Hey! I CAN sing!

Subject: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: MBSLynne
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 05:14 AM

Ok..I've been singing in folk club singaround type things for about 25 years, but I've never had much confidence in my singing and considered myself a very second rate singer. I do it for my own enjoyment and am happy that people will be polite enough to let me. Having such shaky confidence, it takes very little to knock it back even further and over the years some people have done that....a 'friend' who thought he knew all about music told me I sing slightly sharp, someone else said "Well you may not be the greatest singer in the world..." which is true, but taken by me to mean I'm rubbish. I thought...well, if I practise more I could be a BIT better, cos practice does that. Then I thought...if I record myself, I can hear where I'm going wrong and perhaps put some of it right. So I did...and I was really pleased! I'm not such a bad singer after all! Ok, I couldn't be professional and I doubt if anyone would ever go anywhere just to listen to me, but I'm ok! Nothing to be shy or embarassed or diffident about when I sing. There are still an awful lot of people better than me, but there are also quite a few who sing regularly and happily, who are no better. Hooray! I feel really good! Now I shall go out and od it more often!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 05:37 AM

That's fantastic! Good for you! One of my vocations is showing women they CAN sing- by giving them the support of lots of happy voices around them in my chorus (called Animaterra)

Keep singing, don't let the critics get you down, and just enjoy it!

Allison

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: shepherdlass
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 06:13 AM

Good on you - keep at it. And remember, for every person who loves even the voices of Sinatra, Pavarotti, the Watersons, there's another who can't stand them - sometimes all you get is the critic's personal taste (with added candour when they realize you're already lacking in confidence!)

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: jacqui.c
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 07:02 AM

Good for you Lynne - I had the same problem, but decided "what the hell - I'm doing it because I want to".

So long as people don't obviously leave the room when you start singing just keep on - I thought your voice sounded pretty good in December anyway!

The ones who really criticise under the guise of 'advice' are generally those who are insecure themselves and need every one else in the vicinity to feel the same!

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 07:05 AM

When we were in our teens my brother couldnt carry a tune in a bucket - Now he is a guiding Light in the church choir !! The more you practise ANY musical instrument the better it will sound - and dont forget that the voice is JUST another instrument !!

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 07:21 AM

the best thing I read about singing was in a review of a workshop for folks who "could not" sing. Everyone can sing, it's just that some of us sing to a different harmony.

Someone must have told me years ago I could not sing, I don't remember who or when, but I knew I couldn't.

Well, I mean singing along with the radio or records at home is not really singing, is it? but I couldn't do it in public, not with all the real singers around, cos I can't hold a tune on my own.

Fortunately the first time I sang along with the audience at a folk club & the sopranos nearby looked down their noses at my quiet effort, I just sang a bit softer & didn't allow their sniffs to squash me.

Now any chorus going includes my voice & I spend a lot of time in singing sessions & still sing along with my CDs.

I still can't hold a tune on my own, but that doesn't stop me singing & no-one ever will - the people have songs.

sandra
.................

The People have songs - Miguel Heatwole

Here voices are tuned to each other in gladness
To all here in common affection belongs
Hear joy and laughter meet keening and sadness
Here tyranny's cursed for the people have songs

CHORUS
Let us set the room ringing with the sound of our singing
When we come to the end let us hold the chord long
Hear the harmonies rise and all close our eyes
'Til the last cadence dies the people have songs.

Here is war parting sweethearts
Here are strong sweating sailors
And poets for beauty who ardently long
Here are people at work singing loud at their labours
Here are marriage & drinking for the people have songs

CHORUS

Respect for each other gives each one a hearing
And whether the voice be uncertain or strong
We listen with love if the heart is endearing
Supported in harmony the people have songs

CHORUS

Distaining oppression like others before us
Our gentleness angered by history's wrongs
Our tradition endures, and our voices in chorus
Are lifted in hope for the people have songs.

CHORUS

...............

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: GUEST, Hamish
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 07:27 AM

I remember when I was little - about 5 or 6 - being singled out by the teacher because I could sing in tune. "Listen, Jim, to Hamish. Try to sing like him." Of course I was pleased, but even then I realised that she was knocking all confidence out of Jim (name changed to protect etc.).

Years later, when I'd discovered guitar and folk-rock, I used to sing in the house regularly. I overheard my brother saying to my mum that it was a pity about my voice. Knocked me for six. Took decades to recover. By which time my boy-band good looks, etc...

Careless words, careless words.

Anyway, you've banished the demon, Lynne: don't look back and enjoy!

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 07:32 AM

Good for you! Isn't wonderful to sing because you enjoy it? Now remember the experience and gently encourage others to join in.
SINS

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: MBSLynne
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 07:38 AM

Thanks guys!

Sandra..that's a wonderful song...what is the tune?

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 08:26 AM

Lynne - I don't know whether Mig wrote the tune or not. I've asked JennyO if she has any more info.

sandra

here's his website with info about the song & the double album of Sydney session singers 'The people have songs'
http://www.users.bigpond.com/mheatwole/Miguel's website

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: JennyO
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 08:52 AM

Hi Lynne. It's an original tune, I'm pretty sure. Miguel wrote it as well as the words.

It's really something to hear a room full of singers raising the roof and holding the chord looooooooooooooooooooong.

Now I'm wondering if he might have sung it in the Middle Bar when we (The Solidarity Choir) were at Sidmouth in 2001. Were you at Sidmouth that year, Lynne?

Jenny

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: Morticia
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 09:22 AM

I have a recording of that song Lynne, thanks to the wonderful Freda.....I can do you a copy once I am moved and sorted, if you like?

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: Morticia
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 09:23 AM

Oh and by the way, of course you can sing.......heard you lots of times!

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: GUEST,JennyO
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 10:34 AM

Oh good. Sounds like you'll be able to hear it! I was wondering how to make that happen - I should have known freda would have spread a few around.

Jenny

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 11:39 AM

I remember Migeul singing it in the Middle Bar - it was one of those goosebump songs; the sort you hear for th first time and feel as though you'\ve known it all your life.
And Lynne, of course you can sing. I've heard you, and you're a darned sight better than a fair few I've heard in the Middle Bar.
As for being 'slightly sharp'; horsefeathers! Compared to what, for heaven's sake? A pub full of noisy b*ggers. Confidence, lass, that's all you need - and keep singing. I'd like to hear you sing more - though a black polythene mute may not be a good idea ;-)

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: GUEST,Gervase
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 11:55 AM

Sorry, that last one was me with a dropped biscuit!

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 11:58 AM

Lynne - lucky you!

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 12:11 PM

Believe in yourself Lynne - look what it did for Robbie Williams!! Now he's a nose & throat specialist without the ear, but it's not stopped him!

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 12:13 PM

"Now I shall go out and od it more often!"

I have yet to find a good excuse for NOT singing!

Get 'em Lynne!

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: Malc R
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 12:29 PM

"I have yet to find a good excuse for NOT singing"

- You haven't heard me then >:o(

I 'sing'(if that is what passes for the sound that comes from my lips), in the key of Chubb, and I can't hold a note or carry a tune.

You know some singers put a finger in their ear when singing, well when I sing they put fingers in both ears. I have sung on karaoke, but only when they wanted to clear the room at the end of the night.

It's not an excuse, I know, it's a fact all the same.

Lynne - Good for you, keep going and prove the critics wrong :o)

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: Moonunit
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 12:50 PM

Of course you can sing, and what's more, you can hold a key whilst squiffy (a valuable skill). Keep eating those vodka soaked, chocolate covered strawberries - it did wonders for my voice!

MU x

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 01:32 PM

Congratulations. I had the same experience with my recorder playing. Made a tape and discovered that little clicks and gulps that were bothering me couldn't be heard from a small distance.

Encouraging news for all of us, I think.

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 01:38 PM

Way to go Lynne, I've never heard a criticism of that sort that I agreed with.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: frogprince
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 01:44 PM

Someone make a clicky out of this for me, please wouldja?
   www.geocities.com/jadelapeer/thisonepage

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: Micca
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 01:50 PM

here you are Fp, but it dont seem to work Blue click here

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: frogprince
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 02:06 PM

Thanks for tryin', Micca; I just typed it in my regular search line at the top of the page (Juno) and it worked from there.

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: MBSLynne
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 03:32 PM

Aw..thanks guys.....

Yes Morti, I'd love a copy please.

Yes I was in Sidmouth in 2001 but may have missed that....I was spending less time in the Middle Bar at that stage due to young children.

Moonunit....hopefully vodka strawberry chocolates coming to Miskin! And chocolate covered celery too!

Well on the strength of my boosted confidence, I've already learnt THREE new songs! You guys may live to regret being so encouraging!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From:
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 04:37 PM

Almost forgot....

Make sure you have a good time while singing. It should always be a fun thing.

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: MBSLynne
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 05:04 PM

That's the only reason I do it! In fact..that should be the same for everything you do!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 05:29 PM

My wholly admirable daughter, when she was about 5, was told by a girl friend with one of those squeaky voices "Rachel, your voice is awful".

Rachel is now 23, can knock down the walls of Jericho over 3 octaves, and has led two bands. Her first, called "Torniquet" (not the Spanish god-rock band) was voted "best band ever to play here" in a pub that has had Deep Purple, Whitesnake, and Madness, amongst others.

Her friend is married to a man who left her for 6 months, pregnant, and waiting for a council flat.

Keep singing. I hate my voice, but a professional said to me in a pub the other night "Well sung" - and it was an unaccompanied song too.

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 06:01 PM

Good attitude. Anyone who loves to sing can make that love be heard in their singing, and should NOT hold anything back.

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: goodbar
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 10:01 PM

my singing style is more like talking with rythm and a little melody. i'd be a shitty singer for a punk band.

but when me and my buddy jam i always sing and we have a good time. whateva.

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: GUEST,MurkeyChris
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 10:15 PM

I have a very limited voice and a friend recently pointed out I sing nearly every song in A! But it's better than not singing at all!

Chris

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: JennieG
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 01:04 AM

I have been the victim of "constructive criticism" of my singing which in the circumstances was just another term for "put-down". Took me years to recover. I know I don't have a wonderful voice but it doesn't stop me singing.

"How can I keep from singing......"

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: GUEST,James H
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 06:53 AM

just been reading all this (well done btw Lynne, must confess the first time I heard my own voice recorded it had the opposite effect on me and I didn't sing again for ages, glad its been a good experience for you) and its been making me wonder if people think there is ever a place for genuinely constructive criticism?

I am not talking about people making intential snipes under the guise of being 'helpful'.

Just that, if you are a more confident/experienced singer than someone else and you've got an observation of their technique that you think would help them, is it best to keep quiet in case you knock their confidence with an implied criticism? Maybe it depends how well you know the person I guess...

Other side of the coin - if somebody at a singaround or club has a truly painful vocal delivery is it fair if everybody claps enthusiastically and lets them think it was great? I've seen it happen. Always seems to happen to the people who for whatever reason are not progressing very quickly or indeed at all, and there's always a bit of me meanly wondering whether they just don't realise how bad they are and whether a very tactfully worded hint or two might encourage them to work on it a bit more before inflicting it on other people. Or is that just me being heartless? (I never do say anything btw, I'm not THAT mean).

the thing I'm wondering - I truly believe that everybody can sing and should be encouraged to sing and that treating people's confidence with respect is very important, BUT that the voice is an instrument like anything else and to make a pleaseing sound with it you have to work and practice. why therefore do some singers never progress, never learn words, never learn to sing in tune or project their voices succesfully? Is it partly because they do not receive any properly constructive criticism because their nearest and dearest are too afraid to knock their confidence by saying anything?


James

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: MBSLynne
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 07:34 AM

James, I do think that constructive criticism can be very helpful..I've been grateful for some I've had over the years from better singers than me, but I think you have to put it VERY tactfully if you are not to knock people's confidence.

I do also think that it is right to applaud enthusiastically, anyone who is brave enough to get up and sing in front of an audience,,,just for doing it. While, perhaps, everybody can sing to some extent, there is a point past which any individual can't progress...their own personal limit. yes, practice will improve anyone's playing or singing up to that limit. Consequently, some people will never get past 'painful'. It would be unkind and pointless to tell them they're painful (even if you don't put it that way). Constructive criticism yes, but that's only going to help up to a certain point.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 11:20 AM

"I have a very limited voice and a friend recently pointed out I sing nearly every song in A! But it's better than not singing at all!"

You can always put a capo on (tight) and sing instantly in a higher register!

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: GUEST, Hamish
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 11:34 AM

Allied to your point on applause, James, I've noticed that the level of joining in on choruses is often inversely proportional to how well the leader sings. It's as if the "audience" are over compensating for the singer's inadequacies and are trying to help them keep in tune/keep in time/go faster/go slower. Or just drown them out. Whereas a really magical singer will be more likely to be listened to: even if there's a chorus which you'd expect to be joined in on.

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: Justa Picker
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 12:24 PM

Why don't we see what Simon Cowell says? :-)

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: GUEST,Trio
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 01:34 PM

Da Da Da Da! I guess that makes a quartet really doesn't it?

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: Peter T.
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 01:39 PM

Find a singing teacher as your next step!!! The one I go to has many students who are of different ages, most of whom were discouraged. They have all improved dramatically over the two years I have been watching master classes, etc. A good teacher can work out with you how to improve your ear, find out your real range (you may be surprised how many more notes are actually in there!), teach you how to focus, and how to sell a song.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 11:16 PM

I liked Miguel's song so much, I wrote a parody of it. Unfortunately there's not much of an audience for it, won't be until the day they start holding math conferences at folk festivals, but here it is:

Here are squares and triangles, here are cubes and quadrangles
Here are measures of volume, of surface, and path
Here are bold exponentials, and smooth differentials
And circumferentials - the people have Math!

Chorus:

Let us spring into action at the sight of subtraction
Let us cry, "Archimedes!" as we bolt from the bath
See the exponents rise, computing their size
With our thetas and pis - the people have Math!

There's a second stanza, but I think I'll quit while I'm behind.

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 06:33 AM

As Miguel says in the intro to this song 'My friends have flattered me with 2 fine parodies'

Gerry, is yours one of these 2, or do we have 3 now?

freda, author of "The Peope have Thongs' - where are you? (by the way, those thongs are footwear - not what some might be thinking)

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 06:40 AM

Tell you what, Lynne. I shall go to Miskin just to hear you sing.

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 07:09 AM

Thank you Robbie...I hope I don't disappoint you! I now have four new songs ready!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 12:04 PM

"While, perhaps, everybody can sing to some extent, there is a point past which any individual can't progress"

Fair comment - but the problem is in knowing where that point is

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: My guru always said
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 02:40 PM

Hey Lynne, you could have fooled me... No, I mean about your concern about your singing. I've never heard you sing sharp or anything like that & have wondered why you don't sing more. Glad you've dispelled those ghosts, we all have them. Hear you at Miskin then *grin*

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 06:23 PM

Yes, Sandra, mine is one of the two.

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 05:43 AM

Just got back from Miskin where I have had the wonderful experience of singing in a group of others with harmonies etc...I soooo enjoyed it.

Ok Hils...p'rpas I can sing a bit! I certainly enjoyed the singing with you...our voices seem to go together rather well. Look forward to doing more with the Middle Bar Babes at Sidmouth!!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing!
From: Snuffy
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 08:31 AM

You (and the other "Lynnettes") were absolutely brilliant at Miskin. Don't stop now - onwards and upwards, at least until you bang your head on the ceiling! :>)