I said, you cannot tar the entire genre with the same brush.

"Age has nothing to do with it. I find rap to be monotonous and lacking in depth"

Again, this is because the poster knows nothing about the genre. artists such as Run DMC, Public Enemy, etc, have MUCH depth. Chuck D is a genius, no matter what your opinion on rap music is.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Weasel Books
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:45 AM

I was fairly of the view that rap was pretty pointless, until I heard some Senegalese. Their idea of rap is different, more lyrical, melodic, and they don't go calling their women 'bitch' either.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: dwditty
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:27 AM

L'il help?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: dwditty
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:26 AM

Rats.

(a href="www.k-osmusic.com">Trying again

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: dwditty
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:25 AM

Once again, I was only trying to offer a link to some rap music that I found quite enjoyable...and rap is not even in my top 10 styles of music.

Go to: K-OS and give it a try, if you care to. Click the mouse over at about the center of the graphic to open the listening station. Scroll down to the second album. Try Hallelujah or Commandante. Maybe you will be surprised...maybe not.

I guess I won't even bother to post a link to some Tuvan throat singing...another genre people love to hate. Or Joseph Spence's vocals.

dw

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: John C.
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:23 AM

That is exactly how I feel, Jacqi C. !

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: jacqui.c
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 10:26 AM

Kendall here. Age has nothing to do with it. I find rap to be monotonous and lacking in depth. I felt the same way when I was a teenager about rock and roll.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 08:58 AM

Why keep an open mind? Well for me there's but two reasons. First, I'm not anxious to become any kind of prejudicial bigot, and I kind of like that "do unto others" stuff. Second, I've often found my mind can be changed about music. Banjo music for instance, I love it now where I hated it in my teens and twenties. Other acquired tastes: Pierre Bensusan, even (gasp) opera.

Mind you, the odds aren't great that rap will grab my heart, too monotonal for my liking. I don't care much for that microtonal stuff either...I guess it's the middle of the (tonal) road for me.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: John C.
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 04:51 AM

Oh dear, I can't seem to let this go! I suppose what has really got to me is the accusations of racism from some of the pro-rappers out there. I also note that many of those people also appear to be both explicitly and implicitly ageist (you don't appreciate this particular musical form because you're old).
Leaving aside the question of ageism, all I'm going to say about racism is that I have always opposed it and, like the correspondent above, absolutely refuse to judge a person by the colour of their skin or their ethnic background; I will say no more for fear of being accused of protesting too much.
We members of the 'anti-rap' faction (if we can be characterised as such) are also accused of having closed minds - well please consider the following: my interests are folk song, identifying and photographing wild plants, science fiction and studying the history and cultures of the Balkan region - presumably that makes me a sad (old) git in the eyes of some of the pro-rappers. I can see a sneer forming on your lips as you read this so don't deny it! But don't worry I'm not about to demand that you try any of these things nor am I going to accuse you of having a closed mind if you don't want to try them.
Nevertheless, you may have sampled some of the things listed above and may, as a result, find that you are resolutely opposed to them - that's OK you have every right to do so. Furthermore you're not a 'thought criminal' for speaking out - please grant me the same right!

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 03:53 AM

What is the definition of rap then? Is it the foul mouthed young man in the prison baggies scratching mixes of others music or is it the modern poet quoting clever wordplay over an equaly clever electronic instrumentation? Surely, like folk, we are trying to define the undefinable.

BTW try getting hold of Mr Fox's 'Aunt Lucy Broadwood'. 1970's Folk act groundbreaking rap record? Surely not;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:34 AM

pdq, to "pull up alongside me" with ANY music BLARING, does not show good taste, only lack of manners, and a questionable I.Q.

I remember when rock and roll first hit the scene; I didn't like it then, and I detest it now so it's highly unlikely that more exposure to that type of air pollution will cause me to change my mind.That is my opinion, and no one has a right to question my IQ because of it.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:21 AM

But still no-one's answered the Big Question posed by Jacqui. Why do they hold their meat-and-two-veg all the time? Is is the funky groovy street modern version of the finger in the ear? LOL!
S:0)

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: s6k
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 10:04 PM

There is a big problem that people have between not liking an artist, and whether the artist is good or not.

I do not like mozart, but the man is a genius.
I do not care much for Richard Thompson, however, I love folk music, and Thompson is also a genius. I can acknowledge this without particularly liking each persons work.

This is where people end up going wrong. They don't like rap, so every rap artist is crap. this is incorrect. If you dont like them, thats fine and is your opinion, but you cannot say they are crap.

I personally dont even like rap that much, there are maybe 3 or 4 artists who i quite like, but i know there are several who have made spectacular music with the genre.

I would also point out that I dont believe there has been a credible rap artist in the last 10 years, rap seems to have evolved into something hideous... like pop music. The majority of rap artists today shouldnt even be allowed to call themselves rap artists, and they are the equivalent of westlife in the pop world. This does not help the genre and spawns many comments like "all rappers rap about is homophobia and killing people" which has been seen in this thread.
The comment is untrue, and it is only because of modern rap that people think this.

But there are great artists out there in rap, and you all have every right to not like rap, and not seek out these artists, but you should all recognise that they are there, and not everyone in the genre is C-Rap

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,Pa Hillbilly..
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 08:22 PM

yep.. they'm all crawling out the vittle garden on this hot arguementing..

ma.. get the shotgun..

that darn blasted grizzly bear is clambering in the window
to steal my new groovacious mo' fo' Dr Dre CD..

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolksensitiverocker
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 08:16 PM

.. 2nd or 3rd day into the new year..

and i surely cant be the only one here who senses a lot of confusion
and unchilled vibes on this topic..????

happy new 2006... and at least 200 years forward into the future..

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolk and a little bit of rap rocker
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 08:12 PM

Auggie..

"Why must we "keep an open mind"?"

errrmmm..???


sorry Auggie for being slightly sarcastic..

its born out of bemusement more than any need to be unfriendly
to anybody here..

but i genuinely dont understand much
of what you are hoping to add to this discussion..



but i somehow still get the feeling you might be one of the good guys
on this issue..

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: pdq
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 07:36 PM

When was the last time somebody in a black-out, lowrider Chebby pulled up beside you and blasted out Brahms at 122dB?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Bloke in the Corner
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 07:02 PM

Excellent! Good to see real feelings and passion for different types of music. To carry on a bit, what does everyone feel about the undeniable fact that much of rap, apart from the venal and misogynistic mature of many of the songs, portrays pretty much EVERY male rap star as having a (potentially) violent attitude, and holds this up as in some way laudable? Far too many young working class (Yes, just like I grew up!) males, black and white, are given an absurd view of the world, where parroting out the songs and wearing hoodies etc. will in some way replace the need to work in the real world. The rap life (Hope you see what I mean!) is not a valid long term one for the average kid on the street.I'm tempted to say it betrays working class people, almost as if it were planned to keep them in their place by denying them chance to improve their lot.... Too much to say in one post.