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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 Apr 05 - 07:21 PM Interesting that "Long Live the Pope" never seems to have made it across the Atlantic. The tune hasn't got the punch of "God Bless Our Pope", which has a great chorus, what with the repeats. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: SINSULL Date: 08 Apr 05 - 07:05 PM You know how it is Joe...you can't help but love the music of your childhood. |
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Subject: Long Live the Pope From: OtherDave Date: 08 Apr 05 - 06:55 PM We had very old hymnals at my boarding school (in the late 1960s) and so I have not only heard but sung "Long Live the Pope." It was a favorite of mine, being so out of touch with Vatican II (the song, not me). I can attest that when John Paul I (not II) was elected, 27 years ago, "Long Live the Pope" was played at a Catholic church in Fairfax, Virginia. The organist (a non-Catholic, as it happens) was the only person to sing it. I could have joined in, but it was all I could do to keep from laughing out loud. To Dave's wife (not this Dave's), yes, Pius IX was pope at the time of the first Vatican Council (ca 1870), which approved the doctrine of papal infallibility. Pius was also the only Pope in office longer than John Paul II was. The only dogma officially promulgated since then that met the 'solemn magisterium' tests was that of the assumption of Mary, put forth by Pius XII in 1950. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: GUEST,Dave'sWife at work Date: 08 Apr 05 - 06:17 PM Wow. I hadn't thought of this hmyn in many years. I was told by the Nuns back around the time that JP II was touring the USA for the 1st time that it was a hymn written for Pope Pius the the 9th (???) who was the Pope who insituted Papal Infallibility and the doctrine of The Immaculate Conception of Mary. That would make it well before 1908 but that wouldn't be the first time somebody thought a Hymn was older than it really was, would it? Do I have the right Pope? I recall being told it was about the Pope who who did those things but my memory of Popes prior to one in office at the time my birth is now kinda spotty. I used to know them all in order, but alas.. when one lapses.. you jettison that kind of thing from your memopry so you can stuff in 18 new verses of Skibereen! LOL |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 Apr 05 - 05:00 PM "Sto Lat" - "May you live for a hundreed years", sort of Polish equivalent of "For he's a jolly good fellow" - this page has the words, the notes, and a link to a sound file. Good tune. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: GOD BLESS OUR POPE (Cardinal Wiseman) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 Apr 05 - 08:03 AM "Long live the Pope" I've never heard. But "God Bless Our Pope" I can remember - written by Cardinal Wiseman in England back in mid-Victorian times. You need to recognise it in its context, as a hymn for a church in England that was very much under pressure, and held in distrust and contempt by the people in power. In that context I'd suggest it wasn't so much triumphalist as a way of asserting a claim to respect by people not held in much respect by the society in which they lived. Subsequently things changed. The only times I've heard it sung or quoted it felt a bit tongue in cheek. Full in the panting heart of Rome Beneath the apostle's crowning dome, From pilgrims' lips that kiss the ground Breathes in all tongues one only sound: "God Bless our Pope, God Bless our Pope, God Bless our Pope, the great, the good. The golden roof, the marble walls, The Vatican's majestic halls The note redoubles, till it fills With echoes sweet the seven hills: "God Bless our Pope..." Then surging through each hallowed gate, Where martyrs glory, in peace, await, It sweeps beyond the solemn plain, Peals over Alps, across the main: "God Bless our Pope..." From torrid south to frozen north, That wave harmonious stretches forth, Yet strikes no chord more true to Rome's Than rings within our hearts and homes: "God Bless our Pope..." |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: *daylia* Date: 08 Apr 05 - 07:57 AM The Pope's own words on Sacred Music ..."The musical tradition of all the Church constitutes a patrimony of inestimable value, which exceeds that of other expressions of art, especially by the fact that sacred song, united to words, is a necessary and integral part of the solemn Liturgy"... 3. On several occasions I have also recalled the valuable function and the great importance of music and of song for more active and intense participation at liturgical celebrations, and I have emphasized the necessity to "purify worship from ugliness of style, from distasteful forms of expression, from uninspired musical texts which are not worthy of the great act that is being celebrated", in order to ensure dignity and integrity of forms to liturgical music. Another principle ... is that of goodness of form. There can be no music destined for the celebration of the sacred rites that be not first "true art", capable of having that efficacy "which the Church intends to obtain by receiving into her liturgy the art of sounds". And still such quality by itself is not enough. Liturgical music must indeed comply with its specific requirements: full adherence to the texts that it presents, consonance with the liturgical season and moment to which it is destined, adequate correspondence to the gestures that the rite proposes... Song and music demanded by the liturgical reform -- it is well to emphasize -- must also respond to the legitimate demands of adaptation and of inculturation. Yet it is clear that every innovation in this delicate area must respect special criteria, such as the search for musical expressions that answer to the necessary involvement of the entire assembly in the celebration and that avoid, at the same time, whatever concession to levity or to superficiality...[T]he sacred sphere of the liturgical celebration must never become a laboratory for experimentation or compositional and performance practices introduced without careful control. Even so, what style of music was the Pope's personal favorite? Why,Polish folk music of course! "PHILADELPHIA (AP) - It wasn't a prayer or a blessing or a personal word that cemented Steve Koszelak's connection to the pope - it was music. A Polish drinking song and a Polish tribute to mothers, played out with strings and accordions. John Paul tapped his fingers and toes as Philadelphia's Polish American String Band, decked out in the full sequin-and-feather regalia they wore for the city's flamboyant Mummers Parade, played for thousands at a general audience at the Vatican in 1998. The crowd didn't matter, said Koszelak, an accordion player. The group had researched the pope's favorite songs from his Polish homeland, choosing "Sto Lat," a drinking song that was a march, and a slow, melodic religious song that Koszelak said translated as "A Tribute to Mothers." "As he was leaving, he turned and looked at us and shook his cane like he was doing the Mummers strut," he said. "You could tell he really enjoyed it." |
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Subject: Lyr Add: JOHN PAUL II From: *daylia* Date: 08 Apr 05 - 07:33 AM And another special song for Pope John Paul JOHN PAUL II Holy Father Here we gather John Paul II We love you (repeat) Chorus You're the Roman Pontiff You're the Vicar of Christ In the words that you speak to us And the letters you write You bring hope to our lives You're the Shepherd of Bishops You're the voice of the Church Your holiness nourishes All across this earth You bring hope to our lives You're the Valiant Defender Of our beautiful faith You're the Pilgrim Leader Of World Youth Day You bring hope to our lives © 2003 Lily Productions/Erin Berghouse |
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Subject: Lyr Add: HEAVEN'S MAKIN ROOM FOR POPE JOHN PAUL From: *daylia* Date: 08 Apr 05 - 07:18 AM For your pious listening pleasure - a musical tribute to the late Pope by Dr. Bruce L Theissen, aka Dr BLT HEAVEN'S MAKIN ROOM FOR POPE JOHN PAUL "Where the mountains touch the sky When the Heavens open up so wide They're makin room in Heaven tearin down the walls Heaven's makin room for Pope When the eagles up above Scatter all around with hawks and precious doves They make an opening so wide and tall Heaven's makin room for Pope John Paul CHORUS Heaven's gates turn with the tide And a choir of angels sing Jesus sits with arms outstretched and open wide Can you hear the choir sing Can you hear their beck and call Heaven's makin room for Pope John Paul The passion of the Pope filling the world with hope His presence was there when they tore down the wall Heaven's makin some room for Pope John Paul (Repeat verses/chorus) |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: mg Date: 08 Apr 05 - 05:54 AM on earth's battlefield never a standard we'll yield as dauntlessonly on we go....for the king's white and blue for our flag for our faith for Christ the King How could anyone not like Holy God we praise thy name...that is an all time great song. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: Joe Offer Date: 08 Apr 05 - 03:14 AM Hi, Haruo - I can't find a Daniel Lord hymn titled "Holy God We Praise Thy Name." The song of that title that I know is the one you speak of - an English translation of the "Te Deum," set to a German tune. It's an oldie, but I like it. I think that Fred Moleck may have been wrong about that one being by Daniel Lord, S.J. I have to admit that I'm not familiar with the "Te Deum" in Gregorian Chant. It's often talked about, but seldom heard. Moleck does have some interesting stuff about Catholic hymns and church music - you can find an archive of his articles at the GIA Publications Website here (click). Last year, Moleck did a lecture at Notre Dame titled Response to the Michael Mathis Award: Music and Liturgy Before and After the Second Vatican Council. It's a good lecture. The lecture text has the lyrics to "Army of Youth," and another truly corny song, "I Am a Little Catholic." Here's the part I remember from "Army of Youth":
Flying the standards of truth, We're fighting for Christ, the Lord. Heads lifted high, Catholic Action our cry, And the Cross our only sword. In the late 1960's, while I was in the seminary there, the Archdiocese of Milwaukee banned a number of truly tacky traditional hymns from worship - mostly the really sentimental Mary hymns, and a few others that had strange theology. There was an uproar in some of the parishes for a while, but the people eventually got over it. I'm sure that "Little Catholic" and "Army of Youth" were candidates for being Banned in Milwaukee. "Long Live the Pope" probably made the list, too. Sinsull, did you actually like that song? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: Haruo Date: 08 Apr 05 - 01:07 AM I can tell I am not Recent American Catholic enough for this discussion! I read "This "Catholic classic" ranks up there with "Holy God, We Praise Thy Name" and "An Army of Youth" by Daniel Lord, SJ" and thought only the latter was by Daniel Lord; I assumed "Holy God, We Praise Thy Name" meant the English version of "Te Deum laudamus" (via the German Grosser Gott, wir loben dich). In any event Long live the Pope is not by any stretch in a league with the Te Deum in whatever language. I think I may put it (in Esperanto, of course) in the Esperanto worship service I'll be leading in Austin in June. Haruo |
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Subject: Lyr Add: LONG LIVE THE POPE From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Apr 05 - 09:03 PM You're THAT old, Sinsull? [wicked grin] -Joe, who may be older, but he comes from a progressive upbringing- I think the GIA Article merits copy-pasting. I don't think Moleck is advocating the use of this hymn. I see no comparison to "Te Deum," which is a classic hymn. Moleck compares the song to the rousing Daniel Lord anthems, "Holy God We Praise Thy Name" (which I happen to like, although I hate myself for liking it) and "An Army of Youth" (a really dorky song which I have sung many times in a mocking tone) Table Talk by Fred Moleck
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: SINSULL Date: 07 Apr 05 - 09:02 PM In fact, somewhere I have a recording of this sung by Frank Patterson. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: SINSULL Date: 07 Apr 05 - 09:00 PM Bad news, Joe. We sang this right up into the 60s at OLG in Howard Beach usually at Confirmation. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: Haruo Date: 07 Apr 05 - 08:54 PM This recent but ante-mortem page at GIA's site gives a little additional information, but appears to place the song on a level with the Te Deum, which strikes me as all too far-fetched. Haruo |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:04 PM Could be, Haruo, but I think I've been around the Catholic Church long enough to know that songs like that are no longer used in common practice. It's one of the few songs written to honor the Pope, so I suppose that some lunatic is going to use it in his presence once in a while. The texts of most current Catholic hymns come from Scripture, not from sentimental Victorian poets. Remember that the song was written in 1908, a different age. At the time, the popes were self-imposed "Prisoners of the Vatican," refusing to leave the Vatican until a concordat was reached with Italy, establishing rights for the Church and compensating the Church for the loss of the Papal States. I won't say whether it was right or wrong to sign a concordat with Musssolini, but the Concordat was signed in 1929. After that, the popes traveled a bit - but nobody went very far until John Paul II became the first non-Italian pope in centuries. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: Haruo Date: 07 Apr 05 - 12:24 PM According to one of the websites I consulted, it was sung to the pope's face in St Louis a few years ago (1999? I've lost track) when John Paul visited the US. Haruo |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Apr 05 - 05:09 AM OK, so here's the MIDI transcribed from a 1960's reprint of the 1920/1941 St. Gregory Hymnal and Catholic Choir Book. Mind you, I have never heard this song sung in a Catholic church or institution. If it were to be sung at the seminary I attended in the 1960's, it would have been greeted with catcalls and ridicule. It really is a corny song. Maybe people did sing it during the first half of the 20th century, but not very often since 1950, I'll bet. I tried to find "God Bless Our Pope," but didn't have any luck. This page (click) is supposed to have MIDI files for both songs, but I couldn't get through. Maybe it's really popular, now that the Pope's dead and all. -Joe Offer- Click to playClick to play (Harmony version) |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: Haruo Date: 07 Apr 05 - 04:29 AM For the record, I am a Baptist. We are a schismatic sect that follows the Fourteenth Apostle, Martin Bapt, inventor of the Church Potluck. ;-) Haruo good off-the-cuff spelling rule, Alexander! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 06 Apr 05 - 06:54 PM The Cookie Monster got ya! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: GUEST,Alexander Date: 06 Apr 05 - 06:46 PM For Harou read Haruo. Sorry about that!! I must remember the rule u before o except after c. Hey!! Who fired me? I used to be a large Member and now I'm a large Guest!! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: GUEST,Alexander Date: 06 Apr 05 - 06:42 PM What happened? The message left before I could write it!! Thank you for posting this Papal Hymn Harou. I can quote it to my Catholic friends and family and pretend to be learn-ed-id, like as wot as how you is!! warm smile. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: GUEST,Alexander Date: 06 Apr 05 - 06:38 PM |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: mandoleer Date: 06 Apr 05 - 05:35 PM Reminds me of when I was helping with a school talent show. In the auditions (Liverpool school, so enough talent to need auditions rather than pressgang!), one lad was great on the concertina. Trouble was, the majority of his repertoire had titles like 'Kick the Pope' and so on. We eventually found something that had a neutral title and he got through. (He was the son of an Orange Lodge member and played in their band, by the way.) |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: mg Date: 06 Apr 05 - 03:31 PM isn't there a song for bishops at elast? I remember veni sponsa Christi for when nuns are ??? vowed. In the Fatima hymn we pray for our pontiff in Rome... Anyone else Catholocentered and thought that the words to wayfaring stranger were I'm only going over Jordan I'm only going over Rome? mg |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: GUEST,Joe Offer Date: 06 Apr 05 - 02:31 PM Good find, Haruo! I've never heard a hymn sung in praise of the pope, and I've certainly never heard this one. I found the song in a 1960's reprint of the 1920/1941 St. Gregory Hymnal and Catholic Choir Book. My book says three hundred million. I guess it's like the changing signs McDonald's used to have, showing how many hundred million burgers they served. I'll see if I can get around to posting a MIDI later, so we can all sing it together when they elect a new pope in a couple of weeks. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: GUEST,Paul Burke Date: 06 Apr 05 - 03:28 AM From childhood days, I recall an atrocity called "God Bless Our Pope", which made its priorities clear: "The noble roof, the marble walls, The Vatican's majestic halls..." Truly spiritual. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: Long Live the Pope From: Haruo Date: 06 Apr 05 - 03:06 AM Papal Hymn according to one of my sources, Vatican II Hymnal published in 1974 by the Seattle Archdiocese, the author (or translator?) was the "Rt. Rev. Msgr. Hugh T. Henry, Litt.D." and it is "Copyright 1908, J. Fischer Bro." As set in that hymnal to music by H. G. Ganss, the last two lines of each stanza are reduplicated. Long live the Pope! His praises sound Again and yet again: His rule is over space and time: His throne the heart of men: All hail! The Shepherd King of Rome, The theme of loving song: ||: Let all the earth his glory sing And heav'n the strain prolong. :|| Beleaguered by By the foes of earth, Beset by hosts of hell, He guards the loyal flock of Christ, A watchful sentinel: And yet, amid the din and strife, The clash of mace and sword, ||: He bears alone the Shepherd Staff, The champion of the Lord. :|| His signet is the fisherman's No scepter does he bear In meek and lowly majesty He rules from Peter's chair And yet from every tribe and tongue From every clime and zone ||: 600* million voices sound The glory of his throne :|| Then raise the chant, With heart and voice, In Church & school & home: "Long live the Shepherd of the Flock! Long live the Pope of Rome!" Almighty Father bless his work, Protect him in his ways, ||: Receive his prayer, fulfill his hopes, And grant him length of days! :|| *The 1974 Vatican II Hymnal reads "300 million", and I gather today's canonical figure is "A thousand million". The "600 million", a compromise, is from another of my sources. BTW, what if anything (other than popishness) does this song have to do with Palestrina's "Tu es Petrus" mass? Or to the "Inno e Marcia Pontificale", the national anthem of the Vatican City State (music by Gounod)? Haruo Click to playClick to play (Harmony version) |
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