BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Amos
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 12:16 PM

Bill:

I love that Magee quote; Tillich's assumptions are clangorous and somewhat condescending in their own right.\

A

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Wolfgang
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 11:44 AM

Jim,

it's only me who didn't get it. Sorry. No need to adapt your level of humour. Maybe I just was overly glad that I had understood katlaughing's post.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 11:05 PM

"Story-telling is natural -- we all do it in everyday life, and we all like to be told stories. I suppose by contrast philosophy is counter-natural. Philosophy involves us in the critical analysis of our beliefs, and of the presuppositions of our beliefs, and it's a very striking fact that most people neither like doing this nor like having it done for them."

Brian Magee

--------------------------------------------------------------------

and here is a thought I'm not sure about. It can be very useful to have a poetic, metaphorical idea to wrestle with, trying to decide whether you agree with its thrust, or simply like the comforting tone of the language....This by theologian Paul Tillich, and I confess I can't see all the implications in it.

"Grace strikes us when we are in great pain and restlessness. It strikes us when we walk through the dark valley of meaningless and empty life. It strikes us when we feel that our separation is deeper than usual, because we have violated another life, a life which we loved, or from which we are estranged. It strikes us when our disgust for our own being, our indifference, our weakness, our hostility, and our lack of direction and composure have become intolerable to us. It strikes us when, year after year, the longed-for perfection of life does not appear, when the old compulsions reign within us as they have for decades, when despair destroys all joy and courage. Sometimes at that moment a wave of light breaks into our darkness, and it is as though a voice were saying, "You are accepted. You are accepted, accepted by that which is greater than you, and the name of which you do not know. Do not ask for the name now; perhaps you will find it later. Do not try to do anything now; perhaps later you will do much. Do not seek for anything; do not perform anything; do not intend anything. Simply accept the fact that you are accepted." In that moment . . . reconciliation bridges the gulf of estrangement. And nothing is demanded of this experience, no religious or moral or intellectual presupposition, nothing but acceptance."


Paul Tillich

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Teresa
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 09:37 PM

Martin, I figured a long time ago ... why not leave 'em up year-round, then you don't have to mess with puttin' 'em up or taking them down. :)

Teresa

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 09:18 PM

Have you all taken down your Christmas lights yet?

Or are you waiting like my neighbor until June?

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 09:09 PM

awww, Mary....I will indeed squirm, for being compared in any way to Rick is about as high a compliment as I can imagine in here. I often ask myself before I post how Rick might approach it.

And, yeah, you got one of my favorite quotations, too....there is never an end to the inquiry, the musings, the discovery of new ways to see, new ways to think....and new ways to ASK. Maybe that's why there's always the dots...

(I'm honored, Kevin...*smile*)....I kinda liked it myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 08:58 PM

Jim, I thought it was funny.

I just now read this thread, and as usual, I see everyone's point. But I do have opionions of people I've read over time, and most seem to follow my predictions of their behavior and words.

***Watch Bill squirm...Bill, your gentlemanly conduct always shines through. Much like Rick Fielding's.***

Funny how we all have a quote which stands out. For me, it hit me smack between the eyes, and of course, it tells A LOT about me, and could be a thread in itself. (But frankly, I don't think anyone else would be interested in it.)

According to the romantics – and this is one of their principal contributions to understanding in general – what I mean by depth, although they do not discuss it under that name, is inexhaustibility . . .
No matter how long I speak, new chasms open. No matter what I say I always have to leave three dots at the end. Whatever description I give always opens the doors to something further, something even darker, perhaps, but certainly something which is in principle incapable of being reduced to precise, clear, verifiable, objective prose.

That's me! Openendedness and lots of ...

****************************************************

RE: analogies

I learned in teaching not to use them in my speech. When speaking to a diverse group, the chances of misunderstandings were just too great. (the benefit/risk ratio was just too low)

I also learned when working in research labs and constantly communicating ideas that few people thought like I did. I found two.      One was a retired guy (brought back as a consultant) that "thought out loud" as he was going through a process. Another was a guy from Thailand that thought "wholistically" rather than "sequentially" when using equations.

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 07:29 PM

...cults that have actually harmed people...

Like Christians, perhaps, ~Susie?

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Amos
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 07:14 PM

Jim:

I thought it was very funny!!!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 07:05 PM

If you cannot clearly argue the opposite viewpoint, you cannot truly defend your own.

I'm posting that in the Gallery of Mudcat Quotations

That's been identified as a key technique for finding a way forward in intractable conflicts, notably that in the Holy Land. Unfortunately people find it very hard to actually adopt it. Especially the very people who most badly need to adopt it.

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Big Mick
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 06:58 PM

Exactly, Kevin and Bill. I am a Roman Catholic Christian with strong overtones of paganism strewn throughout my beliefs. I know full well who, in this forum, finds Christians to be flawed. And most of them are close friends of mine (3D or Virtual). But most of them never ridicule me for my beliefs, rather they state why they have theirs. And that is a very good recipe for tolerance. It is why we can get along. There are others here who feel the need to wear it on their sleeve, whether it is religious or secular, and they end up in these messes.

Faith, my friends, is not the same as religious fervor. Living a faith filled life is a peaceful journey, even in a storm. It cannot be argued, as it is personal. Those that are faithful, IMO, feel no need to evangelize. Rather they let their way be their testament. And they do not count proselytization as the mark of their success.

So ..... I repeat ...... breathe.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Jim Tailor
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 06:45 PM

wow. I obviously need to make my humor more obvious.

...or funny. (that might work too)

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Wolfgang
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 06:41 PM

I'm not calling today, "the present". I'm referring to it by its religious name (Jim Tailor)

Are you sure you have understood katlaughing?
Past, present, future.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 06:30 PM

"A hopeful sheepdog faced by a flock of goats..."

A smart-alec Border Collie who 'thinks' he can even harass a bunch of goats into doing almost what he wants...

and yeah, Kevin...a good distinction....now we can argue over where the line should be drawn. But it is certainly true that we never learn the relevance of our own beliefs without at least seeing how others see them...and hopefully, why they see things differently. If you cannot clearly argue the opposite viewpoint, you cannot truly defend your own.

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Jim Tailor
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 06:25 PM

MY GOD, MICK!!!!!!!! I'M DYIN' HERE!!!!!!!!!!

CAN WE EXHALE YET???!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 06:15 PM

"I'm in charge here, ain't I?,,,well....ain't I?"

A hopeful sheepdog faced by a flock of goats...
....................

At least when this thread descended into discord, it did so in a reasonably well-mannered way, with no body parts being thrown around.
...............

I think there is a distinction between proselytising, on the one hand, and explaining where we stand, and arguing in support of it, on the other. I think it's to do with the way the latter does not exclude the possibility that the other side might be able to thrown some new light on our own beliefs. I think that is always a good thing.
.................
I was interested to see that Wolgang picked out the same quote that I would have, from Wittgenstein - "The child learns by believing the adult. Doubt comes after belief."

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Big Mick
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 05:34 PM

Folks, take some deep breaths, willya?

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Teresa
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 05:29 PM

What can't be accomplished by one blustering, powerful being can be accomplished by many less-powerful ones?

Just a guess. :)

Teresa

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 05:26 PM

My point is not that I can't tolerate diverse views, it's that there are people here of every stripe who proselytize, some of them quite openly, and that it's only "Christian" "proselytizing" which is derided when it isn't even HAPPENING. When one of the worst of these folks gave me such a clear example of this, I jumped on it. If people want to get hysterical about that, that's up to them.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 05:21 PM

just to start us up again....here's one to ponder:

Tact : The ability to tell someone to go to hell and have them look forward to the trip.

and just for fun...I have no idea what it means:

"In shallow waters, shrimps make fools of dragons."   - Chinese Proverb

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Teresa
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 05:18 PM

:) Er, benign dictatorship? ;) :)

Teresa

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 05:16 PM

yep, Teresa, it shore can...I'm in charge here, ain't I?,,,well....ain't I?

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Teresa
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 05:06 PM

Thank you, lovingkat. :)

And thank you, Bill. The thread can be found and picked up again. :)

Teresa

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Jim Tailor
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 05:05 PM

I'm not calling today, "the present". I'm referring to it by its religious name...

Groundhog Day.

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 04:58 PM

Do you know why today is called the "present?" It is a gift.

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 04:50 PM

~~~~~~~~~..my....I have slow ISP problems for ½ day, and just look what I find.

let me say this: I was married before, to a nice lady who also carried a lot of painful baggage from earlier relationships. She had one real problem, that eventually led to too many ill feelings....

When anyone disagreed with her, or someone said something that she imagined was critical, she almost always took it personally, and in the most negative way possible, usually including a remark of the "you think that I'm dumb" or "you don't really care" type. I seemed to be unable to persuade her that it might be better to ASK me what I meant by my remark, rather than telling me it was obvious what I thought and how I felt. Her 'ability' to read my mind and assume the worst made every argument escalate into arguing about how to argue, and I seldom won one.

Here we have a bunch of people, all of whom I enjoy and respect individually, and mostly get along with just fine, seemingly doing a similar trick of deciding that another's post was meant offensively and that they can easily discern the poster's true colors...etc...and all this without even eye contact or tone of voice to aid in the analysis!

Folks...we have LOTS of time here. We don't have to settle every confusion or dispute before we can have supper or go to bed....we can compare notes, use *Max's Wonderful Private Messages* (usually) to ask "what did you mean by that?...I was kinda upset by the tone"

It does "all depend on whose ox is being gored", doesn't it?...I often nag Amos and Little Hawk about stuff THEY believe that I think needs more "maybe" in the explication, but I seldom seriously offend them ...I hope...and Amos has his list of stuff that HE considers flights of fancy, and Little Hawk makes more claims than anyone, but preaches no particular Theology, so he can't be so easily miffed...until you claim he DIDN'T see a saucer...*grin*....

I may write some comments to various individuals by PM...after I sort out what I think...(just keep repeating to yourself, Bill...it IS an 'open forum'..it IS an open forum)

EVERY ONE of us has some idea or attitude that doesn't set well with some of the other's, and if we all met RT, like at the Getaway, we'd probably either decide we liked each other...or...just walk away and AVOID the discussion. It really IS possible to do something similar here...(he says, knowing that HE gets into some serious debates with...oh, you-know-who...and whatisname, too..)


and, Jim Tailor....I don't think I'm 'hoity-toity'...I think I'm hoi-poloi. and I like a hurdy-gurdy...

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 04:18 PM

We can admire certain ideas, thoughts, realisations, such as the one above, or, "do unto others as you would be done by". It's a hell of a lot harder to apply them to our lives.

and that is the difference between wisdom and dogma.

we are our own advertisement, whether we see it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 04:15 PM

meanwhile, back at the ranch..

In regards certainty: "Shall we espouse and endorse it? Or shall we treat it as a weakness of our nature from which we must free ourselves, if we can? I sincerely believe that the latter course is the only one we can follow as reflective men. Objective evidence and certitude are doubtless very fine ideals to play with, but where on this moonlit and dream-visited planet are they found? I live by the practical faith that we must go on experiencing and thinking over our experience, for only thus can our opinions grow more true; but to hold to any of them – I absolutely do not care which – as if it never could be reinterpretable or corrigibile, I believe to be a tremendously mistaken attitude."

                                  William James

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Amos
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 04:11 PM

Jerry and Susan:

I am sorry for any upset my post caused. I think you both know I do not post with any intention to harm. That said, however, I repeat that you have taken what I said and confused it with some other statement, perhaps more insulting, from some other source at some other time.

What I said, and I think it is true, is that the responses you get when you proselytize are similar to the young lady in my imaginary example. And for similar reasons.

It has nothing to do with the reality of your faith, but rather with the gap between your reality and that into which you are communicating -- mine, for example. Maybe the fact that this is too true accounts for the scope of your unexpected reaction.

I admire you both in spite of my metaphysical differences of opinion.   

A

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 04:09 PM

Not around where long enough? The planet, graduate school, or the Mudcat? These were Bill's musings to start with, and it was interesting when that was the extent of what was posted here.

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 04:05 PM

The thread title is "Thinking about recent threads ". I responded to it. People don't like it, too bad. I'm also not the only person who found Amos' post offensive. SRS, sorry, you have not been around long wenough to know much of what you are talking about in this thread.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Jim Tailor
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 04:01 PM

I don't think Amos meant to offend with the "12 year-old" analogy. I just thought he was condescending. Try as I might, I can't get any other read on it.

I think it was a case of Amos being totally transparent. A slip if you will. I don't think you can read his post without concluding that the parallel, "believer=imature", was intentional. At least I can't.

I'm not that offended by it, but then, when in Rome you are bound to, you know, find some REALLY good pasta. Even more if you visit further north in Italy.

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 04:00 PM

SRS - I did not read your previous post. I am not a Christian and do not subscribe to any religious dogma. my comments apply to any people with any view. I think that when other people's motives are defined by a third party, its reasonable to point out that we all view the world through our own spectrum of held beliefs.

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:57 PM

I've tried twice to get this to post correctly. This is the correct version of what I was trying to say.

---

Susan inserted and entirely self-serving defensive clunker into this thread with her first contribution. Don't jump all over Amos or me for trying to see why it had anything to do with what Bill and others were talking about. Amos' analogy to a 12-year-old with an imaginary friend was not inappropriate, because to those who don't share ~S~'s hard-and-fast christian world view, there is a level of acceptance of the metaphysical that is akin to having an invisible friend. THIS IS WHAT I MEANT ABOUT WRITING BACK TO THE CENTER. By your insisting that what Amos said was meant to offend, you bring the focus back to yourself and your spirituality, and to your dismissal of any criticism of it. You have illustrated perfectly why those who don't share in christian views aren't willing to sit on their hands and let you rant on about it.

SRS

On this topic perhaps we should agree to disagree, have Joe Clone remove the several previous contributions, and move forward.

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:51 PM

Susan inserted and entirely self-serving defensive clunker into this thread with her first contribution. Don't jump all over Amos or me for trying to see why it had anything to do with what Bill and others were talking about. Amos' analogy to a 12-year-old with an imaginary friend was not inappropriate, because to those who don't share ~S~'s hard-and-fast christian world view, there is a level of acceptance of the metaphysical that is akin to having an invisible friend. THIS By insisting that what Amos said was meant to offend, you bring the focus back to yourself and your spirituality, and your dismissal of any criticism of it. You have illustrated perfectly why those who don't share in christian views aren't willing to sit on their hands and let you rant on about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:39 PM

my father was a very anti religious athiest who had been badly hurt by "religious" people. He was strongly opposed to hypocrisy, humbug and the "holier than thou" attitudes.

I have seen "holier than thou" attitudes transferred around to be "more rational than thou", "more humanistic than thou", "more politically aware than thou" and "more fashionable than thou".

that's why i admire Bill's approach on this forum - he analyses, maybe makes some wry comments occasionally, but presents his thoughts without any hidden emotional agenda.

a determinedly non religious person cannot ever understand what motivates a religious person, and if they have a poor view of religion will see the religious person in terms of their own poor view.How objective is that?

Just as in political life, people have a range of views, motives and approaches, so in the spectrum of religious/spiritual beliefs, people have a range of not only views, motives and approaches - but experiences.

Using your own philosophy to put someone else down is not an act of philosophical truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:25 PM

If it swims, Alf's got it!

(sign outside fish shop)

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: KathWestra
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:16 PM

And there goes another good thread down the trail of "he said, she said" and name-calling. Too bad. I loved Bill's collection of thought-provoking quotes. Thanks, Bill, and I'm sorry it came to this.
Kathy

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:00 PM

Amos, I was referring to your persistent attempts to persuade me out of my faith, in the same way you post your certainty of how things "are" in so many of your posts in this forum. Your effort to "teach" me how to see, how to think in place of my faith. Your persistent effort to persuade me that what I consider the Good News is actually Bad News. I'm not talking about the times you stated things in terms of your own personal view, with some sense of responsibility that they were, simply, your views.

I am talking about your effort to persuade. If you wanted to be completely honest, you would admit that you did quite a bit of it, and with considerable force. You continue trying to "educate" us in this forum in a similarly expert fashion. You insist on yourself as an arbiter of others' sense-- you just did it in a post directed to me, above, on top of your analogy about 12 year olds. I hate to break it to you, but your lack of the ability to know what someone else means, without demanding they defend their thoughts and their semantic choices, disqualifies you for that role.

But hey, that's just my view.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 02:53 PM

Man, Amos: That is the most dismissive, insulting comment I've heard in here in a long time... comparing people who have faith in God and Christ to 12 year old children and their imaginary playmates. You managed to out insult Martin Gibson without obscenities. That is really hurtful. Makes me wonder why I should even express my thoughts on this forum.

I would have thought better from you.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: GUEST,jim tailor
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 02:48 PM

It was a joke -- on my lack of erudition -- not on Bill D's offerings which I had already allowed as how I liked (above).

Bill, I don't know you from Adam (no religious implication intended). I'm sure that you are not hoity-toity. Did I mention that I don't know you? ...or your hoity-toity level.

Maybe you are hoity-toity. .....hey.....just a doggone....

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: Amos
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 02:44 PM

De-evangelize????? I don't even know what that means!!

Evangelize:

reach the gospel (to)
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn


convert to Christianity; "The missionaries evangelized the Pacific Islanders"
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

Yeah, I would definitely prefer you not use this forum to do these things, if that is what you mean.

Aside from that, break a leg.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 02:40 PM

I'd spell it "hoity-tuition" but I wouldn't ascribe it to BillD.

~Susan

Vile thing, you make my heart stink.
You make everything... doodie.

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: GUEST,jim tailor
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 02:36 PM

Well, here's MY THINKING ABOUT RECENT THREADS (as stolen from the Simpsons -- who in my estimation ROCK compared to Bill D's hoity-toitiness (that is how you spell it isn't it? "hoity-toitiness?)...

Homer: Marge? Since I'm not talking to Lisa, would you please ask her to pass me the syrup?

Marge: Dear, please pass your father the syrup, Lisa.

Lisa: Bart, tell Dad I will only pass the syrup if it won't be used on any meat product.

Bart: You dunkin' your sausages in that syrup homeboy?

Homer: Marge, tell Bart I just want to drink a nice glass of syrup like I do every morning.

Marge: Tell him yourself, you're ignoring Lisa, not Bart.

Homer: Bart, thank your mother for pointing that out.

Marge: Homer, you're not not-talking to me and secondly I heard what you said.

Homer: Lisa, tell your mother to get off my case.

Bart: Uhhh, dad, Lisa's the one you're not talking to.

Homer: Bart, go to your room.

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 01:06 PM

Amos, you patronizing son of a bitch. "Feel free"-- as if I need your OK about it. And I don't care if you mean it as an analogy-- you've described your persistent attempt to de-evangelize me quite clearly. It's a lot more than a "huff."

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 12:51 PM

Susan:

I think even you will see that your last post as written makes little sense.

I said invisible, not non-existant. And it was an analogy -- I wasn't accusing you of being a 12 year old or acting like one; I said you get a reception similar to what a 12 year old might get IF he/she were...

But feel free to have a huff about it--your call. I'm in a minority here, so I'll just shuffle down to the back of the bus! !:D

A

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 12:37 PM

SRS, "Slanted" implies a disproportionate amount of influence, in a pejorative manner, being utilized in ongoing discussions. I don't think that's the case. You're simply finding yourself in a mix of people who (like myself) were compelled by our parents or our society to keep a lid on it for years while the christians ran things and presumed that everyone else agreed with them.

That's true of SOME people, but it's true of others that they feel that having been raised that way gives them reason or excuse to deliberately attack. It is disproportionate, it is pejorative, it is deliberate. THAT's what I was referring to. I'm not the least confused about it and I don't need you to reinterpret it for me.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: GUEST,jim tailor
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 12:22 PM

And I would submit to you that SRS just provided very good insight as to why you feel the need to characterize those of faith as "12 year olds" so that your fragile view of adulthood as "faith-free" isn't threatened.

I'M KIDDING!!!!

sort of.

Groove on, friend.

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 12:20 PM

And Amos, I submit that your decision to see people that way says just about all there is to say about your worth on that subject. No WONDER I find you so offensive!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Thinking about recent threads -Bill D
From: GUEST,Amos
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 12:01 PM

I submit that those of you who make assertions about Jesus and God get the same sort of irritated reception as might be tendered to a 12-year-old busy negotiating on behalf of her invisible playmates. The deal might be acceptable but the rationale doesn't make sense.

A