BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 09:08 PM

So what Bill D. So fucking what?


guest, don't worry. I don't think we care that much any more. We've watched some countries just go down the tubes further and further in Europe.

Gee, why are so many still banging down the doors to immigrate to the US every day still?

Could be because of the desperation and dead end in pathetic countries like yours, Guest. Like a place where you can speak your mind and not be arrested and executed for it?

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: GUEST,Fred
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 09:54 PM

[bleep] (for antisocial behavior) I apologize to everyone on mudcat for the behavior of Martin Gibson, but it is not his fault.

It is mine.

Martin is a very loving person (in the literal sense) and after I visit him for a night, he is calm for several days. My work load has been too much for the last few weeks, and I have not had a chance to be with him.

I accept all blame for his being upset.

I'll try to get up there to see him sometime this weekend. Then I'm sure you will see a much more relaxed Martin Gibson.

Love you, Martin Sweetie...

Fred

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 10:39 PM

Where we are free to speak our minds, unless one is attending a Shrub public appearance:

Washington, DC - This morning, the Associated Press is reporting that the director of the Secret Service office in Denver is investigating claims that local residents were blacklisted from an public appearance by President George W. Bush in Colorado last week.

The investigation was opened on the heels of numerous published reports that the White House is adopting a tactic used by the Bush-Cheney campaign last year to exclude residents from otherwise public appearances by the President. Below is a DNC research document with the published reports of others who were blacklisted in the last seven weeks from Bush-led town hall meetings on Social Security.
White House Employing 2004 Campaign Tactics at Bush Events

During the 2004 campaign, the RNC ripped up tickets and removed Democrats and others waiting in line to see the President at private campaign rallies. This practice has now been copied by the White House, who now also screens those with tickets to see the President pitch his domestic agenda, including Social Security. The difference is that these recent Bush events are taxpayer-funded and should be open to the public.

February 3rd: Fargo, ND

40 People Barred From Bush Event in North Dakota; White House Says "List" Created by Volunteers. "Not everyone was welcome, apparently, at President Bush's speech in North Dakota yesterday. The Fargo Forum reported that a city commissioner, a liberal radio producer, a deputy Democratic campaign manager and a number of university professors were among more than 40 area residents who were barred from attending the Bush event. Their names were on a list supplied to workers at two ticket distribution sites." The White House "said the list may have come from volunteers; it did not come from the White House." [Washington Post, 2/4/05]

March 21st: Denver, CO

Two Men Removed From Bush's Denver Event.

"The man near the entrance of George Bush's nonpolitical, taxpayer-financed 'town hall' meeting Monday stopped Karen Bauer and Leslie Weise. He directed the two Denver women toward a man in a smiley-face tie. 'You've been ID'd,' the second man told them. Bauer and Weise were amazed. Hidden under their business suits, the members of the group Denver Progressives wore T-shirts that said 'Stop the lies.' Along with another Denver Progressives member, Alex Young, they planned to expose the T-shirts as the president talked about Social Security. … Soon, a stocky man with a shaved head, an earpiece and a red lapel pin arrived. He never identified himself as a Secret Service agent, but he did have a message. 'He said we were allowed to go in, but if we caused any problems, we'd be taken to jail,' said Bauer, a 38-year-old marketing coordinator." [Denver Post, 3/23/05]

Secret Service Said They Were on a "List" Provided by the GOP. According to Lon Garner, special agent in charge of the Secret Service's Denver district, "his agents don't remove people from presidential gatherings unless they break the law. The Republican staff, on the other hand, may ask people to leave, Garner said. And like the Secret Service, they also wear lapel pins and earpieces.' Garner said he understood that Republicans had two names on a 'list.'" [Denver Post, 3/23/05]

Colorado GOP Later Confirmed that it was a White House Event; Nevertheless, GOP Organizers Told them it was a "Private Event." "More than an hour before the president arrived, Bauer, Weise and Young were ordered to leave the Wings Over the Rockies Museum. … 'The guy said, 'If the staff asks you to leave, you have to leave. This is a private event.'' It wasn't. Bush's Denver appearance probably cost taxpayers tens of thousands in jet fuel, room rent and personnel. 'This was an official White House event and not a political event,' Colorado GOP executive director David Wardrop explained." [Denver Post, 3/23/05]

Secret Service Now Investigating. "The U.S. Secret Service on Monday said it was investigating the claims of three people who said they were removed from President Bush's town hall meeting on Social Security last week after being singled out because of a bumper sticker on their car." [Rocky Mountain News, 3/29/05]
March 22nd: Tuscon, AZ

University of Arizona Student Had Ticket Ripped Up and was Denied Entrance to White House Event; Student Placed on "List". "UA Young Democrat Steven Gerner, a political science and pre-pharmacy sophomore, said he and three other Young Democrats had been waiting in line with their tickets for about 40 minutes when a staff member approached him and asked to read his T-shirt. Gerner was the only one of the four wearing a UAYD T-shirt, which read, 'Don't be a smart (image of a donkey, the Democratic Party symbol). UA Young Democrats.' Gerner said the staffer, who refused to provide his name, asked for Gerner's ticket and crumpled it up. The staffer walked away, returned in 20 minutes, and told Gerner his name had been added to a list banning him from entering the convention center for the speech." Gerner received his ticket from Representative Grijalva's (D-AZ) office and his name was printed on the ticket. [Arizona Daily Wildcat, 3/22/05, http://wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/98/118/01_2.html]

Facility Administrators Said Orders Came from the White House; Secret Service Confirms that Event Organizers Were in Charge. "Kate Calhoun, TCC sales and marketing manager, said the venue's staff did not control entrance to the event, but said the Secret Service was taking tickets and exercising 'no discrimination whatsoever.' 'The venue does not issue or check or take tickets,' Calhoun said. 'It's coming straight from the White House - we rent them our space and don't get involved. It was a smooth operation from start to finish, and I did not see anyone denied entry.' Jonathan Cherry, Secret Service spokesman, said the Secret Service was not taking tickets at the event. 'The host committee controls who gets in and who gets out,' Cherry said. 'Secret Service agents are not ticket takers.'" [Arizona Daily Wildcat}

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 01:29 AM

I'm pretty amazed at all this. All I did try to say was that when the Soviet Union wanted to get rid of totalitarianism, they tossed out the many good aspects of Socialism with the baby and the washwater of Communism. --- The current president of the USA has seen the void left by the demise of some of the credibility of the left and is tossing out so many programs that the disadvantaged need here that it makes the landscape in this country rather ugly from where I sit watching it all go down--no matter what kind of chair I am utilizing these days. In the name of democracy, they are making the world safe for their brand of extreme capitalism, and that's about all. My feelings are my feelings just like the profane poster's feelings are his own. I do try to put my thoughts down here in this forum without bending folks out of shape, but I guess I've not succeeded in doing that.

The people I've come to enjoy, respect, like, and even love here at Mudcat are all those the offending one doesn't seem to appreciate much at all. Mainly, that makes me feel pretty good about myself though.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: kendall
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 08:00 AM

And why shouldn't Bush and his gang refuse to admit people who are not supporters? Compared to what they did in Florida, (eliminating thousands of voters) this is peanuts.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 09:07 AM

Kendalldarlin', it may be peanuts, but in the long run, I know you know, it adds up and most of these were PUBLIC functions. It is insidious and, imo, has long-ranging ramifications, as did the voting in FL whihc you mention.

Dear Fine Art, you SHOULD feel pretty good about yourself!Feck all to the naysayers, you've got Spaw's Posse in yer back pocket, pahdnuh!*BG**

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 11:47 AM

Yeah, sure do.....But I gotta' tell ya' Art, there are a lot of 'Catters getting down on Shambles real bad for posting the same stuff over and over. Now on that one, I stood up for Roger because if they make that into a big deal, then you and I are in big trouble around here!!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Once Famous
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 12:02 PM

Ha!

another thread that turns into an anti-american, anti-Bush, anti-establishment thing.

It's all you liberally diseased know and think about.

Losers!

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: gnu
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 12:18 PM

Hehehe!! I don't know why, but that just cracked me up. I guess I am a loser because I must be losing it. Oh, MG. At least you have helped some of us pass the wind, er, ah, time.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 03:51 PM

"... liberally diseased ..."

does the AMA know about this? Can Johns Hopkins cure it? I wonder where I caught it...from reading rational writings, perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: kendall
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 04:01 PM

Bill, you keep reading that real history stuff and whatever makes sense what do you expect to happen?

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Once Famous
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 04:06 PM

Bill D. you can be cured of it perhaps by getting fucked over by the ACLU.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 04:12 PM

You gotta be careful, Martin...the ACLU is a group that would take YOUR case if some raving, rabid, liberal bit you on the butt for speaking out.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Once Famous
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 04:18 PM

I don't need the ACLU for that. I'd just find some bluegrass redneck to kick their butt.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 04:29 PM

FIND? You don't do your own butt kicking? hmmmmmmm....

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Once Famous
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 04:43 PM

Oh, I'd pay someone younger and stronger. wouldn't want to hurt my hands that make such fine music.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 04:50 PM

oh, I see

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Once Famous
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 04:52 PM

Yes, I believe they are capable. They would easily be able to stick all of their bows ups some old hippie's ass at once.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: kendall
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 05:57 PM

I had an invitation to join the ACLU but there is no way. Ever since they supported the Nazis "right" to march through Cicero Ill. a heavily Jewish community, I have avoided them. There is a difference between freedom and license.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Once Famous
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 06:02 PM

Kendall, Cicero, Illinois is a corrupt western suburb with latinos and Italians fighting for power.

Where you are thinking of is Skokie, Il which is a northern suburb, heavily Jewish, adjacent to the heavily Jewish suburb where I live.

Skokie has had a large amount of holocaust survivors and children of such.

Just want to set the record straight. The ACLU it seems supports many Nazi causes over the years as well as just about everything else that is distatefully politically correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 06:23 PM

Kendall, that case was also handled by a Jewish ACLU attorney. The ACLU protects rights and not beliefs. It seems to be a hard concept to understand but it is the basis for the Constitution, BoR and the other amendments.

And far from being PI in the current sense, the ACLU is about as NON-PI as you can get. You have certain rights that come with responsibilities granted under the Constitution and they are yours no matter how distasteful your belief may be. It is also not surprising that the ACLU has a high percentage of Jewish membership because they have experienced first hand the tyranny of "and then they came for me."

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Amos
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 06:26 PM

Goodly words, Spaw.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 07:24 PM

As much as I despise Nazis, denying them the right to march in Illinois would have opened the door for others to be denied the right to march in Anytown, USA. That is the right that the ACLU was defending.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:sUf6EvfpKeMJ:www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/ii781111.html+Skokie,+Illinois,+ACLU&hl=en&client=firefox-a

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: kendall
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 08:25 PM

Yes, I mis spoke, it was Skokie. Their "right" to march in that community was nothing more than the "right" to incite a riot. That, in my opinion is not a right at all. I'm as liberal as they come but I'll be damned if I would stand by and watch a bunch of ignorant pinheads persecute and intimidate Jews. They may have had a legal right to march, but surely not a moral one.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 08:54 PM

That's a very nice article brucie. Thanks for that link. It explains the entire situation about as simplistically as I have ever seen it. The last lines written by the judge at the very bottom are an excellent synopsis of why it pays to protect the rights of even the most rabid and distasteful groups.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Once Famous
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 10:51 PM

Hey Kendall. Now if you just felt that way about the bunch of ignorant pinheads who persecute and intimidate Jews on Mudcat.

It's happening here, believe me.

Some of you should wear your armbands under your shirt, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 11:06 PM

Zzzzzzz.........

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Once Famous
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 11:14 PM

Wesley, Jesus doesn't like stalkers.

He punishes them.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 11:29 PM

Nobody on Mudcat, pinheads or otherwise, persecute Jews, Martin. If you feel like you're being persecuted (which you are not, by the way), it's not because you are Jewish, it's because the decent people here are reacting to the fact that you are a thoroughly unpleasant human being.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 12:51 PM

I know the person posting under that name has repeately said that the character presented is a fictitious one, intended to get up the nose of people he (or she) doesn't like. What I'm not clear is whether that includes the alleged Judaism of that character.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 12:56 PM

Ha! what a riot!

Kind of like how I question the alleged intellectualism of quite a few here!

Guest, Observer, I will all so gently call you a liar.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: kendall
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 01:01 PM

Examples Martin???

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 01:02 PM

Too many to name, but you know who I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 01:15 PM

Zzzzzzz......

SOS { Same old S*** }

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 01:44 PM

It's much easier for one to feel that he or she is disliked because of the group to which they belong than it is for them to accept that the fault lies solely within themselves.

A Parable (also a true story):—

I once knew a man who felt he was being discriminated against. We'll call him Ed. He said was an actor. Yet, he had never had any training as an actor. He had a small part in a high school play once, but since then he had not acted on stage, on television, or in the movies. Not once.

As proof that he was being discriminated against, he often cited the occasion when he auditioned for the part of Othello. Othello was a black man. Ed was a black man. He didn't get the role. The role was given to a white actor, who, of course, would have to wear dark make-up in order to look the part. The white actor, incidentally, had an MA in dramatic arts, with considerable additional training, and he had acted in several plays, including Shakespeare.

This was not the only reason he felt discriminated against, but it was something fairly specific that he could point to, which he did repeatedly. In life, he had cast himself in the role of "The Victim."

I was sitting in a restaurant in the University District one day, and in the booth next to mine sat Ed and a young black woman. He was regaling her with his usual litany of affronts to which he had been subjected. It began to verge on whining. At length, the young woman slid out of the booth and stood over him with her hands on her hips and said, "Ed, people don't dislike you because you're black. They dislike you because you are a complete jerk!"

She turned on her heel and walked out of the restaurant.

Submitted for your contemplation.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: kendall
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 05:55 PM

Old Jewish proverb...If a man calls you an ass, you can ignore him. However, if TWO men call you an ass, get a saddle."

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 06:40 PM

I think on that basis there are very few of who would not be wearing saddles by the time we are through... (Especially if "men" is taken to include "women", as I rather assume is the case.)