Lyr Add: Rio Grande (sailors)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rio Grande (sailors)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 01:54 PM

".... contemporary chanty business, ...."
That brought a smile.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rio Grande (sailors)
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 02:40 PM

That could be a good title for a book: "The Making of the Contemporary Chanty Business." :)

Song "origins" *are* quite interesting, but I always get defeated eventually by the absurdity of the concept of origins. I'm personally more interested in development, or 'trajectory' (or some other fancy name).

It's bracing to consider that the vast majority of chanty forms performed today derive from (or were mediated through) print sources. Published chanty texts don't merely provide evidence about chanty singing practices (and they may not do that at all), rather they have *become* the practices. Certainly it's not always the case. I learned some chanties, back in college, off the Library of Congress recordings, for instance. But it is the case most of the time, and most of what you'd learn orally from a sing-around has its basis in print. (Why I stress making up/improvising new lyrics, at least -- breaks us out of the vicious cycle!)

"Rio Grande" is a tricky example for going through this exercise (chronological presentation/analysis of print references) because it was indeed such a popular chanty and so well known. Oral/aural familiarity with the song co-existed with writing. More people writing (i.e. relative than some other chanties) probably actually knew the song well, and this makes the chronological run-down too simplistic. I shudder to think :) that even some of the really 'authentic' informants of the early 20th century had heard popular/commercially recorded versions, and were being "contaminated" by them.

I'm not sure if this "exercise" really yielded anything. I guess, at least for me, it gives me a sense of which print sources were original or the most 'authentic.' I was hoping it would also reveal what Hugill came up with, but that turns out to be very convoluted business. Because instead of just borrow lyrics, he made them his own by tweaking them. Things that appear to be from earlier print sources ...*maybe*... have been camouflaged with Hugill's personal phrasing. It makes it very hard to say whether what Hugill gives is an independent variation of a common, orally-passed lyric, or whether he pulled it from a book and just changed "you" to "yiz", "get" to "git", "New York" to "Liverpool", "and" to "an'", etc.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rio Grande (sailors)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 04:17 PM

Lyr. Add:

Oh n'as-tu jamais visité le Rio Grande
Au large vers Rio
C'est là où les eaux ruissellent sur les plages dorées
Et nous sommes cap sur le Rio Grande

Au large les gars au large
Chantons adieu mes filles de Liverpool
Et nous sommes cap sur le Rio Grande

Où avez-vous mis le cap mes braves gars
Cap pour les pays du Brésil mes brave gars

Nous en avions marre de la plage quand on n'avait plus d'argent
Alors nous nous sommes engagés sur ce courier pour le faire marcher dur

Sois heureuse Mary Ellen et n'aie pas l'air triste
Pour la fête des bas blancs tu boiras du rhum chaud

Nous sommes un courier de Liverpool avec un équipage de Liverpool
C'est possible de rester le long de la cô mais je serai damné si on le fait

Donc c'est fini les moteurs de treuil nous partons à la voile
Les filles que nous quittons recevront notre demi-solde

Je ne chanterai qu'un choeur pour Steven les gars
Chanterai qu'un choeur la tempê souffle.

P. 28, with score. Cahiers de chants de marins, Nr. 2, Chasse-Marée/Armen.
Translated from Hugill.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rio Grande (sailors)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 06:08 PM

Illustration from Sampson's book.
"We're Bound For The Rio Grande" by Kenneth D Shoesmith.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/53138138@N05/sets/72157627139792451/

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rio Grande (sailors)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 09:32 AM

Another fine drawing.
http://www.dnfa.com/webpic/max/347554-19.jpg

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rio Grande (sailors)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 09:34 AM

Artist, Arthur Briscoe - Bound For Rio Grande.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rio Grande (sailors)
From: GUEST,Linneag
Date: 23 May 22 - 06:30 PM

please join us for the Rio Grande Big sing - all versions welcome - Weds 25 May 2022 - 8pm UK - contact Linn for the links via her website https://linnphippsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rio Grande (sailors)
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 25 May 22 - 07:59 AM

"And we'll point her nose for the South-er-on Star."

Wouldn't a sailor have sung "bow(s)" rather than "nose"?

And there ain't no Southern Star - not like the North Star.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rio Grande (sailors)
From: Lighter
Date: 25 May 22 - 09:36 AM

When I learned this song ca1964 (from one book or another), the word was "bows."

I suspect that "nose" may have come from a landubber's mishearing. Most people don't know that "bows" is as acceptable a description as "bow."

And there is a "Southern star": Polaris Australis (Sigma Octantis) visible only in the Southern Hemisphere. Unfortunately it's usually too dim to be useful to navigators.

However, it does indicate in the song that the ship is headed south of the equator.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rio Grande (sailors)
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 May 22 - 11:48 AM

I'm pretty certain 'nose' is a natural colloquialism for 'bow' among seamen just as 'arse' is for 'starn'. A 'nose-ender' was a wind blowing from dead ahead. A riverman might say, 'stick her nose in there' meaning pull into the bank or a haven.