Padstow Darkie Days

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 01:44 AM

Cheers
Bill

It is the UK

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: Flash Company
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 10:16 AM

Apparently the CPS decided yesterday that nothing of a Racist nature had taken place on the videos produced by the Devon & Cornwall police department at Padstow. Case dismissed.

FC

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 11:06 AM

The organisers were informed of the filming and changes took place to songs and costumes beforehand, according to those taking part. So, well worth the police intervention.

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: GUEST,Guest - Terry Redmond
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 11:30 AM

Date: 11 Mar 05 - 11:06 AM

"The organisers were informed of the filming and changes took place to songs and costumes beforehand, according to those taking part. So, well worth the police intervention"

Yeah, right. The police tip the organisers off so no racist charges can stick - then film the now cleaned up event?
You have evidence for this?

Darky day evidence?

Which one is 'cleaned up'?

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 11:36 AM

still in denial?

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 11:40 AM

Great idea indeed, Bill. Don't stay a guest, btw, come and join the madhouse...;-)

I dunno how it works there in the US but I would love to find out. The issue I have always had here in the UK whenever I have tried to get other groups involved is A) Finding them and B) affording them! Ours isn't a tradition - just a small music festival but I do look for diversity where I can. We can get a Morris team for expenses usualy. When we asked for a Bhangra dance troup they were asking hundreds of pounds! To a little festival like ours it does make it difficult. I suspect the same is true of the little regional traditional festivals like Padstow and Bacup.

There was only one occasion when we managed to get a bit of variance. We got extra funding from the arts council and managed to book a Ghanaan story teller and a Ukrainian dance troup. If the 'powers that be' could do something about creating ethnic diversity in this way rather than just criticising we may be well on the way to racial harmony:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 11:46 AM

Never heard of "Darkie Days." Sounds like a considerably different tradition from the US Minstrel shows.

By coincidence, I recently viewed an early Hitchcock Movie, "Young And Innocent" from 1937 which has as a plot device one of its characters performing in blackface in a veddy British minstrel jazz combo (good music, too). Took me back because I'd never imagined such a thing. By additional coincidence, at this very moment on NPR, a black DJ is explaining how he has taken the historic and historically racist 1915 American film, "Birth Of A Nation" and re-mixed it with modern audio and video effects to make it into a self-commentary: "Re-Birth of A Nation". It's normally done as a live mix with the DJ there.

The English have a very different perspective from Americans: England outlawed slavery far earlier than the US, and used its navy to restrict or eliminate the slave trade where feasible. And of course, England never had a large population of slaves itself. The word 'nigger' cropped up in Gilbert and Sullivan quite 'innocently' (The Mikado) and was replaced with 'vigor' possibly within G & S's lifetimes, and probably to satisfy the American market because the word never packed the pungency in Britain that it did over here. I believe they mainly considered it a reference to color (as opposed to race).

It is possible to see Darkie Days as a homegrown folk tradition that can be tolerated by minorities who have an understanding of its origins and intents. But it may also be perceived as an inherently flawed activity in the light of current population.

In Anchorage about fifteen years ago, one of the better and more enlightened high schools had a series of student rendered paintings on the sides of its hallways. One of the paintings depicted a figure hanging by a noose from a tree, below which the word "Prejudice" was printed. The figure was faceless and, as I recall, purple. The mother of one of the students, who was black, maintained it was a racist illustration and wanted it removed. It became a "letters to the editor" issue and went on for a few weeks. Most people thought it was a good "anti-racist" message and tastefully displayed. This one woman was adamant. In the end, the image was removed.

Toleration doesn't always mean the same thing at the same time.

The discussion of the issue is a good thing. It is more important than whatever the conclusion turns out to be.

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: Cats
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 01:24 PM

I've just got back home after 4 days in the frozen north (Scarborough) at the Womens TUC Conference. It was good to hear the news that there is no case to answer and that CPS have dismissed it. What is worrying is that the Asst Chief Constable of Devon and Cornwall made a written statement to the Western Morning News in which he indicated that he disagreed with it and therefore would be policing it to make sure there is no rowdy behaviour. As a public servant I would have thought that he could have said that as an individual but not as a police officer, especially as there has been a CPS ruling.
As for what has been cleaned up... well, the minstrel songs and afro wigs disappeared years ago, so it wasn't that, so all that I can see is that the Merrymakers weren't so rowdy this year. The video wasn't cleaned up either, it had to go just as it stood so... There again the CRE found it to be not racist when Bernie Grant complained. The Merrymakers did exactly the same as they do every year.
CPS have said that 'the blacking of faces' is not racist so all those morris and molly sides, as well as Rochester Sweeps, can breathe again. So, folks. lets celebrate. Go and support the Britannia Men when they are out at Easter, in fact, let's all celebrate all out British Folk Traditions for what they are. Our Heritage.

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 09:15 PM

"according to those taking part" - more vague gossip and rumours. Who are the "those taking part" cited, where does the information come from, etc.

................

Incidentally, here's a picture (from my flickr photostream, and our family album) of a group of their neighbours in London celebrating the end of the Great War outside their decorated home - the reason I put it in here is because of the young man in Blackface Minstrel with the banjo. Except he looks more like a Pierrot. It's a strange picture in several ways - there's a melancholy about it. Appropriate enough.

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 04:45 AM

Bearing in mind CPS judgement the Asst.Chief Constable of Devon and Cornwall would be better occupied in deploying his force against criminals and anti-social behaviour rather than those innocent participants and spectators on Darkie Days. It sounds as if he is saying he`ll have his way regardless.
Let sanity reign.

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: GUEST,GUEST - Terry Redmond
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 05:43 AM

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 11:36 AM

still in denial?

I'm not in denial, I'm puzzled - what is your point?

The article you refer to is dated 10th March and says that after consultation with the organiser and some minor changes had been agreed-presumably to avoid accusations in future-there was no case to answer.

The original investigation report was published on the 25th Feb. So if the changes had already been made there would have been no point in filming, if they hadn't been made then a crime had been committed.

A prosecution would have had to have followed.

So I ask again- are you really saying that the changes were contrived between organisers and authorities before the Police videos were made, that despite these changes nobody thought to simply make a sworn declaration "This is NOT what normally happens" which would have forced the CPS to take the matter to court?

This was first investigated SEVEN years ago with the same result. A Press Complaints enquiry took place on the reporting. The CPS took evidence from MP's, the CRE and the Police- no evidence of racist content.

In SEVEN years, not one of the complaints of RACISM has had the intelligence or the moral courage to video the event or put their name to a complaint.
IF IT'S RACIST - IT SHOULD STOP. And I promise that I'll take no further part in the guising activities for the museums, churches and civic processions that I have been participating in for the last five years.

These traditions go back at least a couple of hundred years.
Hasn't ANY one of the complainants got the guts to stand up to present the case and substantiate this 'evidence' without a mask of anonymity?

Terry

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: GUEST,Lodenek
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 03:15 AM

I'm a Padstonian who grew up with the Darkie Day custom. I understand that the hearts and minds of the people of Padstow aren't racist. However, this celebration is definitely politically incorrect. Just because the Crown Prosecution Service has determined that Darkie Days celebrants aren't breaking the law, doesn't mean that these celebrations are acceptable today. It is my earnest hope that the people of Padstow will recognise this and voluntarily discontinue this tradition, and replace it with another one. I suggest that they sing and dance in the streets of Padstow to celebrate our diversity and call that celebration D Day (Diversity Day). How would the people of Padstow react to people mocking their ancient tradition of May Day, when the Padstow Obby Oss (Hobby Horse) lives again? How would they feel about the ancient culture of their ancestors being mocked? How would they feel about their ancient Cornish (Kernewek) language, music, dance and Celtic customs being ridiculed? I know that they would find this to be extremely offensive. That's exactly the same way black people react to the Padstow Darkie Days celebration.

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 04:21 AM

And I am a Dutchman.

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 08:32 AM

GUEST,Lodenek,

Thank you.

Azizi

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 10:54 AM

You're welcome St. Francis.

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: GUEST,Lodenek
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 11:00 AM

Forgot to identify myself. It's nice to find that the blessed Saints are watching over Padstow's Darkie Days.

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: GUEST,Lodenek
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 12:33 PM

The Shambles wrote: And I am a Dutchman. Does this suggest doubt that I'm a Padstonian? If so, I would be happy to identify myself.

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 01:24 PM

Lodenek, it is not necessary to identify yourself. Here, relationships of trust grow between site members, because there are private-messaging options to use when things need to be clarified privately. For instance, I wondered what you meant about "St. Francis." But it is something I would prefer to discuss privately, not in the thread.

In any event, welcome to Mudcat!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 01:28 PM

It was a play on words: St Francis of Assisi. I think so, anyway.

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: Snuffy
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 01:28 PM

I think its just a pun on Azizi's name - St Francis of Azizi?

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 02:33 PM

That's right, it was a play on words. Turning Azizi into St. Francis of Assisi. I'm going to check into membership here. Perhaps that would reveal who I am? Lodenek by the way is the original Cornish (Kernewek)name for Padstow. That name was used prior to the arrival of St. Petroc when the name changed to Petrockstow and later corrupted by common useage to Padstow. Stow is the Cornish word for Place, hence the place of Petroc. I intend to write to the Padstow Echo, and include a similar letter to the one I wrote in this Forum. Frankly, this will not make me any friends in Padstow. In fact, it will probably alienate me from many friends and also from my two siblings. That's unfortunate, but I have to stand up and be counted on the subject of Darkie Days. The citizens of Padstow really need to think carefully about this politically incorrect celebration, and do the right thing, euthanize it. Gorguytheugh...Cornish for Take Care. Alexander

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: breezy
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 02:33 PM

or Sister in this case??

She is still with us after all.

The folks I spoke to in Padstow last week end were very mindful that they do not upset anyone

Then the cornish man wouldnt be as considerate seeing as the cost of houses has been pushed beyond the reach of the locals and the Spanish are poaching in the waters.

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: GUEST,Lodenek
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 02:35 PM

Forgot to identify myself again. Alexander

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 08:06 PM

Lodenek, I liked the pun on my name.

However, I must confess that I'm no saint.

Actually, the name "Azizi" [ah-ZEE-zee] is the KiSwahili form of the Arabic female name "Aziza" which is a form of the male name "Aziz".

The name "Azizi" means [one who is] rare & precious.

I strive to live up to my name.

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: Alexander
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 06:30 AM

Azizi? I'm glad you liked my pun. I just became a member and so GuestLodenek is now Alexander. I tried Alex but somebody is already using that. This thread appears to have run out, but I'll try to start one about the Padstow Obby Oss, hope to see you there.

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: Azizi
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 10:25 AM

Welcome to Mudcat, Alexander!

Azizi-sometime called Ms Azizi; sometimes called sista Azizi; sometimes called sister Azizi; never called Saint Azizi! **BG**

I'll 'see' you around the Mudcat.

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: BB
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 04:56 PM

I never knew the origin of the name 'Padstow' - Petrockstow's in Deb'n!

Barbara

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: mandoleer
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 06:08 PM

Never heard of the Darkie Days, but the idea of it reminded me of two things. At Scarborough Weekend once, we were intrigued to find that when one member of a Border Morris side had his blacked-up face washed, he was black underneath. And the other thing - has anyone raised any objection to the Britannia Coconut Dancers from Bacup yet?

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: Alexander
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 06:01 PM

Final message on this thread. Earlier I promised to write to the Padstow Town Council and the Padstow Echo to state that they should consider euthanizing the Darkie Days celebration. Since then I shared my message with my two siblings in Padstow and they both have begged me not to post that message. They state that they're the ones who will have to live with the fallout, while I'm safe and secure six thousand miles away in Washington State, USA. After giving their request some considerable thought I have decided to let the cards fall where they will without outside intervention, even if it does come from a fellow Padstonian.

Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: LadyJean
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 12:47 AM

I was in England in 1986, and I liked the Cornish people best of all! They were the nicest, and the most fun of all the people I met there. I didn't hear any racist comments in Cornwall. One or two at a very elegant dinner in Shrivenham. But not Cornwall.
With regards to Chimney Sweeps, the lady who taught German at my high school was a Czech. She said, in her youth, kids in Prague would go off in search of a sweep on the day of a big test, and try to get two fingers covered with soot from the sweep for good luck.
Now, the kids who put on blackface at O.U. for Halloween were, deliberately trying to offend African American students, which was stupid and mean.
The guy who dressed as a pregnant nun, and the "flasher" with the loofah sponge were trying to offend everybody, which is normal behavior for undergraduates.