What are the oldest surviving tunes?

Subject: RE: What are the oldest surviving tunes?
From: Artful Codger
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 06:25 AM

Here's some information culled from Gardner Read's classic text Music Notation: A Manual of Modern Practice (1969), which begins with an overview of the history of Western musical notation:

Nearly 3000 years ago, Greeks employed at least one system of letter notation, letters corresponding to scale notes (including octave distinctions.) In the Pre-Christian era, there were four such systems (that we know of) in use. Changing the orientation of the letters indicated raising or lowering the notes, as with our sharps and flats. Duration was sometimes indicated by signs used in conjunction with the notes.

Around the middle of the 4th c. CE these systems contained over 1600 different signs, symbols and letter forms. They used one system (based on Ionian letters) for vocal music, another (based on Phoenecian letters) for instrumental music.

A 6th c. Italian monk, Boethius devised a similar system using Latin letters, but his system did not gain any widespread use.

The neumes of Gregorian chant first came into being in the 6th century. They were based on the acutus and gravis of Greek prosody, indicating rising and falling inflection. Initially, only relative, rather than precise, pitches were notated, with no durations indicated.

A (six-lined) staff appeared in a 9th c. theoretical tract, Musica Enchiriadis, which also gave examples of early polyphony, mostly in parallel organum. However, the system used words placed between the staff lines, rather than neumes, to indicate pitch.

Fixed pitch using the neume system and a single staff line (F) appeared in the 10th c. The various neumes were placed at their relative pitch distances above and below the staff line. Soon after, a second line (C) was added above, to allow more precise placement of the higher notes.

More lines were added, as demanded by the music, until Guido d'Arezzo standardized and popularized a four line staff in the 12th c. While we owe him a great debt for this, his only innovation was to introduce the scale syllables (ut re me fa sol...), after noticing that six successive lines of a Sapphic hymn to St. John the Baptist began on each successive note of the scale. He named the pitches according to these first syllables, which made it much easier for him to teach chants to even young students. Read doesn't describe how d'Arezzo handled the seventh scale pitch, which was not named si (ti in Germany) until several centuries later. He does say, however, that si was supposedly derived from the initial letters of Sancte Iohannes (St. John).

The flat and natural sign (a rounded and squared b respectively) arose about the 11th c., with the sharp and other accidentals appearing later still.

The problem of notating durations and rests, as required for coordinating more sophisticated polyphony, did not begin to be adequately addressed in a consistent way until the 13th c.

I have read elsewhere that the Egyptians did indeed have a system of musical notation that predated even the Greek systems, but few details of it were given in that source (which I no longer recall.)

Cheers!

Subject: RE: What are the oldest surviving tunes?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 07:50 AM

(Puts fingers in ears)

La la la, la la la, la la la...

Subject: RE: What are the oldest surviving tunes?
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 12:10 PM

I still hold that, before any of that other stuff could happen there were people (prob. mostly women) holding and rocking babies and chanting/humming/singing to them. Lullaby will probably turn out to be oldest.(IMnotalwaysHO)                Tw

Subject: RE: What are the oldest surviving tunes?
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 10:46 AM

what evidence is ther of ancient Egytian music?
I know that the Song of Solomon may be on the right track but I would love something that would reveal a true Egyptian song.

Subject: RE: What are the oldest surviving tunes?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 12:35 PM

It's gettig too serious.
Here are 2 English speaking old songs: Barbara Allen and Two Sisters.

Subject: RE: What are the oldest surviving tunes?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 01:17 PM

Adm bit my apple
Adam bit my apple
Adam bit my apple
Blame it on the serpent.

Eve you took the first bite
Eve you took the firsat bite
Eve you took the first bite
Then you misled me!

Subject: RE: What are the oldest surviving tunes?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 01:28 PM

Forget the old Egyptian stuff. The papryii have no musical scores.
Try some good modern Egyptian musicians.
Suggestion: Jazayer plus Ali Jihad Racy (Live), cd from Warners.
Amazon says it ranks 526102 in sales- if it is ranked that low, it is bound to be good!
Racy plays the Lebanese buzuk, a stringed instrument cf. bouzouki.

Subject: RE: What are the oldest surviving tunes?
From: GUEST,donuel
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 02:39 PM

Modern is nice but I am composing a score called the Religions of Earth. After the opening theme of oohm and log music and tribal sections, a bona fide Egyptian part is crucial since it leads into Hebrew music and western themes before exploring Asian styles before returning back to oohm.

One can easily assume that Egyptian music and the songs of Solomon share similarities but it is the weakest link regarding actual musical styles in the whole piece.

Subject: RE: What are the oldest surviving tunes?
From: Slag
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:28 PM

I think it was something like "Hit the Road, Adam and don't cha come back, no more, no more..."

Subject: RE: What are the oldest surviving tunes?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:37 PM

"Bona fide"? not available unless you are a time traveler. Some of the late Egyptian stuff (ca. Cleopatra's time) would have Greek and Roman influences.