BS: Is Religion rubbish?

Subject: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 01:10 AM

Hello,
for example = if you are a methodist person, and you belive it, and go to church etc,
then, you find out about diffeent religons, = y , how do you know your religon is right, ?
ie that it is the right one, [them church people say it is, but waht if they wrong, or they lying etc?


and there is loads of religions nowadays, so how you know you choosing the right one?

IS the one waht your mum and dad did, the right one, or if you learn about it, can you get a different one?
or aere they all rubbish?


and waht about , = if you want to marry you girlfrend and shes a muslim, [but not really strict about it, [not too religous etc],
waht then?

do you get marryied in church or mosque?
or if you not really a proper methodist christisan sort of person?
could you just only get married in the mosque, and would it be a proper weddinng?


[and could you still drink a bit, if you married a muslim woman?
[waht if she didn't know about it?
[ie, she goes to see family, = you go to pub?
is that ok?


[i'm just on about, a few drinks , now and then,m , not pissed up everery night etc], waht you think?

i think is good to repsect other people relgons, [eslecially, your wifes, [], but not get all carried away with it, and get too religous.

john

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST,the big ?
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 01:54 AM

ask God.. see what he says..


then can you tell the rest of us
just in case he answers

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 02:06 AM

Wahts the best way to contact god?


anyway=
i did a religon test, a while ago, to see waht religion i should be.
it said i should be a reforomed quacker, i looked at there website, they seem ok, i think inobo is a quacker, he seems ok, also my frrend called chris is a quacker, i was going to be one, but i couldent be aresd.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST,DuckBill
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 02:22 AM

Well Sir jOhn, if you became a quacker, most things that quack have wings so you would be one up on the winged angel thing.

I had better DUCK.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 02:26 AM

heloo.
= its prounounced like qwaker
liker earth qwake er.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST,DuckBill
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 02:48 AM

Sorry Sir jOhn. Some of us are a little slow to catch on.
I get you now! Would that be Quacker? Like the oats you eat with the white-haired old fat man on the box?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 02:50 AM

yes, thats it.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST,DuckBill
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 02:51 AM

Durn! I mean QUAKER. We ducks are dull. How are ducks dull in Hull?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 02:56 AM

Hey, we already had a Religion & Rubbish thread. I think we decided that some people think one way, and others think another.

Is this a rerun?
Do they have reruns in the US?
Are reruns rubbish?

-Joe Offer, who'd like to be a quacker-

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST,DuckBill
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 03:04 AM

Hey the big?

If anyone could talk to gOd it would be Sir jOhn form Hull.

They both speak the same language.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: hesperis
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 03:11 AM

Well, it might or might not be rubbish, but it sure is funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST,DuckBill
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 03:11 AM

Goodnight Sir jOhn sir. The best of luck to you in Hull. I worry about you in a city with so much violence.

Have you considered running for Hull Constable? You could clean up the town like Gary Cooper did that "High Noon" town. You would be famouser than you are now.

I would vote for you but I am an American. Would that matter? Voter fraud is not a problem in America.

Do they even have Constables in Hull Ireland?

Yawn, I am sleeeeeeeepeeeee Snore

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: mg
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 04:10 AM

Cool. I am supposed to be a reformed Quaker too. Sounds like a neat religion to me whatever it is. Left to my own devices I would be a Unitarian I think..as it is I am a Catholic with many disagreements with Holy Mother the Church. But I like the pope. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 09:48 AM

Yes, and I thought the religiously inclined had agreed not to use (I would say abuse) the forum with their personal religious agendas in prayer request threads too, but I suppose that has gone out the window like everything else around here.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:13 AM

Well...sorry to ruin a 'fun' thread with serious reasoning, but that's sorta what I do about some topics....

The question as to whether religion is 'rubbish' is not the same as "Is religion right?" or "Is religion useful?"....

I am NOT religious, but religion is important, as it is used (rightly, or wrongly) to give meaning & focus to many people's lives.

I would like to see us, as a race, move beyond the usual forms of religion and find purpose and meaning within ourselves, and discover that not all questions that need asking also need answers. This may or may NOT happen, but since we are barely peeking out from thousands of years of fear and superstition, religion will continue to be the easiest way for many to come to terms with mortality and and morality, and it will continue to be important forever as part of our history as humans.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST,Frug
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:18 AM

I wake every day and thank God that I'm an Atheist

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:20 AM

Here, here!

I also pray every day for an end to the religious wars that are tearing apart and destroying civilization around the globe. Especially the American brand...

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:21 AM

its not so much 'religion'..

as those who are devoutly 'religious'


that worries me

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:25 AM

by the way...I used to go to a regular church when I was young - so, if you think I'm crazy for my continued attempts to find rationality in this ongoing debate, just remember,

There's Methodist in my madness.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:28 AM

Well BillD, we could do the UU thing, and come burn a question mark in your front yard.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:38 AM

Then I would take solace and comfort in the old UU hymn "We Would Rather Not be Moved"

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:41 AM

Grin.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:46 AM

you see? Religion is so VERY important, because it gives us an outlet for a special brand of humor while it is being all the other things...*grin*

what would we do without all the jokes about going to Heaven and meeting St. Peter?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:53 AM

Live decently and treat one another better than we do now?

It's a possibility we could do better without religion, considering how badly we are doing with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST,Com Seangan
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 12:42 PM

None of us is really sure. Or are we ? The track record of the Methodists and the Quakers seems good and brotherly - - the others seem to make war on people on account of religioius beliefs.

Interesting that statiscally the country with lowest crime rate - Japan - is also the country with least organised religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 01:02 PM

Yes...I'd think that without the overlay of religious based "directed moralities" that conflict with one another, we 'should' eventually do better than we do now...if we survived the transition!
It's not like giving up cigarettes or becoming a tee-totaler, where physical cravings we believe are bad for us can be sublimated or controlled...people believe that religion is GOOD for them, and arguments to the contrary fall on deaf ears, because there is no way to prove a negative. "There is no Supreme Intelligence!" "Why? Just because YOU can't see/feel/intuit it? I see him/it every day, and you can't explain how this universe came to be any other way!".....and I really can't...and it's hard to explain that I don't NEED to explain it: that the search itself is enough.

See?...it's a very, very complicated argument to show why religious beliefs might not be right or justified, and many, many atheists do not actually think it through, but are just expressing their own emotional reactions to some bad experience in church, loss of loved ones, or pessimism about life in general. It can be worse to be right for the wrong reasons, than to be wrong for good reasons!

Religion does serve many useful purposes in this world...at this point in our development as humans. It would be nice if more of its adherents would be more tolerant of each other and not use their beliefs so negatively, but I see no way to take the basic beliefs away from them without profound & serious consequences. It will take much time and MUCH education beyond what we can offer right now to wean good people from their ultimate security blankets....and, who knows...a voice from the sky might come booming down one day and prove them right!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 01:11 PM

YES,religion is harmful to those who are vulnerable through illness etc,etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 01:13 PM

THE BIG VOICE

Sayeth

I AM THE LARD!!

(whoops he celebrated with a little too much of that wine he turned into water,er, was it the other way round? I do think he meant LORD though)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 05:30 PM

This question has already been totally covered in another thread with a virtually identical title to this one, jOhn, plus several other threads besides that one. Go look it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 08:19 PM

how can it have been TOTALLY covered, LH, when I hadn't made all my speeches yet!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 08:27 PM

BillD,

So God is like the WMD in Iraq??? Just because we haven't found them, they may still be there?

And I look forward to more of your speeches- I don't always agree, but I always learn something.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 08:50 PM

yup, bruce...very like the WMDs, except that, *grin*..........with WMDs, we knew what to look for, and we knew that they DID exist somewhere.

(I guess if everyone agreed, these threads would be much shorter...)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 08:53 PM

BillD,

Just take away everything that is NOT God, and what is left is what the person is seeking...

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 09:12 PM

ummmmmmmmmm............poetic, but not particularly useful to a pragmitist like me.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:13 PM

I've said all I really feel I need to on this subject for awhile, Bill. :-) I figure if people want to remain in their familiar comfort zone (religious, atheist, or whatever), I'll just let 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 10:36 AM

No, it's too dangerous to be rubbish. Faith in the absence of data, though, seems a lot like delusion to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 04:13 PM

Atom bombs are too dangerous to be rubbish. So too are cruise missiles and weapons industries that depend on continuing their sales into perpetuity.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 04:30 PM

I know what Sir jOhn means because he is a friend. During the war Hitler bombed all of the churches in Hull and we have lived without religion ever since. It hasn't made us all bad people, in fact Hull is regarded as one of the most friendly places in East Yorkshire. The ladies are very friendly and foxes and seals can generally roam about with total freedom (unless Ted is in town). Just recently Muppett was very well received and has even been invited back. In 2000 years time will people worship a mythical God called Eric Clapton?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 04:42 PM

Hitler bombed "all the churches in Hull"????? You can't be serious! :-) I think the Luftwaffe had strict orders not to bomb St. Paul's Cathedral, among other things. I know that they were under strict orders not to bomb metropolitan London until Sept 1940, when they retaliated for British bombing of Berlin. Eventually, of course, they bombed just about anything they could, which is what always happens eventually in all-out war. That's the problem with war...it rapidly spirals out of all reason. People begin by bombing warships and airfields. They then bomb factories. Then they bomb rail lines, bridges, and communications. Then they bomb power stations and utilities. Then they bomb schools, houses, churches, and hospitals. Finally, they end by even strafing civilians and farm animals...as the Allies did all over Germany in late '44 and '45.

I would suggest that the most powerful religions in the World today are the worship of Money and Military supremacy. Those religions are happy to enlist churches in their service any time they can manage it, but it's Money that drives the game. Not God...Money! Money IS a god in the present society. In fact, it's THE ruling god in this society.

The War in the Middle East is being fought for land, political dominance, and oil. Religion is just a convenient handmaiden to rally the "faithful".

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 04:51 PM

How many far left liberals end up praying to God when they are on their deathbed?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 05:07 PM

Yes, I wonder about that too, Martin. A lot, I bet! Well, you don't have to belong to a church or an organized religion to believe in God, and you can even be a leftwinger and still believe in God. I certainly do. Matter of fact, I know any number of liberals and lefties who believe in God. It's just media hype that identifies the Left with atheism and the Right with religion, in my opinion. I bet there are rightwingers who are strict atheists. Wasn't Ayn Rand an atheist, for example?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 05:45 PM

I don't know Ayn Rand personally, LH, but you can be sure that the stereotype atheist is a liberal, left winger.

There is a certain amount of truth in all stereotypes no matter how much it makes some squirm.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 07:34 PM

Tell us about the stereotypical Jew, Marty.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 07:44 PM

I couldn't help it. The devil made me do it.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff (wdyat12)
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 07:51 PM

Religion is a mental illness!

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 12:26 AM

For the pharmaceutical industry, mental illness is a religion! :-)

They make millions pushing pills down people who need not pills but good emotional counselling and an actual sense of purpose or a healthy sense of their own worth and identity to motivate them in life. It's a bloody disgrace, and a far bigger one than that perpetrated by most churches, in my opinion.

These threads that knock "religion", as if it were just one simple monolithic subject instead of an enormously complex and varied one, are threads for lazy thinkers who probably feel very proud of the fact that they don't approve of people who kick dogs, steal cars, and abuse children. Masters of the painfully obvious, I mean...

Know'm sayin', Peter? Money is probably the religion that's got you by the balls. Or is it sex? Or success? Or consumerism? Or fame? Or popularity? Just take a look at whatever it is that you reserve your strongest faith in and put the most attention on...and THERE is your religion, complete with its gods, its rules, and its superstitious fantasies and spurious rewards and punishments.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 12:36 AM

Martin - Yeah, I am familiar with the classic left-wing atheist type. They are fairly rare, deadly boring, and take themselves way too seriously. They usually think of themselves as "socialists", but sure as hell not as working class. I do not consider them to be a constituency large enough that I would spend any time worrying about them.

They are also most often bearded heavyset men with glasses, and a university degree or two. They may teach at a university. They pride themselves on their intellectual abilities and their stunning skill with words. Their god is their own mind...which they regard with an adoration akin to that experienced by Narcissus when he gazed at his reflection in the pool.

Women, when still young and foolish, marry these men, and later divorce them for being emotionally cold and thoughtless.

Now...THERE's a stereotype to chew on, eh? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST,stereotypes ?
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 12:54 AM

..or the godless amoral sociopathic power crazed meglomaniac corporate tycoon..

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 01:08 AM

Oh, yeah! THAT one is a real beauty. Method actors can really get their teeth into a role like that. Nasty, nasty!

Here are some more...

The saintly, put-upon black person with a heart of gold, ever victimized, ever patient, ever angelic in basic nature, despite being dumped on constantly by a racist society. See any number of movies for this heartwarming stereotype, portrayed by both males and females.

The saintly, put-upon Native American with a heart of gold, a warrior spirit which can kick ass like you wouldn't believe when provoked beyond measure, and an astounding ability to perceive spiritual realities that are totally beyond us ordinary white people (wretched beings that we are!). Heh! I call myself "Little Hawk" because I love the North American Indian traditions, but even I am getting sick of this particular super-Native stereotype!

The saintly, put-upon victim of endemic anti-semitism who...

Well, no. I'd better stop right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Religion rubbish?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 04:37 AM

Another stereotype to chew on - the kind who think they are the only ones to be enlightened. The kind who think everyone else is missing out on some great universal truth by not agreeing with them. The kind who in the absence of real life love from a real life person, constantly make reference to their lack of sexuality as though it is a choice and not something they have had thrusted upon them.. The kind who bemoan consumerism from their computer terminal. The kind who in their efforts to make everyone think they have sussed out life and are on a higher plane, actually give people the impression that they are very much missing out on life, because of their rigid belief system. The kind who are too scared to try. The kind who will never again open their eyes to new ideals, because they have indoctrinated themselves with their particular brand of religion. The kind who are unable to recognise any of the above in themselves.