BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope [2005]

Subject: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: jacqui.c
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 12:45 PM

Just watched this on TV.

It's still amazing that we can be part of such an important occasion live!

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: jacqui.c
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 12:46 PM

He's going to be named Pope Benedict XVI

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 12:47 PM

Tell me it's not true. The best thing about these news is that he's quite old already.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 12:50 PM

It's not true........

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 12:50 PM

Sorry JacquiC not wishing to rain on your parade, but I can't see this as terribly amazing or even that important, from his history he won't move the Catholic chuch in an enlightened or progressive direction. Quite a step up for an ex member of the Hitler Youth though!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Chris Green
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 12:53 PM

Bugger. Oh well, I'm sure there'll be another one along shortly...

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 12:54 PM

Wolfgang, you would perhaps have the best insight into this new guy. I am interested why you seem quite unimpressed. I would like to know your comments.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: jacqui.c
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 12:55 PM

I'm not a Christian but I can see that, to a significant number of people this IS an important event. Whatever he does or does not do will impact a quite a lot of people, even inaction has its results.

What
I feel is amazing is that we can all be aware of what is happening immediately, wherever we are situated in the world. Think back a couple of hundred years and this news would have taken quite a time to reach most of the world. Even 50 years ago we could not have watched this live. Now it happens in a few seconds.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 01:05 PM

In each decision he has been on the conservative side. For instance when the German bishop (all but one or two) wanted the Catholic church to give advice and help to pregnant women along with other helping agencies he moved against them for the mere possibility that this could be seen as leading to abortions. He always moved against any local independence from Rome.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 01:07 PM

He was a member of the Hitler Youth. Never a member of the Nazi Party. Conscripted into the German Army, but deserted. Was in an American POW camp when the war ended.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 01:17 PM

Well that's alright then.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Tam the man
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 01:21 PM

So the Auld/ New Pope was a Nazi, but that was in the past.

I hope him good health and Luck

Tom

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 01:27 PM

Clutching at straws, Benedict XV was a good man, opposed the Great War all the way through, and got a lot of stick about it from both sides; so the name is at least one encouraging thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 01:30 PM

Kevin they are all called Pope...

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 01:39 PM

Today is a good day because - Ratzinger is the new Pope

Sorry, wrong thread, should go to thread name game.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 01:44 PM

So. The cardinal who is the Vatican insider that rewrote the rules for papal elections, has now been elected pope.

Way to pick 'em, Holy Spirit.

A true miracle.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Piers
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 01:45 PM

In 1986 Ratzinger issued a letter to the Catholic Bishops in which he wrote that homosexuality was a 'tendency' towards an 'intrinsic moral evil'. A few years later, in 1992, he rejected the notion of human rights for gays, stressing that their civil liberties could be 'legitimately limited'. He followed up by remarking that 'neither the church nor society should be surprised' if 'irrational and violent reactions increase' when gays demand civil rights. From here.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 01:47 PM

He was the most conservative fundamentalist amongst the papabile. Just what Catholicism needs--another fundie pope. As if JPII wasn't bad enough.

The worst news is Ratzinger seems to be in excellent health.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 01:48 PM

And I'm guessing they are *ecstatic* at the Dubya White House.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 01:52 PM

From Reuters:

Born in Bavaria on April 16, 1927, Ratzinger was a leading theology professor and then archbishop of Munich before taking over the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 1981.

In that office, Ratzinger disciplined Latin American "liberation theology" theologians, denounced homosexuality and gay marriage and pressured Asian priests who saw non-Christian religions as part of God's plan for humanity.

In a document in 2000, he branded other Christian churches as deficient -- shocking Anglicans, Lutherans and other Protestants in ecumenical dialogue with Rome for years.

As dean of the College of Cardinals, he presided over John Paul's funeral Mass and the daily meetings of cardinals to discuss the next papacy.

Ratzinger was the oldest cardinal to be named pope since Clement XII, who was also 78 when he became pope in 1730. He is the first German pope since Victor II (1055-1057).

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Tam the man
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 02:04 PM

If he was forced to Join the German army then he can't all that bad.

He has his faults like everyone else.

Tom

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 02:08 PM

Back to the future with Joseph Ratzinger (Guardian)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 02:08 PM

Apparently you aren't Catholic, Tom. Popes don't have faults. They are infallible. Just ask Ratzinger/Benedict XVI--he's the one who clarified that for us during his reign over at the Doctrine offices.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 02:12 PM

Don't let the troll start a fight.   I am not happy about the choice either, but history has shown that often the individuals who lead the church end up taking different paths. John Paul II surprised a lot of people. None of us can see in to the future, let's just watch and be cautious. If people expect any religion to make social changes, those changes will never occur.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Burke
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 02:25 PM

I'm not old enough to remember it personally, but I seem to recall hearing that John XXIII was supposed to be an interim figure & ended up holding Vatican II. Benedict XVI could surprise all the predictions. I do hope he mananges to last longer than John Paul I.

Both JP's were viewed as pastoral men. Ratzinger seems to be an academic turned bureaucrat. Does he have any real world experience since those days in the army & POW camp?

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: open mike
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 02:37 PM

did anyone actually see the white smoke...
and was it from the secret ballots being burned?

hard to hold a re-count after burning

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM

Just passing around a spliff.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 02:55 PM

well, it will be interesting to watch the reign of a staunch conservative who practically bullied his way into office. Perhaps he will be so strict that it will backfire.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:12 PM

And the liberal cause gets ignored again!

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: GUEST,Jesus Christ
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:14 PM

Well, nobody asked Me for My opinion!

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:19 PM

Oh, him. Ratzinger. I thought they said "Rap Singer", and I was thinking maybe the Benedict was for Benedict Arnold.

Well, the next one will be even more intransigently closed-minded, but at least he'll be African.

Haruo
just guessing of course

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:19 PM

I certainly won't.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:20 PM

Just another asshole one day, the Infallible Right Hand of God the next. Because the majority of a roomful of old men in red suits said so. Hmmm.... Makes perfect sense to me!

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Peace
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:25 PM

He opposed Romero (The Red Bishop) in the late 1970s and early 1980s (?) over Liberation Theology. He has said, basically, that the Church will be better off with a smaller more devoted (read, toe-the-line) congregation than a larger congregation that wants their specific whims catered to (abortion, same-sex marriage, birth control, etc).

The above is my interpretation. Time will tell (just who has fell, and who's been left behind . . .).

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:26 PM

Careful about that infallibility thing. Popes aren't infallible, but their statements can be deemed infallible if those statements meet very strict guidelines. The most important restriction is that the statement must be something that is already part of the common belief of Catholics - it cannot be something that is imposed upon them. There have been two infallible statements made since the Doctrine of Infallibility was decreed in the 1870's - both of thes statements involved bestowing rather innocuous titles on Mary, the mother of Jesus.

Still and all, the choice of Ratzinger is very distressing to me. He had a reputation as a competent theologian, and was regarded as a "liberal" until the 1970's. he has been viewed as a rigid conservative since he took over as the chief doctrine man in the early 1980's, but many of his statements are not as rigid and conservative as one might think All you see in the newspapers is a one-line layman's summary of a 40-page document.

I have an acquaintance who has worked for Ratzinger for the last several years, and he has many good things to say about Ratzinger as a person. I'm willing to give him a chance, but I'm worried.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:27 PM

Brucie, i thought he opposed Cesar Romero.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Peace
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:30 PM

Naw, not the salad/cheese guy, the bishop from Central America.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:34 PM

Just Great- Pope Grand Inquisitor.

Should put the Catholic Church right back into the 15th Century- just about where the NeoCons want society to be anyway.

Good investment opportunities in concerns making racks, thumbscrews, & the other knick-knacks for suppressing heresy, tho!

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: GUEST, Jesus H. Christ
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:35 PM

The other Christ is an imponere!

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Peace
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:40 PM

"imponere"

Is that really a word? If so, why?

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: PoppaGator
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:51 PM

Alright! An old guy with all the hard-line orthodoxy of JPII and none of his persoanl likability!

Maybe what the Holy Spirit really wants is for independent thinkers in the industrialized West and worldwide to give up on the Vatican and start something new and viable.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:54 PM

Oscar Romero, archbishop of San Salvador, was assassinated as he celebrated Mass on March 24, 1980. The man usually referred to as the "red bishop" is Archbishop Helder Camara (1909-1999), archbishop of Olinda and Recife, Brazil. He was one of the earliest proponents of liberation theology, and he was an outspoken critic of Brazil's military disctatorship. It would be an understatement to say that Ratzinger and Camara "didn't get along."

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:57 PM

I agree with Joe Offer -- I'll wait, but if I'm excommunicated you'll know why.

Heck, for all I know I might be excommunicated right now. Hmmmmm....

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:58 PM

Is the new Pope the Red Baron?

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: GUEST,Tired of Petty People
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:58 PM

Why are you liberals so petty? The man just got the job and you have already condemned him, no one knows how well he will or won't do. He's not elected by the people so he doesn't need your popularity vote. Religion isn't suppose to conform to the current trends, religion is a constant force, followers either adhere to a particular religon's doctrine or they go else where.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 04:10 PM

When will they finally get with the times and elect a pope who believes in nothing?

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 04:10 PM

Who knows? As they say "only Nixon could go to China."

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 04:13 PM

And they also say wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 04:15 PM

we liberal, 'petty' people at least use our own names when we critique..

Subject: RE: BS: Ratzinger is the new Pope
From: GUEST,Joe D
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 04:20 PM

Well, Bill D, at least you admit you're petty but you failed to address the condemnation of man who was just "hired".