BS: Biblical Quotes Support 'Premarital Sex?

Subject: RE: BS: Biblical Quotes Support 'Premarital Sex?
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 12:41 PM

Hi, Allan.

No, that wasn't me. I use my name when I post. No offense taken.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Biblical Quotes Support 'Premarital Sex?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 04:36 PM

From the limited information above, it sounds as if the girl is probably in a position to take an informed choice, no matter what the straitlaced may say, and outrage and horror are therefore likely to prove counterproductive and may cause long-term emotional damage, and wreck the girl's sex life for decades.

Hence the cautious terms of my first post above.

WYS - some sensible advice there, glad to see no moralising - it does not help.

Gobson, the reason you remember your youth is you never grew up.

Subject: RE: BS: Biblical Quotes Support 'Premarital Sex?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 05:13 PM

More Scripture options.

"Say, son, what are you doing yoking yourself with an unbeliever?"
2Co 6:14... Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

"Married, huh, that's interesting! Well, what are your plans for caring for your wife as Scripture directs? And, uh, would YOU like to be treated as you've been treating this girl? And, um, would you like Christ's Church [Jesus's Bride] to be treated like you've been treating YOUR "bride"?" 1Co 7:3: Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence... and Eph5:25-28: Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it [self-sacrifice ALL for them]; That He [not YOU] might sanctify and cleanse it [her] with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it [her] to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy [sacred, pure] and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

"Now, about that chastity thing....."
Le19:20: And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her [i.e. of age/living independently]; she shall be scourged...."

Definition CHASTITY, "Hognos" (Greek): exciting reverence, venerable, sacred, pure; pure from carnality; chaste, modest, pure from every fault; immaculate, clean.


"You seem to be really into rebuking sinners. Is that the highest calling God give us?"
Le 19:17: Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. and 1Ch 12:17: And David went out to meet them, and answered and said unto them, If ye be come peaceably unto me to help me, mine heart shall be knit unto you: but if ye be come to betray me to mine enemies, seeing there is no wrong in mine hands, the God of our fathers look thereon, and rebuke it. and Mt 5:44-46: But I say unto you, Love your enemies... For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye ? do not even the publicans [sinners] the same? and the BIG ONE, 1Co 13:1: Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity [love], I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. (Definition of love, as used in this passage: agape love, sacrificing love; brotherly love, affection, good will, love, benevolence)

"You know, this woman you've been ranting at is actually under God's direct protection. Yup, just as if she were God's wife. Did you know God promises to be husband to the widow, and that being deserted by a husband is reckoned the same as widowhood?"
Isa 54:5: For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. and Mt 19:19: ... and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

"So.... what does Scripture say about how you should treat someone older than yourself?"
1Tim 5:17: Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. (Definition of "elder" as used in this passage: elder, of age, the elder of two people; or advanced in life, an elder, a senior) and 1Pe 5:5: Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

:~)

Have a nice day!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Biblical Quotes Support 'Premarital Sex?
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 01:37 AM

I don't know heric, its kinda hard to know how to handle it.

As far as the girl is concerned, you're right, there is probably no turning back. If its not him, it will probably be someone else. The best thing is to emphasize safe sex and birth control. At this point, there is probably no convincing her that the relationship is wrong and that the guy is 'messed up'. She'll probably have to figure that out on her own.

That doesn't mean that her mother has to sanction the relationship. Her mother just has to make him unwelcome in her home. Based on his criticism of mom, this would not be hard to do. The daughter will eventually figure it out that mom is really more important and that its not worth the disapproval she gets at home. At that age if you try to lay down the law, it drives them closer together. I might be tempted to say, "Fine, let him support you if you think he has all the answers." (No, I take that back!)

If you want to prove him wrong, you can try to take her to visit a minister who will straighten her out regarding what the bible says. At least then she will understand that she is being lied to but if she doesn't already belong to a church, that probably won't work. She wants to believe her boyfriend! He says he loves her and she wants to believe everything he tells her.

As far as the law is concerned, I don't think there is enough of an age difference to make anything stick. If we were to prosecute every underage kid having sex, the courts would crumble. Its impossible. Not a chance. You should know that. Teen-age sex isn't really a crime is it?

Emphasize her freedom to make choices that will effect the rest of her life then let it go. If mom has imparted her values to her daughter at an early age, the daughter will eventually turn around. If not, well, thats the price you pay. If she cares enough about herself to excel at school, there is still hope. At least she has some brains. With a kid like that, you can only reason with her. Emphasize her future and the fact that he's a loser and she's a winner. She deserves better. Then let it go.

Subject: RE: BS: Biblical Quotes Support 'Premarital Sex?
From: Burke
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 10:52 AM

It would be interesting to know if this is this young man's first 'marriage' or if he is already a divorcee or polygamist.

Subject: RE: BS: Biblical Quotes Support 'Premarital Sex?
From: heric
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 10:42 PM

Well, I promised to report in with the result. It's a surprise ending, if a bit anti-climactic after all your good advice and all my studying.

Girl's mom contacted the boy's family, who, it turns out, are churchgoing Catholics. (He rejects Catholicism.) After listening politely to the details, and then to the voice mails boy left for mom (did I mention the voice mails? - they were peppered with the "F" word mixed in with his "religious" ramblings), the boy's family wholeheartedly agreed that he was on a wayward path. The numerous corrective actions they intend include keeping him away from the girl (he's in high school; she's in middle school.)

Girl is still in love, but not embarrassed by the affair, and will move on. Boy's family will have to be in charge of his development, but they sounded concerned ands well-intentioned.

So it seems it will all work out.

Subject: RE: BS: Biblical Quotes Support 'Premarital Sex?
From: GUEST,WYS
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 10:49 PM

Whew!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Biblical Quotes Support 'Premarital Sex?
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 02:50 PM

Before completely breathing a sigh of relief, I will reiterate previous advice. Get her to a doctor, make sure she is healthy and not pregnant and get her some birth control.

And if Junior re-surfaces, call the police. His parents may not be able to keep them separate if they are "in love".

Subject: RE: BS: Biblical Quotes Support 'Premarital Sex?
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 03:05 PM

Before completely breathing a sigh of relief, I will reiterate previous advice. Get her to a doctor, make sure she is healthy and not pregnant and get her some birth control.

And if Junior re-surfaces, call the police. His parents may not be able to keep them separate if they are "in love".

Subject: RE: BS: Biblical Quotes Support 'Premarital Sex?
From: heric
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 03:56 PM

Thanks, Sinsull. Yes, both of your items imediately above are on the mother's agenda. The repsective parents discussed the subject of a potential restraining order and hopefully (probably) the kids' escapade will not result in any legal or other public fallout.

(By the way, though not germane: The high school in question is getting a lot of press these days for its anti-gay day and resulting legal actions (by both sides).)

Subject: RE: BS: Biblical Quotes Support 'Premarital Sex?
From: dianavan
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 10:39 PM

An anti-gay day? Isn't that called discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation? ...or don't they have that law in Calif.? Was it sanctioned by the school?

Subject: RE: BS: Biblical Quotes Support 'Premarital Sex?
From: heric
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 11:45 PM

It's free speech versus harassment/discrimination. You can criticize without it being hate speech. (And of course I made up that name. It's something like "Truth Day.")

Subject: RE: BS: Biblical Quotes Support 'Premarital Sex?
From: heric
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 11:49 PM

No, the school doesn't sponsor anything. The question is how much must they allow and how much must they forbid. Which is why everybody gets to sue.