Tune Req: Ellen Vannin

Subject: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: GUEST,stu2104
Date: 08 Apr 05 - 03:09 AM

Hi, Does anyone know where I could get a Wav or MP3 file for the song Ellen Vannin? Tried the obvious searches and thought I'd got it - by the Bee Gees!! But no, same title, wrong tune!!!

Cheers Stu2104

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Apr 05 - 03:22 AM

Hi, Stu - can you tell us which Ellen Vannin you want? A pharase or two from the song should be enough. The one about the loss of the ship is here (click) in the Digital Tradition, with tune. The poem titled "Ellan Vannin" is here (click) - no tune. Either of those the right one?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 08 Apr 05 - 03:28 AM

I think you may be talking about the Robin Gibb number. If this is the one you are looking for (which is fantastic), I can put a wav onto a CD for you and send it. PM me with details if you are interested.

WHB

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: Taffy2
Date: 08 Apr 05 - 11:01 PM

Hello, Joe.

This song was also sung by Kenneth McKellar.

Taffy2

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 09 Apr 05 - 09:02 PM

Loads of errors in the DT version of the Hughie Jones (it just says recorded by the Spinners in the dt) song including the spelling of the ship, the spelling of the captains name and the year of the disaster.

The Ellan Vannin Tragedy - Hugh E Jones

Source Hughie's Ditty Bag

Snaefell, Tyndwall and Ben-My-Chree,
Fourteen ships have sailed to sea.
Proudly bearing a Manx name,
But there's one will never again

Oh, Ellan Vannin, of the Isle of Man Company,
Oh, Ellan Vannin, lost in the Irish Sea.

At one a.m. in Ramsey Bay
Captain Teare was heard to say,
"Our contract says deliver the mail,
In this rough weather we must not fail."

Ocean liners sheltered from the storm,
Ellan Vannin on the waves was borne.
Her hold wase full and battened down,
As she sailed toward far Liverpool town

With her crew of twenty one Manxmen,
Her passengers Liverpool business men.
Farewell to Mona's Isle, farewell,
This little ship was bound for hell.

Less than a mile from the bar lightship,
Ellan Vannin by a wave was hit.
She sank in the waters of Liverpool Bay
And there she lies until this day.

Few Manxmen now remember
The third day of the month December
That terrible storm of Ninteen-O-Nine,
Ellan Vannin sailed for the very last time.

I'd wondered about Mona's Isle. A google search as found me this:

"The Ellan Vannin was originally built as an iron paddle steamer and named Mona's Isle". Constructed in Scotland by Tod & MacGregor at Meadowside, Glasgow in 1860 at a cost of 10,673UKL. She had a gross tonnage on building of 339 tons, top speed of 12 knots and an overall length of 63.09metres. She was launched on 10 April 1860.In 1883 the Mona's Isle was converted to a twin screw steamer by Westray, Copeland and Co. of Barrow and renamed Ellan Vannin on 16 November 1883.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: GUEST,stu2104
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 05:53 AM

Many thanks to all who have replied - sorry for the delay in replying as I've just come back from holiday !!

I have a MP3 file of the Bee Gee's version - I'll try a search against Kenneth McKellar.

Regards,

stu2104

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 02:08 PM

The music's still under copyright I think and is available in Hughie's book, which is available through my site, the 'official' Spinners site. Several other songs are listed for chords fans; I'd be very grateful for any others as I'm trying to build up a Spinners chords database for everybody's perusal.
The Spinners Website
[e-mail]
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 03:02 PM

They used to have the melody on this site. http://www.musicanet.org/robokopp/shanty/elenvann.htm
If you catch me on Paltalk you might catch the tune if I sing it for you.
Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 04:36 PM

That should be Tynwald (not Tyndwall) in the first line , by the way.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: clansfolk
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 02:50 PM

www.chanteycabin.co.uk

try the above link under artist Hughie Jones, or email Jan & Ken (fellow mudcatters) I'm sure they be able to point you in the direction of a CD or Cassette by the man himself

Pete

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: GUEST,Dave Hatton
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 02:59 PM

It's on 'Hughie's Ditty Bag' (FECD81) and the accompanying book has the tune and chords. Chantey Cabin has both or buy direct from Hughie via Spinners Website
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: Schantieman
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 03:50 AM

I thought Ellan Vannin was the Manx name for the Island itself, after which the ship is named.

If you like and you're still looking for the tune, I could ask Hughie for a copy next time I see him....although come to think of it he probably didn't write it down! Tell you what, phone me up and I'll sing it to you!   Or come to the Everyman FC in Liverpool one Tuesday and ask the man himself!

Steve

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: Jim McLean
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 12:16 PM

It was printed, words and music, in SPIN Vol.3 No.5 which I have. I can make a Midi and attach it to an email if you can't get it elsewhere. The notes say the ship was affectionately known as "Li'l Daisy"

Subject: DT Correction: Ellen Vannin
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 08:39 PM

Jon's corrected version may be better than this American one because it appears he got it direct from the songwriter's version, but I thought I'd post this one for comparison. Most of these corrections are minor, except for the year of the event. Note also the difference in the chorus. Anybody have a Hugh Jones or Spinners recording of the song? If so, can you double-check these lyrics?
-Joe Offer-


ELLEN VANNIN
(Hugh Jones, 1965)

SnaeFell, Tynwald and Benmy Chree,
Fourteen ships have sailed the sea.
Proudly bearing a Manx name,
But there's one will never again.

CHORUS:
Poor Ellen Vannin, lost in the Irish Sea.
Poor Ellen Vannin, lost in the Irish Sea.


At one a.m. in Ramsey Bay
Captain Teare was heard to say,
"Our contract says deliver the mail
In this rough weather we must not fail."

Ocean liners sheltered from the storm,
Ellen Vannin on the waves was borne,
Her hold was full and battened down
As she sailed toward far Liverpool town.

With her crew od twenty-one Manxmen,
Her passengers Liverpool businessmen,
Farewell to Mona's Isle, farewell,
This little ship was bound for hell.

Less than a mile from the bar lightship,
By a mighty wave Ellen Vannin was hit,
She sank in the waters of Liverpool Bay,
And there she lies until this day.

Few Manxmen now remember
The third day od the month December
That terrible storm of nineteen-O-nine
Ellen Vannin sailed the last time.


Notes: The Ellen Vannin, a small ship built in 1860, plied between Liverpool and the Isle of Man and was sunk in a stormy sea in 1909. Hugh Jones, a member of the Spinners folk song group, wrote this song with the assistance of Ted Hughes, retired engineer; Stan Hugill; and the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company.

Source: New English Broadsides: Songs of Our Time from the English Folk Scene (compiled by Nathan Joseph and Eric Winder, Oak Publications, 1967).

The tune in the Digital Tradition is exactly the tune found in New English Broadsides.

---

I thought I'd add this copy of a message from another thread so we'd have more complete origins information with the lyrics posts.

Thread #7931   Message #84323
Posted By: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
05-Dec-98 - 01:29 PM
Thread Name: Ellen Vannen
Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen


The name, 'Ellan Vannin' is the Manx Gaelic name for 'the island of Mannin', the Isle of Man, in the Irish Sea at the centre of the Celtic world, from where the great god, Manannan Mac Lir, rules the sea.

The vessel itself was called the 'Ellan Vannin', so perhaps you'll find it under that spelling. Just as a matter of interest, the vessel also had a nickname, the 'Li'l (Little) Daisy'.

On 3 December 1909, she left Ramsey in the Isle of Man to sail to Liverpool. As she was entering the River Mersey, she was apparently swamped by a wave which broke over her stern, and she sank with loss of all aboard.

The Isle of Man Steam Packet Company has never used the name 'Ellan Vannin' for any of its vessels since.

A great 20th Century collector of Manx folklore, music, dance, etc was Mona Douglas. According to Mona, her mother was heavily pregnant with Mona when she set off to visit relations in Liverpool in 1898. Unexpectedly, she went into early labour, so Mona Douglas says she was born on board the 'Ellan Vannin'.

Later, her father was due to go to Liverpool on board the 'Ellan Vannin', but Mona says she had some sort of vision of burning out on the sea, and she begged her father not to go. Her father was willing to humour her, so he didn't go. That was the night that the 'Ellan Vannin' went down.

The story of the wreck of the 'Ellan Vannin' was in a book by Fred Henry about the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company Ltd that big John Kaneen sent to Hughie Jones of The Spinners. Hughie made the song about the wreck of the 'Ellan Vannin' from the information there.

One more:

Thread #49474   Message #807800
Posted By: Wolfgang
12-Jul-02 - 05:43 AM
Thread Name: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin


Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin


and here is a summary of the entries in the BS-Quiz thread:

(1) (IanC) E - Strangely enough she was a man, though she sank in December.

(2) (Greg Stephens) Ellen Vannin

(3) (Sharon A) Ian: Okay, obviously I don't understand the clue for "E" (Ellen Vannin), since here across the pond I'm not familiar with the terminology for a person from the Isle of
Man. I've heard the term "Manx" as an adjective, but does one say "he (or she) is Manx" (as I would say "I'm American")? And does one say "he (or she) is a
Man" (as I would say "I'm an American" or "I'm a Pennsylvanian")? ...or would one say "Mannan", or "Mannish", or what?


By the way, here's a link to lyrics for "Ellen Vannin" (for anyone else who, like me, isn't familiar with the song):
http://www.molwert.de/Lieder/Ellen_Vannin_Tragedy.htm NOTE: An mp3 of the tune plays automatically when the page appears on-screen.

(4) (Greg Stephens) Ellen Vannin is Manx Gaelic for "Isle of Man"or Man for short. he's just saying it's odd that someone
called Ellen is (a)Man.

(5) (SharonA) Please do be picky! I noticed that, in the lyrics I linked, the Hughie Jones song is entitled "The Ellen Vannin Tragedy" but the name in the lyrics themselves is spelled
"Ellen Vannen"!



Then there are the Eliza Craven Green lyrics of 1854 which render it "Ellan Vannin" as Lucy says. See this page for lyrics and music:
http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fulltext/ms1896/p070.htm

So was the poster of the Hughie Jones lyrics not sufficiently concerned with accuracy? I did a Google search on all three spellings and got many hits for each, so I
can't even tell what the correct spelling of the ship's name was!!!

(6) (Greg Stephens) Manx Gaelic has a varied written history and both spellings are completely standard.However i must say I've
never seen a photo of the nameplate on the boat, so Lucy may well be completely correct that Ellan was what was actually written on it.Anyone know for sure?
As a footnote, she was launched as "Mona's Isle". We all know what happens when you change a boat's name!

(7) (Wolfgang) On this site of Manx books there is a book advertised about the loss of the ELLAN VANNIN (this spelling; which is by the way the same as in the history of The
Isle of Man Steam Packet Co. Limited.).

(8) (IanC) Also (to be fair) the same as Hughie Jones spelt it when he wrote the song so...

(9) (Wolfgang) As an aside on Ellan Vannin: Both the lyrics in Sharon's link and in the DT have the same error in the last verse:

...A terrible storm in ninety-nine...

The tragedy was in nineteen nine (1909)

(10) (SharonA) Okay, here's a link to the lyrics with the correct year-date:
http://www.acronet.net/~robokopp/shanty/elenvann.htm



But wait... there's more! The lyrics at www.molwert.de have the first line as "Snaefell, Tyndwall and Benmachree" and the captain's name as Tier. The lyrics at
www.acronet.net say "Snaefell Tynwald, Ben-my-Chree" and spell the captain's name as Teare.

Then there's the first line of the sixth verse. Molwert.de has "Few Manxmen now remember", whereas Acronet.net has "You Manxmen now remember". Quite a
difference in meaning! Is it safe to assume that Acronet's line is correct? (There are other, less glaring, discrepancies between the two versions as well.)

When was this song written? I can't find a date for it.

(11) (Wolfgang) We should have started an extra thread for that song, but...

The Loss of the Ellan Vannin (with pictures of the ship!) seems quite reliable to me.

The name of the captain on this site (and all other sites I have seen) is Teare. The spelling of the mountain is variable and depends on to which amount the Welsh
name has been anglicised. From roughly knowing when the Spinners have been singing, the song should have been written in the 1960s (give or take a decade).
Therefore, "few Manxmen.." makes more sense to me.

And finally:

Thread #49474   Message #674115
Posted By: GUEST,greg stephens
12-Jul-02 - 07:19 AM
Thread Name: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin


These three boat names give a nice picture of the Isle of Man for those unfamiliar with the place. Snaefell is the highest hill/mountain/fell. Means Snow Fell (Old Norse, lots of Viking invaders). Tynwald is the litte hill at St Johns where the parliament has been meeting for more than a thousand years (compare other places called Dingwall, Thingvellir etc etc throughout the Scandinavian world, all meaning parliament place). Ben-my Chree means woman of my heart (Manx Gaelic, lots of Irish invaders).

Subject: RE: Origins: Ellen Vannin
From: Tam the man
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 12:16 PM

Hugh Jones, for those who don't know was a member of the Spinners a folk group from England, however some people think that this song is Trad.

Tam

Subject: RE: Origins: Ellen Vannin
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 05:51 PM

Joe, Jim Dixon has posted the Spinners version right at the top of this thread! They sang it on 'More Folk at the Phil' (1965).

Subject: RE: Origins: Ellen Vannin
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 08:35 PM

Joe, it appears I was a bit clumsy in correcting the DT version using my text. Jim Dixons (which I don't remember seeing before - have you combined threads?) version is better. Here is "my" version corrected:


ELLAN VANNIN
(Hugh Jones)

Snaefell, Tyndwald and Ben-My-Chree,
Fourteen ships have sailed the sea.
Proudly bearing a Manx name,
But there's one will never again

Oh, Ellan Vannin, of the Isle of Man Company,
Oh, Ellan Vannin, lost in the Irish Sea.

At one a.m. in Ramsey Bay,
Captain Teare was heard to say,
"Our contract says deliver the mail,
In this rough weather we must not fail."

Ocean liners sheltered from the storm,
Ellan Vannin on the waves was borne.
Her hold was full and battened down,
As she sailed toward far Liverpool town

With her crew of twenty one Manxmen,
Her passengers Liverpool business men.
Farewell to Mona's Isle, Farewell,
This little ship was bound for hell.

Less than a mile from the bar lightship,
By a mighty wave Ellan Vannin was hit.
She sank in the waters of Liverpool Bay
And there she lies until this day.

Few Manxmen now remember
The third day of the month December
That terrible storm of Ninteen-O-Nine,
Ellan Vannin sailed for the very last time.


I suppose there could be variations in the way he or the Spinners did it but you are right, this one is taken from Hugh Jones' publication.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: GUEST,Phil Owens
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 03:38 PM

Here is a link to a streamed version of the song, but not by Hughie Jones of the Spinners http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=315026&songID=2202873

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: GUEST,Phil Owens
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 03:41 PM

The version in the link I have just posted is by Ronnie Carthy - the link gives details of the album available and also offers the mp3 version for download for 99p.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 06:33 AM

Have just listened to the midi, and also to the Spinners' LP I have and there seems to be one note different: the word "bear(ing)" in the 3rd line of the verse is sharpened in the Spinners' recording, while in the midi it's a natural. (therefore need s a majot rather than minor chord). I guess the Spinners' version is the correct one, seeing that Hughie wrote it!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 06:02 PM

There is a totally different song "Ellen Vannin" with words by Eliza Craven Green and music by J. Townsend, in W.H. Gill's "Manx National Songs", 1896. Which one did the OP want? I can ABC the older one if needed.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: Bru
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 06:39 PM

Ellan Vannin - written by Hugh Jones and recorded (live) by The Spinners around 1965.

It gets a frequent airing in various keys in our local folk club.
I do have an MP3 of the original recording if you're still looking for a copy of the song.

Am Am G Am
Am Am G Am
Am D G E
Am Am G Am
Chorus
A Am D Am
D Am Am G Am

A bit after the original request, but I've only just found the original post. Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: Bru
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 06:02 AM

Sorry - the chorus should be:

D Am D Am
D Am Am G Am

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 07:34 AM

The song you know from the BeeGees version is the unofficial Manx National Anthem ("Ellan Vannin" -note the spelling - being the name of the Island in Manx) and is a Victorian ballad. The one about the loss of the ferry is a totally different song - I remember hearing the Spinners singing it at the Philharmonic Hall in the 60s.

As I now live on the Isle of Man I hear both of them quite often at sessions.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: cetmst
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 05:54 PM

The "Manx National Songs" referenced above contains the words and music to Eliza Craven Green/J.Townsend's song plus 50 other Manx songs with English words, many with Manx titles and Manx tunes. There is also a seven page paper entitled Manx Music by W. H. Gill, one of the editors and arranger.
Manx National Songs with English Words, selected from the Ms, collection of The Deemster Gill, Dr. J. Clague & W. H. Gill, and arranged by W. H. Gill, Boosey and Company, London, 1896

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Ellen Vannin
From: cetmst
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 06:30 PM

I have also miraculously recovered from my basement a 1971 E.M.I. recording (Starline SRS 5124) of electronically reprocessed music of the Glasgow Orpheus Choir (disbanded 1951) containing the Green/Townsend song Ellan Vannin, subtitled Dear Isle of Man