BS: Irony of Tsunami Relief

Subject: RE: BS: Irony of Tsunami Relief
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 04:29 PM

So why not take a couple of minutes and a small amount of effort, Raedwolf and Giok, and Google it for yourselves instead of just "wondering out loud"?

Subject: RE: BS: Irony of Tsunami Relief
From: Raedwulf
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 04:16 PM

Anonynous, cowardly, Guest 12:23 - what "hatred of the Arab world" from Giok?

I'd say he was a humanist - he still sent money to the appeal. What did you do?

Since Giok has raised the question, I'm also inclined to wonder what Qaddaffi/Libya has contributed. Not because I'm anti-Arab, but because Qaddaffi has made such a point over the the years of being so vehemently Muslim/I'm-oppressed-by-America style of thing. Power politics? Suuuuuurely not....

Subject: RE: BS: Irony of Tsunami Relief
From: dianavan
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 03:02 PM

I don't know if should be considered irony but the Thai princess (along with 16 escorts) just arrived in Vancouver to do a little business and check on her million dollar home which has been restored after a fire. She has to sign some insurance papers apparently. She will also be staying in Whistler for a few days of skiing.

Seems a bit odd that we are sending our hard earned bucks to Thailand while the princess gads about.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't be helping the people because we should. Its just that it seems insensitive and downright ignorant of the Royals.

Subject: RE: BS: Irony of Tsunami Reliev
From: GUEST,Giok
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 01:11 PM

Guest at 12:23 I hazard you are American and therefore don't do irony :~)
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Irony of Tsunami Reliev
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 01:04 PM

That last post was me.

Subject: RE: BS: Irony of Tsunami Reliev
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 01:03 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Irony of Tsunami Reliev
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 01:02 PM

Where on earth did NH Dave get that about Tamils being "an upstart Muslim group"? In fact there are about 70 million Tamils, mostly living in India. Most of these follow a variety of Hinduism, with a minitity being Chruistian or Muslim.

Three million or so Tamils (mostly Hindu) live in Sri Lanka, where there has been conflict with the predominantly Buddhist Sri Lankan population and government for years.

It woudl ahve taken NH Dave only a few seconds to check and correect his   comment there. This would of course have slightly undermined his anti-Muslim remarks, but on the other hand when we get a basic fact like that wrong we effectively destroy the credibility of anything we write anyway.

One thing to remember about the Middle East - where the countries are wealthy, that wealth is in the hands of a small minority of wealthy people. Wealthy people in general everywhere are mean people - that's why they remain wealthy in a world full of poverty. Generosity isn't measured by how much we give, it's measured by how much we keep back for ourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Irony of Tsunami Reliev
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 12:54 PM

So far, however, I have not heard anything indicating that ANY of the pan Arabic/Muslim countries have given or even offered any aid to these people

It's so easy to make negative assumptions about people based on what you have not heard. It takes a little more effort to find out the truth, as GUEST,15 Jan 05 - 04:31 AM has done, so that you don't find yourself guilty of spreading hateful rumors and innuendo based on what you don't know. (Although I notice the author of the article in that link just couln't resist ending it with a nasty little sideswipe at "the Arab world".)

So far, I have not heard anything indicating that NH Dave is not pedophile.

(See how that works, Dave?)

Subject: RE: BS: Irony of Tsunami Reliev
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 12:23 PM

Giok, it is truly sad to see your hatred of the Arab world blinding you like this.

Subject: RE: BS: Irony of Tsunami Reliev
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 12:02 PM

Saw a news report this week that showed how looters have been stealing from abandoned rooms in resort hotels. Lord knows how many dead bodies have been robbed as well, but you'll never stop those type of people and I still sent money to the appeal.
There were also reports over the years that Gadafi paid a bounty to the family of every Palestinian suicide bomber, I wonder if he gave to the tsunami appeal?
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Irony of Tsunami Reliev
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 11:53 AM

Western donations have amounted to over 7 billion dollars.
Iraq war "to depose Saddam and his WMDs cost 150 billion so far with 400 billion on the horizon.

Subject: RE: BS: Irony of Tsunami Reliev
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 08:52 AM

And one of the greatest tragedies is that over 2 million have died in the conflicts in Sudan, with no Western relief efforts yet in sight.

Also, I was talking with my cousin the other night, who is the executive director of the regional food shelf network here in the Twin Cities, and she said the local food shelves here are bare. When the tsunami hit after xmas, traditionally a difficult month for the organizations that deal with winter crises in the lives of the American poor, aid to local relief evaporated over night.

I don't begrudge a dime sent to tsunami relief. But I also know the relief is likely not getting to women and children (perhaps some of you have noticed who the "recipients" are of the food drops, etc? All men. A lot of the food and water will be stolen from recipients and will be available in many areas only through a black market.

And the saddest thing about all of this is that in this day and age, it never has to be like this. If we put even half of the resources and organization into providing relief and raising living standards world wide rather than to militarism every year, poverty on the entire planet would be largely gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Irony of Tsunami Reliev
From: GUEST,Leadfingers
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 06:23 AM

Dave - you do raise a very good point , but your comment about the'upstart Muslim group' by which I assume you mean The Tamil Tigers
The Sri Lankan government is not exactly bending over backwards to let any aid get into the areas controled by this Tamil Independence movement .

Subject: RE: BS: Irony of Tsunami Reliev
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 04:31 AM

Found this:
Sorry about cut and paste but hey...it's way early in the morning here.

"After slow start, Arab countries crank up tsunami relief
Initially criticized for a weak response, Gulf states have increased giving as much as 100-fold.
By Nicholas Blanford | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

BEIRUT, LEBANON - When Saudi Arabia held a 12-hour telethon last week, it not only raised $82 million for the victims of the Asian tsunami disaster, but it also helped quell accusations that the oil-rich Gulf states have been indifferent to a tragedy that left more than 100,000 fellow Muslims dead in Indonesia alone.

Saudi schoolchildren handed over their daily allowances, and one woman dropped her gold bracelets into a collection box as religious clerics, businessmen, and sports personalities broadcast appeals for generosity.

Other Gulf states, also stung by criticism, have increased their contributions, with Kuwait over the weekend raising its $10 million pledge to $100 million.

While the tradition of donating funds to victims of international disasters is often well-entrenched in the West, for many Arabs, giving to worthy causes is a luxury they can ill afford given the poverty and conflicts roiling the region, say observers.

"This is not how things should be," says Abdullah al-Faqih, professor of politics at Sanaa University in Yemen. "But we have to keep in mind that the Arabs live these days in extraordinary circumstances. They lack the freedom to organize and to express opinions, and consequently the freedom to initiate positive responses to crises."

Two-thirds of the fatalities from the Dec. 26 tsunami were from Indonesia, a country with the world's largest Muslim population. The Indonesian government has refrained from public comment, but the slow response of their fellow Muslims in the Arab world has been noted.

"Generally speaking, people [here] are quite disappointed" about the Arab reaction, says Azyumardi Azra, rector of Indonesia's State Islamic University.

"The West responded quickly. They [the Arab world] have been pretty slow," says Nasrullah Djamaluddin, chief imam of Indonesia's Istiqlal Mosque in Jakarta, the largest in Southeast Asia. "But we happily accept all help," he adds.

Malaysia's opposition leader Lim Kit Siang was more forthright last week, slamming the Gulf states for their "cold and indifferent attitudes."

Of late, the tradition of zakat, the religious obligation on all Muslims to donate part of one's income to charity, has become harder to fulfill due to the closure or freezing of many Islamic charities as part of the campaign to block terrorist funding, experts say. The Saudi government in June announced plans to dismantle all international charities in the kingdom and place their funds in a state-controlled commission to thwart the funding of terrorists.

"Religious philanthropic organizations, which used to be the main vehicles for Middle Eastern societies responding to internal and external emergencies, are almost extinct," Mr. Faqih says.

Arab government and popular reaction to the Asian disaster picked up after the Kuwaiti media published some barbed editorials on the "paltry" initial response.

On Jan. 2 Al Qabas, a Kuwaiti newspaper, criticized the contributions of Gulf states, highlighting the Kuwaiti government's initial contribution of $2 million as a reflection of the disregard many Kuwaitis feel toward the thousands of Asians working in the country. Migrant workers from Asia represent the bulk of the estimated 12 million expatriates working in the Gulf, outnumbering the indigenous Arab population. While most of them earn livings as servants and construction workers, many have white-collar jobs as engineers and managers in the oil and gas industries.

"There is a structural link between the Asian laborers and the wealth of the Gulf states, and that's the moral responsibility we should have acted upon immediately," says Rami Khouri, editor of Lebanon's Daily Star newspaper.

Initially Kuwait offered $1 million on the day of the tsunami, then doubled it. A few days later, the contribution increased to $10 million and has now soared to $100 million. Of the $100 million, 30 percent will be in cash and the rest will fund reconstruction projects managed by the Kuwaiti Fund for Economic Development.

Other Gulf countries have also stepped up their donations, partly in response to criticism and also as the magnitude of the disaster became clearer.

Saudi Arabia raised its contribution from $10 million to $30 million, with another $101 million from public donations. The Saudi-based Islamic Development Bank has allocated $10 million in emergency relief as part of a broader aid package.

The United Arab Emirates raised its donation from $2 million to $20 million last week, while Algeria, Bahrain, and Libya have pledged $2 million each. Other Arab countries without the Gulf's oil wealth such as Syria, Jordan, and Egypt have sent planeloads of food, medicine, drinking water, and blankets.

The public response has also accelerated as Arabs watch images of suffering and devastation on their television screens. Qatar's Al Jazeera satellite channel last week launched a campaign to encourage donations.

Record oil prices have swelled the coffers of the oil-producing Gulf states in recent months. Kuwait, which is running a $10 billion budget surplus, handed out $700 million to its citizens.

But some other Gulf countries cannot afford such generosity. Saudi Arabia, despite a reputation for ostentatious wealth, badly needs the additional revenues to lessen the kingdom's $163 billion public debt and provide jobs for the rapidly expanding population.

"The British economy is bigger than all the economies of the Muslim world, and the wealth of Israel exceeds all the wealth of the Gulf countries, yet the kingdom which has offered aid and collected donations gets criticized," Al-Riyadh, a Saudi newspaper, said in an editorial, one of several defensive commentaries in the Saudi press.

Abdulaziz Sager, chairman of the Dubai-based Gulf Research Center, says that the issue of donating to the tsunami disaster has "unfortunately, been politicized."

"In terms of GDP and population size, the contribution of [Gulf] countries is not insignificant," he says.

Indeed, on a per capita basis, the contribution of Gulf governments matches or is greater than that of many Western governments.

For example, the US's pledge of $350 million in public money represents about $1.20 per person. Meanwhile Kuwait's aid amounts to over $44 per person and Qatar's $25 million pledge is nearly $30 per person.

Furthermore, the countries of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) have a history of providing humanitarian aid and funds, Mr. Sager says, citing the 2001 earthquake in the Indian state of Gujarat that killed 20,000 people, and last year's quake in Iran in which 26,000 residents perished.

Still, Professor Faqih takes a more skeptical view of the Arab aid effort.

"From my standpoint, a culture of giving is associated with a culture of tolerance, equality, openness, and respect for others' freedoms and rights," he says. "Therefore, a culture hospitable to giving is still largely missing in the Arab world."

• Tom McCawley contributed to this report from Jakarta, Indonesia.

Subject: RE: BS: Irony of Tsunami Reliev
From: Teresa
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 03:18 AM

I haven't seen any figures on Muslim countries' donations to the relief effort. But if this is the case, it could be due to Fundamentalism of the various Muslim sects. Or perhaps ethnic bigotry? It's an interesting issue.

Teresa

Subject: RE: BS: Irony of Tsunami Reliev
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 01:50 AM

Good Point Dave...

Subject: BS: Irony of Tsunami Relief
From: NH Dave
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 01:43 AM

Listening to BBC Worldwide and Deutche Welle radios during the wee hours of the night, it seems that the US has already spent/provided much of its pledge to the victims of the tsunami. (This is over and above the carrier group whose helicopters are moving supplies from airheads, where conventional cargo planes drop their loads, into the rural and devastated areas where it is still needed, or the MASH type relief hospitals that have been erected by US military forces to stem the spread of and help treat the resultant flood borne diseases like cholera and dysentary.) So far, however, I have not heard anything indicating that ANY of the pan Arabic/Muslim countries have given or even offered any aid to these people, most of whom, at least in the Sumatra region, are Muslim.

   I find it odd or perhaps ironic that the country universally accorded the title, The Great Satan, seems to have done more for these people than any Muslim country of which I have heard. Further, the Tamils, a upstart Muslim group in these parts has actually hindered aid getting to their people, on the basis that it is not coming from or through their political groups(where it can be siphoned off for their own use). This, of course, while we are still engaged in action in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Dave