Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 05:39 PM

A Reply, (albeit a few days late)
Nick..Please do send your thoughts to Verity.
Just E Mail [e-mail] will do.
I can concur that she is on the same side as us little people
Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: GUEST,The Beast of Farlington
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 05:07 PM

Who said what and when and to whom, replayed to PRS (free, of course) might help clear this up....

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 11:58 AM

Similarly for The Sun in Beverley - our landlord was billed for and has paid for our sessions all of which are free entry with no artists being paid to perform. He paid roughly £600 for the sessions and a similar amount for the mechanicals.

Roger

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 11:00 AM

"checked with PRS about our monthly informal sessions, where
there's no admission charge to locals, neither are the musicians paid
PRS were definite that they do not regard this as a chargeable event.
There's been a lot of disinformation about sessions. I hope this
information clears up a few worries"

Very interesting because PRS gave the Blackmsiths Arms at Farlington a slightly different reply. We had the same kind of session (no admission fee, no paid artists) and were quoted a similar amount as a chargeable event. It doesn't really clear up the worry if they are telling different people different stories.

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 03:30 AM

The following posted on uk.music folk

The landlord of The Alma Inn, Cottonstones, Sowerby Bridge, West Yorks, where we hold our monthly folk club & monthly sessions received his PRS bill recently & needed my help to sort it out. As a PRS member I was happy to do so & pointed out that most of his £631.45 bill was to cover piped music in the bar & restaurant. The bill for our folk club nights (capacity 60, but covers up to 100) is £7.27 per night & we'll pay this for him.

I checked with PRS about our monthly informal sessions, where
there's no admission charge to locals, neither are the musicians paid
PRS were definite that they do not regard this as a chargeable event.
There's been a lot of disinformation about sessions. I hope this
information clears up a few worries.

It is ironic, however, that the landlord deems piped music essential to his existing customers already on the premises & our folk club is paying a nominal PRS charge for him & bringing in new customers.
--
Pete Coe

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:34 PM

Oh Yes !! And 2oo !!

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:33 PM

Could this be the start of a pruning exercise ?? Close down and sell off pubs that are not self supporting to get some cash in for some other investment ??

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:00 PM

Yesterday at our Sunday session in The Sun we decided to run the next week in The Sun also - it should have gone back to Nellies for that week but everyone was pessimistic about whether that was possible or not and we thought it better to play safe.

so, Sunday 30th in The Sun and the following "first Sunday of the month session" in the Monk's as usual.

Rog

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Nick
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 11:45 AM

No - I emailed them last week to chivvy them along. Perhaps the recent publicity has put them off. I'll chase them again this week

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 05:02 AM

Nick is there any sign yet - of that promised detailed reply from PRS/PPL etc?

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 05:47 PM

Link to the Yorkshire Post.

http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=1084&ArticleID=923277

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: BB
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 04:59 PM

Alice, according to Mick Haywood, Whitby FC were told that they should just carry on singing as normal until things could hopefully be sorted out. However, they cannot now charge entrance, run a raffle or raise any money whatsoever. Consequently, guests have been cancelled.

Guest Chris, as a professional, I don't have a problem with PRS charging pubs, particularly where someone is getting paid to perform (I should say that we are not members of PRS, therefore get nothing from them, nor do we sing much that PRS could claim for as most of our material is traditional, although if we were members we could claim for our arrangements). Other people should not be able to make money out of composed songs or specific arrangements. However, I don't believe this should apply to sessions or floor singers who are not getting paid. I fear that there are a number of songs that would never have been taken up and made money for their authors unless they had first been sung in those circumstances. Having said that, if many other pub chains start going the way of Sam Smith's then, yes, many of us are going to have severe problems getting work. But I think it's unfair to blame PRS for that - they have, in fact, improved matters for their lowlier members through the Small Gigs Scheme, which means that all the money doesn't now go to the likes of Elton John or Paul McCartney. But if they increase the fees too much, they could indeed kill the goose that laid the golden egg, and none of us will benefit.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Nick
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 03:52 PM

Mostly managed.

Not sure if the tenanted pubs have been affected, though there are one or two in the area so easy to find out.

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Blowzabella
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 01:02 PM

Does anyone know if Sam Smiths pubs are tenanted or managed, or a mixture of both? Managers will, presumably, carry on getting thier salary, whatever the takings - if tenants are affected, they will presumably be looking to have their rents reduced, because of reduced takings and the loss of custom, due to a management policy - possibly retrospectively - another loss of income to Sam Smiths.

Like the rest of you - I can't understand the whys and wherefores of this decision. I know there is a minority of people who go looking for the 'quiet pint' pubs, but since when have breweries catered to the minority?

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Nick
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 12:18 PM

I posted this on the White Horse thread but it also seems relevant here:

My son plays football on a Saturday and we go into a Sams pub after for chips and beer etc

The manager there is still waiting for a response to a letter to the chairman from December-ish about the TV/music policy- this is an internal company thing not an external thing - just querying the decision and pointing out the effects on trade.

He reckons it has hit his pub since day one - especially the TV going. New Years Eve he shut at 11.15 and the takings were down £1000+ over last year.

This is weird behaviour, when you ignore your customers BUT even more so when you totally ignore your staff and refuse to even acknowledge the letter or give any reason for behaviour that directly hits the management of the pubs. Shit will hit fan at bonus time apparently (another saving perhaps?). Quite a lot of vacancies around at the moment I believe and more coming soon...

I'm going to post this onto the Sams thread also. Sam Smiths may be a total red herring in the general licensing thing (sometimes people just genuinely lose the plot and the action itself takes over and power becomes the driving force) - I do take Shambles point that when we all go off to our new venues - what happens next?

From my end I only wanted our little group to survive and it has, albeit not in its original place (but there are some signs that it might be better, could be honeymoon). The players and the (not) folk club from Nellies will also survive and hopefully flourish.

What does a normal person in the street like me do next?

Life is back on an even(ish) keel. Sams appear to be the losers - and, to be honest, I can live with that.

Perhaps we need a new thread (or a permanent one) - I'm not sure how you put it pithily - of "What can everyday folk do to preserve what we have/want given the external pressures that now bear on venues?"

And secondly is it really a threat? I say that only because I poo-poo'd things a while back and didn't think anything could affect our little world in Farlington. I'm sure at Nellies it's even more incomprehensible. So if it can happen to us - what do we do?

Or do I return to my normal 'won't happen here, not my problem' mode?

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 05:42 PM

given that the BBC is still a public service, I think maybe I am entitled to offer a critiscm or two -or is this a fascist state where the media and the politicians can do and say want they please without comment -is it b*****ks! I am just about to upset the Daily Mirror and it isn't even Monday yet! Sorry Blowzabella, my tippytoeing days are long gone!

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Pistachio
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 05:42 AM

Linda, I do hope it's not me and thee that they're referring to!
See you (fully clothed) at 'the Forresters' H.

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 08:33 PM

To be fair - when the media coverage is accurate (and not just favourable) there is recognition of this. Credit for good work is usually given where it is due. There is little point in fearing to comment on or encouraging a past poor standard of coverage - as this will only ensure a future poor standard of coverage.   

For although we may say that we don't mind positve criticism - if we are honest - most of us don't like any criticism at all! But that does not mean that we do not pay attention to it - and bloody minded as we are - do not try not to lay ourselves open to it again - even members of the media. Who like to think they have the last word - but in reality do not have this - nor nearly as much power and influence as they like to think they have...

As for ladies having to be naked --- it is January! A little clothing is surely permitted and our media do so love words like 'scanty'.

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Blowzabella
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 08:05 PM

You could equally argue it Shambles, but it wouldn't get you air time...

Naked girls, on the other hand, might....

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 07:54 PM

You could equally argue that if to do not want your editorial policy criticised - you should have covered the item better in the first place. Doing things better is one way that we can all possibly be free from citicism - even the media.

But in all truth - if the story is news - it will get coverage. From my experience the only problem comes in having unrealistic expectations of the media. They are just doing their job - and if they manage to spell your name correctly - in is a bonus......All publicity for your cause - is good publicity.

Whatever criticism is made of their past coverage - all you need to do is to get some attractive and scantilly clad young ladies to dance around the pub - and the media will fall over themselves to cover your protest - even those from the radio.............

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Blowzabella
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 07:21 PM

Ouch - just a word of advice from someone whose job involves pr - if you want (or think you might want) the media on your side, either now, or in the future, suggest don't criticize their editorial policy. Specially not for something which has been and gone. The programme has gone out - you can't do anything about that particular programme any more - what you can do is not get their backs up so that they are disinclined to promote your cause in the future....

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 05:49 PM

if you put Sam Smiths in Google you will ge virtually a whole page proclaiming Sam Smith bans live music - excellent!

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: GUEST,Linda Kelly
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 02:20 PM

Perhaps your right Nick, we have loads more adverse publicity to stir up first-who's organising the T Shirts? by the way i have contacted Look North tday questioning te editoral decision to allow Nellie less than a minute and some florist in Spalding who cant put her bunches out on the pavement, about five. It a bit of an uphill struggle at times isn't it?

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Nick
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 12:25 PM

I watched 'The Culture Show' last night on BBC2 which had a piece about folk music. In the bit I saw, it compared 'English' folk and 'Scottish' folk and suggested that Scottish folk music was much more a part of the heritage and culture etc etc From the english side they had Billy Bragg and Eliza Carthy + band discussing

One of the points that was made about the strength of the Scottish folk scene was that 'it was always there in the pubs' and it then came more to prominence as devolution happened and became increasingly linked to the pride that Scots have in their heritage and culture. When they chatted to Eliza and co where did they play and talk? In a pub, of course. They also talked about 'a folk revival' etc etc

Where are these people going to play? Where are the next generation going to even think about playing?

Apart from going occasionally to Pocklington Arts Centre to see the likes of Eliza, Fairport, Kate Rusby etc I see, do and hear all the music in pubs - including some fantastic people (saw Amanda & Jane Threlfall & Co in Mickleby the other week for example).

Do you reckon that we could get some more publicity by attempting to gain the help of some of these better known people - most of whom I would guess have played in smaller venues as they were on the way up. They may, of course, already be involved. Celebrities are likely to pull a lot more media interest than people like me.

Whether or not the Samuel Smiths thing ever sorts the way we would like it, there is very little awareness of these issues generally I would guess. A little more awareness would do no harm at all. Perhaps some people here know (or are!) some of these famous people - who knows?

In addition do people here have links to jazz, pop etc music which is also going to be affected. There must be lots of pubs on the 1960's/1970's "cover-the-singles" circuit who are also potentially at risk?

I have thought of writing to Verity Sharp at the Culture Show as she seemed quite a mean fiddler herself to see if there is potential for them to further look at the area - if we are currently in a folk revival it would be nice to think there was somewhere it could be revived to.

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 11:25 AM

In the evening paper yesterday they were advertising a comedy club starting up in Nellies on a Wednesday night - doesn't that count as entertainmant then?

Rog

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Doktor Doktor
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 09:51 AM

The dear old lad's making a lot of noise for one who dislikes singing - I hear that news of his innovative business approach has been noted in the City. Personally, I'd find that a tad worrying .....

PS - look up the words to "Three Halfpence per Foot".

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: GUEST,Pete Fletcher
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 09:46 AM

Following Sam Smiths decision to stop all music in their pubs, White
Horse FC will have to move after almost 30 years.
From Monday 24th Jan till at least Feb 21st we will meet at.

THE FORESTERS ARMS, BECKSIDE, BEVERLEY

We have arranged to stay there until at least Feb 21st (Tim Van Eyken gig) As a trial period.

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: pavane
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 09:36 AM

So even the BBC is confused over spelling!

See the quote below!

"The other license is the PPL licence.."

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 09:33 AM

It is strange to me that Humphrey Smith's reaction to publicity is to accelerate his progamme of stopping music - the brewery took the odd step of phoning the organiser direct and telling him. Nellies still have things organised so he is no longer even honouring bookings. That's toys out of the pram stuff.

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 09:30 AM

This BBC site will explain what PRS and PPL are.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/onemusic/management/prsp01.shtml

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 09:23 AM

It probably is restraint of trade but in this case the landlord works for the brewery so they are only restraining their own trade. Quite why they want to do that escapes me!

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 09:06 AM

"The Landlord now has his hands tied - the brewery are telling him to make money but are not letting him provide what his customers want. he has asked to be allowed to open all Saturday afternoon because a group of his punters would like that. But no, he's not allowed to do that either!"

Isn't that restraint of trade?

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 08:59 AM

For the full details of the Government's new Licensing charges that Eric mentioned - see -

http://tinyurl.com/3q26k

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: GUEST,Chris
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 08:49 AM

I wonder what 'professional' musicians feel about the PRS's actions and enforcement,(an organisation,supposedly, working on their behalf) is there a possibility that this situation is going to lose them income in the end. it maybe that 'profesionals' who draw their income fom the 'folk clubs' ought to be looking at this situation and wondering where their income is going to come from in the future -no clubs =no audience, no audience= no CD prchasers, no clubs = no WORK?????????
chris

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 07:23 AM

It does seem a little ironic - that at a time when obtaining official licensing permission is set to cost no extra (next month) - that Sam Smiths (and possibly many others) are deciding (on financial grounds) not to provide any..............

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 07:19 AM

Whitby Folk Club held their weekly club night at the Plough, last night(wednesday)they,ve just been carrying on as normal,keeping their heads down and trying not to rock the boat,just sitting tight until the proverbial sh** hits the fan.I understand they,ve had no official notice to cease functioning yet, but The White Horse Folk Club organiser has received a phone call from the Brewery and told to stop forwith. It seems Humphrey Smith has blown a fuse at all the adverse publicity.

Not that I advocate this as a way to solve anything - but it will be difficult for Whitby Folk Club (unless they change venues) 'to keep their heads stuck in the sand' - if folk post here to tell all-and-sundry- that such events are happening. However, one possible explanation is that it could well be that the current PRS/PPL licenses are still covering some of Sam Smith's pubs.

If - as we are given to understand - that this move was a protest at the increased PRS/PPL etc fees for 2006 - publicity is what they were seeking - and no publicity is bad publicity - or so they say. But perhaps as most of this seems to be directed to them (and not toward the bodies responsible for the increased fees) they would now be more prepared for a more selective protest - one that the public and their customers would support?

Under the new system the largest city or town centre pubs will pay a £1,905 initial application fee and an annual fee of £1,050 to the local authority - before it was £30 every three years to the magistrates to serve alcohol until 11pm at night regardless of venue size.

Despite our Government's claims that the Act will provide more opportunity for live music, it must now be clear to everyone, that with this size of increase in general pub running costs in an increasingly competitive market place - that somthing is going to have to go. It is rather unlikely that many musicians are going to be paid - in addition to this overall increase - so it will be live music that will suffer.

And the last thing needed is for PRS/PPL etc to increase their fees as well. I feel that is time for us all to press our MPs etc to demand the promised review of the effects on the Licensing Act 2003 on live music. There is little point in us waiting until there is none......

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 07:00 AM

Added to which, the government is going to be expecting some city centre pubs to contribute to the cost of policing longer drinking hours.

By that token, in Farlington the police should be paying US.

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: ET
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 06:39 AM

What will Humphrey and others make of the latest government switch - fees for licensed premises. I quote

Under the new system the largest city or town centre pubs will pay a £1,905 initial application fee and an annual fee of £1,050 to the local authority - before it was £30 every three years to the magistrates to serve alcohol until 11pm at night regardless of venue size.

The initial rules limited the fee to £500 as a one off for 10 years! More stealth tax.

The fee includes all "entertainment" including music.

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 06:24 AM

Raggy

Yes, you are right that we are only a small part of his customer base.

In Farlington, the TV that was removed was very small and unobtrusive but was greatly enjoyed by the racing syndicate that met there on Saturday afternoons (there are no less than 4 race horse training stables within a four mile radius. As The Blacksmiths Arms is a very small pub in a very small village (pop: 130) which is quite out of the way both the folkies and the racing punters together form a substantial part of the customer base. It is not somewhere that attracts passing trade, you make the effort to go there. Now, it is like the Marie Celeste with very few people going at all.

The Landlord now has his hands tied - the brewery are telling him to make money but are not letting him provide what his customers want. he has asked to be allowed to open all Saturday afternoon because a group of his punters would like that. But no, he's not allowed to do that either!

The Blacksmith's is but one pub in the equation so the impact on it is disproportionate. I fear that Sam's might close it rather than develop it although it has lost money for years (until the last two years.

Removing the tellys could be the straw that breaks the camel's back!

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 06:11 AM

Well said Beast, attacking someone is always counterproductive, Humphrey as you rightly say will just dig his heels in at the "plebs" who are causing so much bother.
When his revenue dips (as I suspect it will, dramatically) he might reconsider.
However please bear in mind that we, that is folkies, are only a small part of his revenue base, by far the larger part are those people who actually like and want big screen TV's jukeboxes etc. Now whether they have co-ordinated a group to write to Humphrey is debatable and possibly unlikely but it is possible that we will see the return of these items that some of us would happily do without, as they do sadly provide a wider customer base

Raggy

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 05:21 AM

"By the way, can someone please let me know when we can stop being diplomatically nice to Humphrey Smith, then we can ask John from Hull to send his letter"

It might make us feel better but it is extremely unlikely to help the situation and far more likely to harm it. Despite how we feel, Mr Smith is entitled to take this action. He is even more likely to feel he is right if he can demonise those who disagree with him because they have attacked him personally and/or publicly.

Let's just keep the adverse publicity going!

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 05:33 PM

well what comes around goes around, Nellies has very happy memories for me at both the packed Sunday sessions, the packed folk club and the packed weekend at Folk festival time. Sometimes you don,t miss somthing until its gone. Cottingham Live was unceremoniusly booted out of the King Billy in Cottingham because the new owners thought a bistro style bar and wide screen television would draw more customers in, even though we had more people in the folk club than in the rest of the pub put together. following the failure of this, we've notice that they've introduced live music to attract the punters back - plus ca change! By the way, can someone please let me know when we can stop being diplomatically nice to Humphrey Smith, then we can ask John from Hull to send his letter. All hail Shaun at the Sun!

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: GUEST,Erstwhile Nellies Patron
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 04:01 PM

I bet Humphrey would like to sack all his customers

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: alice white
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 03:55 PM

Whitby Folk Club held their weekly club night at the Plough, last night(wednesday)they,ve just been carrying on as normal,keeping their heads down and trying not to rock the boat,just sitting tight until the proverbial sh** hits the fan.I understand they,ve had no official notice to cease functioning yet, but The White Horse Folk Club organiser has received a phone call from the Brewery and told to stop forwith. It seems Humphrey Smith has blown a fuse at all the adverse publicity.

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: GUEST,andy in the attic
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 11:33 AM

GM
Are you besmirching my identity as you well know I am currently preocuppied with the attic

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: GUEST,Andy in the Shed
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 10:57 AM

Thank goodness for small mercies.
Pooms and the kiss of death

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: GUEST,Phil Stein
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 10:22 AM

Does this mean no more poets at Nellies MMMM £1.27 a pint

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 08:57 AM

There have been many recent ones written in the style too - see monologues.co.uk

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: pavane
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 08:17 AM

Only if still in copyright, which that one probably is.

The author, Marriott Edgar, wrote quite a number of these, and they seem to date from the 1920's or 30's, but it is difficult to find out when they were first published. Albert and the Lion seems to be from 1932.

Subject: RE: Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 07:26 AM

After all that, I forgot the point that I started on!    My understanding is that the remit of the PRS is to 'protect' all performance rights, not just those to do with music. "Three 'appence a foot" is such a work and so arguably the PRS could still demand a fee for it, even though it is not music.