BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations

Subject: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: mandoleer
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 06:14 PM

Hoping that the UK Catters will join with me in refusing to give their polling numbers to the harpies that sit outside the polling stations. I regard this habit as an infringement of people's rights to a secret ballot, as giving your number tells the parties you have voted. I don't want them to know who I am, whether I have voted or not, and most certainly not for whom. A lot of voters think these scavengers (apologies to all real furred or feathered jackals, hyaenas and vultures that might read this) have the right to this information. NO, they DO NOT! Be rude to them. Tell them they are parasites. Call them vultures (and apologise to the real vultures later). They say it means you won't get a remind to vote call from them later if they know you have been in. Tough. I've never had one yet and I've never given my number. If you do get a call, you can always be rude to them as well....

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 06:50 PM

Please explain for an American. What is a polling number? Who are the harpies you refer to? Do you think they're using the information for some evil purpose? What would that be?

We have exit polling in the US, but it sounds like you're talking about something different. For one thing, I don't think a pollster would ask you to identify yourself. (But then, I've never encountered one.)

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 06:52 PM

I tell the pollsters that my name is Jim Dixon. Solves the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: mandoleer
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 07:11 PM

Here in the UK, the political parties have people sitting outside the polling stations asking voters for their polling number, which is the number of your entry in the voters' register. We don't have voting machines here - just big black boxes and little cards and very black pencils. I don't think they have an evil purpose - not any more evil than anything else political - but I object to them knowing if I have voted.

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 07:12 PM

Isn't that info recorded inside the polling station?

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 07:14 PM

Wonder if it could be a method of various parties knowing who has NOT been to the polling station so they can get folks they KNOW will vote for them to the poll if it looks to be a close race. Could that be it?

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Leadfingers
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 07:23 PM

'Exit Polls' are a way of guestimating the result of an election early
I sinmply tell any one who approaches me for information outside a polling station that my Vote is between me and the ballot box , and
I am telling them NOTHING !

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 07:26 PM

My last vote told Ottawa that I am a very unhappy camper. There was no candidate named "fu#k off with your bullshit you miserable bastards", so I wrote his name in.

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 07:39 PM

If they see you coming out of a polling place, wouldn't they already know you voted? (I suppose I can answer my own question: Yes, but they wouldn't know your name.) If they know your polling number, can they look up your name and address? So what harm does it do to let them know your name plus the fact that you voted?

So what's the point of being rude? Wouldn't a polite refusal do just as well?

In the US, there MIGHT be such a thing as a polling number. Who knows? Registration and voting procedures are different in every state. In Minnesota, you don't need to know any number or carry any registration card. You arrive at the polling place, tell them your name and address, and (assuming you're already registered) they ask you to sign the registration book next to your printed name. Then they hand you your ballot. If you're not already registered, you can register then and there, if you've brought proper ID or another voter to vouch for you. It's pretty simple, and it works.

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Piers
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 03:32 AM

I told them 'I'm not a number, I'm a free man' at the last general election, and the Tory said 'I don't believe there's such a thing' and I said 'Ah, but there will be'.

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 04:02 AM

'Wonder if it could be a method of various parties knowing who has NOT been to the polling station so they can get folks they KNOW will vote for them to the poll if it looks to be a close race. Could that be it?' (Brucie above)

I guess you know more than you are letting on Brucie.

Taking numbers is part of the Mikardo system, developed I think by Ian Mikardo for the British Labour Party.

Canvassers collect promissed vote during the weeks before the election. On the day numbers are collected by all parties who have people to do it. They check these against the promises then go and bother pronises who have not voted.

I have been involved in this in every election for 30 years. Canvassing is a very healthy part of democracy candidates and party workers meet the voters face to face. I think this is almost media free.

I have always found people (for or against to be polite and they seem to value this aspect of the democratic process. I know some of you don't like being asked for your number, but nearly all parties do it when they have the workers and on the local street by local street level on which it operates it makes democracy very public with out endangering the secrecy of the ballot box.

I hope people will vote because other people fought (and in some places still) fight and die for that right. Voting is only a toe on the ladder of democracy. Democracy includes organising in parties, generating policies, standing as candidates, remaining accountable to electors and so on.

Take your toe of the ladder and what have you got?

By all means refuse to give your number, but don't knock the workers of all parties who try their best for democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 08:26 AM

In Australia, the Democratic Freedom to Vote is Compulsory!

An extremely low percentage of people do not vote.

Sneaky Johnny has tried to abolish compulsory voting, (and has been working on the US system of stripping convicted felons of the right to vote), so I assume that the US (and Britsh) method works better for the power mongers, while our compulsory system provides more surprises and problems for them.

Good!

We do have exit polls, but funnily enough many Aussies seem to regularly lie to them, as they aren't always accurate.

Better!

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 08:29 AM

BTW, if you tried to characterise Aussies as a nation under D&D character types, it would be Chaotic Neutral.

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: gnomad
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 09:24 AM

I usually ask them if they believe in the idea of a secret ballot.

The ones who understand the question generally also take the hint, the rest continue to drag their knuckles on the floor and look baffled, which is always entertaining.

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Peace
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 11:29 AM

Les in C,

I agree with what you wrote. It is important to go to the polling station and do SOMEthing with the ballot. I tend not to want to cheapen democracy by voting for lesser of evils. There have been few times I have marred my ballot, but when I do, I do it right. However, I always make the trek to the station and put my two cents in. Cheapest game in town, and for about ten seconds I am the boss. Kinda neat.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 02:32 PM

Fair enough Brucie, writing things on the paper is an option and quite a creative one at that.

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Peace
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 02:33 PM

I fear however that they never get to Ottawa.

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 05:43 PM

On a related issue, Peire Trudeau ( sorry spell check failing)
Force for good or force for otherwise?

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 07:19 PM

I just don't like politicians and politicals. It's not that the job doesn't have to be done. It's the way they seem to spend more time sniping at each other and treating the whole business as a sort of game with points to be scored that I hate. And the behind the scenes machinations that they seem to enjoy. I've been a chairman more than once and always tried to put a stop to that sort of nonsense so that the work of the society could get attended to more rapidly and efficiently. Usually succeeded, as well...

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Peace
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 01:54 PM

Pierre Trudeau was loved, and hated. He captured the Canadian imagination in a way that few other PMs ever did. As to good or evil? Beats me.

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 03:47 PM

Here in Maine there are people from each party sitting at the table where you tell your name and get a ballot. I too feel it is an infringemnet on my right to a secret ballot. Whether I vote or not is no one's business. They are supposedly there to make sure only registered voters vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 03:58 PM

Sinsull:

If you want a place where they don't check your eligibility, I hear Florida is good!

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 07:52 PM

In Australia, the party faithfuls must stay off the property on the footpath to hand out their literature. During counting, parties can have 'vote validity inspectors/observers' present, who as far as I know are not allowed to touch the ballot papers.

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: gecko
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 09:50 PM

'Scrutineer' is the name used for "vote validity inspectors/observers" and every candidate is entitled to have scrutineers present during the count (and also when required, in the polling booth) - which is a good job as it's not unknown for the tired Electoral Officers, who have often been on duty all day, to make mistakes. It's pretty tense sometimes with the various supporters all craning to have a decko to make sure their candidate receives the correct count. Challenges to the count have to be taken seriously and can cause the count to be rather long which then makes you late for the Victory Party (or the Commiseration Wake).

Yours in Unity
gecko

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 07:23 PM

I am just waiting for some dumb consituency party to get campaigning t-shirts printed.

(for the benefit of Americans, the wearing of political uniforms is a criminal offence in the UK, ever since local facists imitated Hitler's Brown Shirts in the 30s)

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 10:46 PM

In Queensland Premier Joh (recently deceased) wanted to have the Police Force Special Branch (now also disbanded) wear brown shirts.

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 05:09 AM

It always annoys me very much to be asked questions as I leave the voting area.
Silence seems the best retort in my case. If I replied to their intrusive questions it would only get ugly.
Brave people fought to achieve anonymous voting rights for us and then these pricks want to change it.
I could go on...............

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:12 PM

'Brave people fought to achieve anonymous voting rights for us and then these pricks want to change it.'

Do you know of any political party that wants to stop the secret ballot?

The secret ballot for all citizens was a major victory for democracy. But only one step on the road to a much more complete democracy.

I, and most of my party, think policy should be created at grassroots level and managed by elected members answerable to local people. Most western democracies are heading in the opposite direction.

Do you care about this or is one miserable secret vote all you really want?

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Piers
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:54 PM

I care.

Subject: RE: BS: Hangers on at Polling Stations
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:36 PM

Thank you Pieres, I have calmed down now, and aim to be more polite. But I stand by all that I said in that post.

Organise or get shiny politicians and beyond