BS: Elder Abuse

Subject: BS: Elder Abuse
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 02:30 PM

I know it's a moral responsibility, but is it a legal one like child abuse is? I may have just started a major family war.....I'm an 'outlaw' and I reported what I consider to be abuse of my husbands grandmother, aged 95 and damn near helpless. She signed her 58-ish year old daughter out of the state mental hospital saying she would take care of her. Ha. Gran can't even take care of herself, let alone a paranoid schizophrenic.

Aunt has told local family services that she will take care of gran. Neither is happening. Aunt is un employed and unemployable and will just take off w/o warning for several weeks at a time. Other family members didn't want to report it because of one other aunt. I did. Called from out here (I noticed things had gone from bad to worse when we were 'home' for a funeral last week). I don't really much care if I start a war, I don't live there, and even if Gran has been a witch to everybody all her life, she deserves good care.

Guess I'm just looking for support here.....

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 02:38 PM

You go girl.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 02:42 PM

I know it's a moral responsibility, but is it a legal one like child abuse is?

Do you mean, legal duty to report? That legal duty (for child abue) I'm pretty sure is limited to professionals specified by the relevant law. A lay person aware of abuse its not legally required to report. As far as I know.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: sixtieschick
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM

Psychotherapists in the U.S. are legally required to report any elder abuse mentioned by their clients during sessions.

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: Janie
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 02:53 PM

Ah Sorcha--you made the right call--and the difficult one for a family member. I remember having to tell some one dear once who was expressing suicidal thoughts, that I would rather have them mad at me for life because I petitioned for commitment, than dead at their own hand and me doing nothing to intervene out of fear of their anger.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: sixtieschick
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 02:53 PM

Whoops--meant to add good luck to you in dealing with a tough situation, Sorcha.

M.

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 03:05 PM

You did the right thing, Sorcha. Good luck getting the family to come around. Elder abuse is rampant in this country and more likely as more of us outlive our expected dying dates. Time to resurrect the "House of the Setting Sun" thread and make some plans for all of us.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 03:53 PM

Thanks. I don't care if i start a family war, and mom did say to me that she would call them if her older sister wouldn't pitch a bitch. Oh well. I'm 700 miles away. What are they gonna do to me?

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 04:27 PM

Whether it's a legal responsibility or not in your country I've no idea. Moral responsibilities are the ones that matter anyway.

Still, I'd be surprised if there isn't a legal responsibility on the authorities to respond to a situation involving danger to vulnerable people. It sounds as if you did the right thing.

Whether the authorities or the other people involved will do the right thing is another matter, but at least you've put them on the spot, and what else can you do from 700 miles away?

It sounds from what you said as if the state mental hospital people may well have been guilty of severe dereliction of duty.

Family war? All families have wars, it's almost a definition of a family.

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: GUEST,ClaireBear
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 06:08 PM

Sorcha, I've just thought of something. My local major market AM radio station has a free legal advice show on weekends, and the lawyer who runs it, Len Tillem, specializes in elder law. If you're serious about knowing what your legal obligations are, you could do worse than to call in -- the phone number is toll-free nationwide I believe.

The radio feed is available online at www.kgoam810.com, and the show is broadcast from 4:00 to 7:00 pm Saturday and Sunday, Pacific time. I think they archive too, but only for 24 hours after the show airs. Give it a listen and see what you think.

Also, Mr. Tillem claims to answer ALL listener e-mails that concern elder abuse, as he is a bit of a crusader about it. Hope that helps!

Claire

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 06:26 PM

Thank you Claire.

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 06:44 PM

Years ago I obtained an affidavit from a mental health care wrker and presented it to Gannet Newspapers.
It raised quite a few eyebrows and gained immediate support from adult children of institutionalized parents.
Often the abuse takes the form of a neighbor or caretaker "friend" who then steals funds immediately or posthumously from the elderly.

Trusting a schizophrenic is like (you fill in the blank)

Good luck Sorcha

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 11:49 PM

Is Gran the lady you were telling me about who had been so nice to you, Sorch?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: harpgirl
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 12:30 AM

Good call, Scorch. Both Gran and daughter probably need guardianship, meals on wheels, and elder care services as well. How can a 95 year old get to a state mental hospital? What discharge social worker hooked that up?

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:55 PM

Well, hg, this has been ongoing for several years. When gran checked her out of the hospital, gran was still driving. It's a moot point now, done deal. I told Mom what I had done and I think she was relieved that someone had done it.

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 05:28 PM

In most states ANYONE is legally required to report suspected child abuse. Teachers, neighbors, public librarians, cops, EMTs, everyone.

Depending upon the abuse, it could also be battery, assault, "failure to provide" or other flat-out crimes.

Sounds like to did the right thing. I'da done it.

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 09:50 PM

In most states ANYONE is legally required to report suspected child abuse.

.... I don't think so, unless they are in a group required by their licensure, etc., to report. If I see my neighbor beating up a child, I have no particular legal duty. If I become aware of it through a church relationship, no legal duty. People not required to report DO report (as have I several times), but it's not required, I'm pretty sure. If you ARE required by your job to report, part of your training in your field is that it is required.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 10:01 PM

In Indiana, Ohio, and Kentucky we had to report suspected child abuse. Even though we received little or no training in the area. Ditto in Idaho. None of these states require training, just a report of the suspicion.

As far as I know, nobody ever reported any because we weren't trained to recognize anything but the most blatant cases.

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: Flash Company
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 07:36 AM

Hi Sorcha, I think you probably got it right, someone has to do something. Don't know how things are in the US, but in the UK the authorities can be pretty stupid at times in their handling of these situations.
A friend had to get pretty stroppy with the local council about a 92 year old being released from hospital into the care of her suicidal son. Comment was ' Oh yes, we know he attempted suicide, but he's alright now' (ie We've pumped his stomach). 'What happens when he does it again?' , 'Do you think that's likely?'
I get pretty cynical about this 'cos Sheila & I are at the age where we may have to rely on them ourselves.

FC

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 09:14 AM

In Indiana, Ohio, and Kentucky we had to report suspected child abuse.

In what capacity?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 11:09 AM

Yes, you did the right thing. But it's unrealistic to expect that anything will change anytime soon for the elderly woman, as the action you have taken is a bureaucratic one, and an "investigation" will now grind through the bureaucracy. Different offices and agencies are responsible for investigating this sort of abuse.

If there is a need for immediate action to be taken, then steps need to be taken by the family and/or the elderly woman herself. If the woman is 95 and "damn near helpless" it sounds to me like no one in the family is interested in either taking her into their own homes or putting her in a facility? If that is the case, there may not be much anyone can do, especially if the woman refuses to leave her home. However, there are usually programs that bring in home health care services for the elderly. Is she not enrolled in a program like that?

You might start looking for information at these places:

National Center on Elder Abuse

National Institute of Health's Elder Abuse page

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 08:34 PM

I don't know anything about 'Elder Abuse', but I have got pretty well gone on elderflower wine!

Also, if elder abuse is a problem, I remember this bit of doggerel:

"The woman, the dog and the walnut tree;
The more you beat 'em the better they be."

Would this come under the heading of "Walnut Abuse" ?

CHEERS
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse
From: Sorcha
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 09:32 PM

Ah, Nigel, funny but not. And Guest, see, there are some things that our Elder health care system doesn't fund. Gran is spending all her income supporting this 'worthless' daughter, so can afford the programs you suggest. Yes, medicare/medicaid should help, but they aren't. The US health system is just so screwed up......