Irish tunes/songs stolen from english

Subject: RE: Irish tunes/songs stolen from english
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 07:34 AM

Whenever I sing Geordie, I change "Bohenny" to "Kilkenny" as the place where the poacher sells the sixteen deer. I often get a response like, "Damn that bloody English judge!" along with the presumption that the song is Irish in origin. Yes, I confess I stole it on behalf of an pobal na hÉireann! Anyway, I've looked at maps of the U.K., and I can't find any Bohenny. Bo'ness is the closest, and it's in Scotland, not England. There is, however, the Boheny & Nesbitt Pub. And where is that? In Dublin, of course!

I know someone is going to tell me that Bohenny is a corruption of Bohemia. Maybe so, but taking those stolen deer all the way to the middle of the Continent is quite a trek, especially when Geordie could just as easily sold them in Kilkenny!

Oh, and here are a few songs the Irish stole from the Yanks:
Charley on the M.T.A. by Jacqueline Steiner & Bess Lomax.
The Boxer by Paul Simon.
The Rooster Song by God knows whom!

Subject: RE: Irish tunes/songs stolen from english
From: oombanjo
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 11:44 AM

How's this one, THE MOORLOCK SHORE.
OE'R HILLS AND VALES AND FLOWERY DALES
THAT LAY BENEETH MOORLOCKS SHORE.
                           THE FOGGY DEW.
ALL ROUND THE GLEN ONE EASTER MORN
TO A CITY FAIR RODE I..
                            BOTH SAME TUNE.
                            WICH CAME FIRST ???

Subject: RE: Irish tunes/songs stolen from english
From: Stephen R.
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:06 PM

Bohenny? Kilkenny? Hey, it's Virginny!

Stephen

Subject: RE: Irish tunes/songs stolen from english
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:28 PM

I was thinking of the "Island Field" in Limerick rather than the one in Canada.

On Kilkenny/Bohenny: Stephen Suffet also does that, and gets the same knee-jerk reaction from audiences who don't really understand the song. It's nothing new; as I mentioned in a past discussion here, Kilkenny was substituted in a Liverpool broadside edition printed around 1820. See thread How many versions of Geordie, which includes a short list of substitutions.

That particular Foggy Dew is a 20th century song set to an older tune. I thought everybody knew that by now (it's been discussed here often enough, and the lyric posted again and again), but a recent thread on tunes and songs of the American War of Independence period shows that they don't.

Subject: RE: Irish tunes/songs stolen from english
From: MartinRyan
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:34 PM

Janice

Sorry ot disappoint, but the (excellent) Dublin pub is Doheny & Nesbitt, rather than Bohenny! Well known for its school of economics!

Regards

Subject: RE: Irish tunes/songs stolen from english
From: Suffet
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 08:25 PM

Greetings:

The same reaction to "Kilkenny" is no surprise. I learned that version of Geordie from Janice shortly before going over to Ireland nearly 20 years ago. I have since heard it several times, always here in the USA, most recntly by an Irish-American group in New York. I think people do understand the song, and the change from Bohenny to Kilkenny is both easy and obvious.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Irish tunes/songs stolen from english
From: GUEST,Malcolm
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 09:46 PM

Obvious, perhaps; but no more so than the many other alternatives (yes, the earliest known is Bohemia, but it was white steeds that were stolen rather than wild deer back in the 17th century).

If audiences think that the mere mention of an Irish placename means that it's about a Wicked English Judge being cruel to a poor wee Irishman, then they certainly haven't understood the song. I doubt if anyone ever thought that George of Oxford was Bohemian just because he fenced some stuff there.