BS: did martha stewart break her parole?

Subject: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: tarheel
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 05:50 PM

Did Martha break house arrest?
U.S. Probation Dept. looking into attendance at dinner, New York Post reports.
April 24, 2005: 10:18 AM EDT

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - The U.S. Probation Department is investigating whether Martha Stewart violated the terms of her house arrest when she attended a Time magazine dinner last week, The New York Post reported Sunday.

"We're going to do some investigating to see if this event was directly related to her employment," Chris Stanton, chief federal probation officer for the Southern District of New York, told the Post.

my reply...
OH YEA!!!
by investigating whether MARTHA STEWART, broke her house arrest thingy or not, harden criminals are beating, raping,robbing,killing innocent victims by the hundreds in our country anymore...
i'm sure we will all feel a lot safer once this investigation on MARTA STEWART is over!!!
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!
i happen to like MARTHA STEWART and always have and always will!!!
BYW,there are 1000's of big wealthy folks,businesses,etc., cheating the goverrnment out of millions,maybe even billions of DOLLARS every year...and we know it's true,but does anyone do anything about it?
our COUNTRY and the GOVERNMENT just can't seem to get it's PRIORiTIES in order!!!
anyway,sleep well my friends,MARTHA STWEART is being investigated while TERROIST and LIBERALS tear our country apart!
tar...

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 06:06 PM

I'm sure all those thousands of officers assigned to investigate Martha will find a few minutes to chase a rapist or two also.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 06:07 PM

I like Martha Stewart too. I just wish she was going back to her regular show instead of going into the talk show business. But the reason she is being made such a scapegoat of is so your guys in the White House and the members of the current administration (and all of their cronies), and the Republican controlled Congress can divert the public's attention away from the really bad stuff that they don't want you to think about. And it ain't the "liberals" who are delivering this rear entry violation to the body of the electorate (at least not this time, anyway).

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:10 AM

Martha Stewart doesn't need anyone's sympathy. She's got the golden ring, hit the jackpot, won the lottery of life. I'm sure she'll be just fine.

Tarheel, why use the word "liberal" as a pejorative? It makes your argument weak.

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

Main Entry: lib·er·al·ism
Pronunciation: 'li-b(&-)r&-"li-z&m
Function: noun
1 : the quality or state of being liberal
2 a often capitalized : a movement in modern Protestantism emphasizing intellectual liberty and the spiritual and ethical content of Christianity b : a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard c : a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties d capitalized : the principles and policies of a Liberal party

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:26 AM

Ms. Stewart- poor litle rich girl that she is- is a convicted felon (and a particularly obnoxious and self-serving one) and should be treated no differently than any other convicted felon. Lock her up if she can't comply with the terms of her parole.

Nice tantrum, there, Heel. Remionds me of my two-year-old.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: gnu
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:39 AM

Felon? Lying is a felony? I did not think it was.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: GUEST,jeffp
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:58 AM

Lying to federal officers investigating a possible crime is indeed a crime in itself.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 09:03 AM

I think this is a no-brainer, and I'm no fan of Martha. I do believe she was Wall Street's sacrificial lamb to draw attention away from the much more serious crimes being committed on "The Street".

If she violated the terms of her parole, she should be given a warning, like most other first time offenders are given. She doesn't have that much time to go before finishing the sentence anyway. This was a victimless crime, as opposed to the many white collar crimes that aren't. People need to get a fucking grip, not to mention some perspective about these things. I mean c'mon, she has the entire NY media tracking her every move--if she violates her parole it will likely be over some petty issue like this one, which is a question of interpretation of what constitutes "work related" to a media mogul.

How many convicted felons have that sort of dilemma?

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Amos
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 09:10 AM

It only takes two brain cells to see that the PR associated with going to a dinner given by Time is an essential part of her role in her company, for which she is the somewhat tarnished figure-head. So it really translates to "We're going to see if we can get some column inches out of waving her name around even if it is on a non-issue, just to stir up the reading public and make ourselves look good."


A

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 10:31 AM

Too true, Amos.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 10:39 AM

All it really takes is to find a gun on her premises.

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/idle1.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 12:22 PM

Did Tarheel just say say that the Federal Government should be allocating crime fighting resources to the threat posed by "LIBERALS"? At least in that he agrees with Bush, Frist and Delay.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 12:49 PM

Dissent and free speech threaten to tear this country apart if you are among the neo fascist people of faith.
As each avenue for the liberal voice is being stifled or eliminated,
(Bill Moyers Now, National Public Broadcasting president fired and Tucker added for "balance", free speech zones etc.)
merely hearing an alternate point of view is now encouraged to be attacked as sedition, unpatriotic acts or mentally ill ravings by more than just the Rush Limbaughs of the country.

Perhaps a good strategy for the new Republicans will be to link Martha Stewart to Hillary Clinton like they did 9-11 and Saddam Hussein.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 01:19 PM

Lying to federal officers investigating a possible crime is indeed a crime in itself.

Lying to officiers investigating your role in a crime seems to be a time honored tradition--make the feds do their own leg work if they're investigating you and think you did something wrong. There's a huge Catch-22 with the law that allowed "lying to investigators" to become a punishable crime in itself, in addition to or separate from the crime you're being investigated for. As happened with Martha, they couldn't show that she actually did what they wanted to charge her with, so they instead charged her with lying. They proceeded to parade a bunch of dodgey witnesses who somehow suggested that her testimony was a lie. It used to be that if you lied under oath, in a court of law, you were in trouble. Who elected all of these officers, and who administers an oath that makes prevarication during the investigation something they can hang you with? I've always thought this law went too far. (It's like hanging Capone on tax evasion charges--it really doesn't have anything to do with what they WANTED him for). Of course, Capone really was a bad guy. Only thing you can get Martha for shooting up is maybe how she bastes a turkey at Thanksgiving.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: michaelr
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:38 PM

When MS first went to prison, the tried to do a cavity search on her...






...but they didn't have an ice pick.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: curmudgeon
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:56 PM

Martha Stewart's only crime was being a woman doing a "Man's Job."

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: tarheel
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 09:36 PM

the "liberal'word here is just to keep you folks active...heck,i aint got nuttin' 'gist any of ya!
more power to ya's!!
if i say it right in here,i'll ruin my "bad reputation"!
luv ya's all!
tar...

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 08:29 AM

BTW, the rather central point to this story was omitted by the thread originator. Her parole officer approved MS attending the gig. This is all howling from the media whores, nothing more.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 12:40 PM

She's just another bloody celebrity who broke the law. The fact that she received 'time' and OJ didn't is something that Americans should look at. It means your legal system has a few problems. However, she deserved what she got. OJ deserved a helluva lot more. IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 12:53 PM

Jay Leno (Tonight Show commenting on the question of whether MS broke parole, said, Hello? Has anyone heard lately anything about the location of Osama bin Laden?

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Kim C
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 10:04 AM

"Lying to federal officers investigating a possible crime is indeed a crime in itself."

Unless you're the POTUS. (heheheheheheheh)

Anyhow, I'm done hearing about Martha. I couldn't possibly care less.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 10:22 AM

Osama bin Laden (I think he's dead) is a no good terrorist sonuvabitch who should receive 150 grains of warm lead in his cranium. Martha Stewart was a greedy gal who got caught breaking laws and she deserved what she got, IMO. Leno may appeal to the humour of Americans, but his political sense is only average. The tactic of conflating issues for a laugh isn't new, and that's what his writers have done.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 12:23 PM

Donuel, I think it was, who said:

Who elected all of these officers, and who administers an oath that makes prevarication during the investigation something they can hang you with?

I think the above is just a somewhat humorous rhetorical question, but in case it was meant seriously, that law is not dealing with the breaking of an oath. That's perjury. This was obstruction of justice. It's not a voluntary undertaking, like an oath; it's a prohibition laid by the law.

That said, I think it was a tempest in a teapot. Having missed convicting her on the substantive count(s?), they correctly (if unnecessarily) convicted her on the technical count for deterrence purposes. And the penalty given was substantially out of proportion even to the deterrence objective, in my opinion.

Strange thing is, if she had told the truth to the investigators, she would have got off scot free!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 08:12 AM

As if sending Martha to jail was going to act as a deterrence to anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 11:49 AM

It doesn't deter anyone. But sentencing her was not about deterence. SHE BROKE THE LAW. Why is that such a hard thing for people to see?

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:06 PM

They couldn't prove that she broke the law regarding the stock transaction. That's the Catch-22 here. They didn't have the proof. So the fact that they decided they'd like to prosecute her on something else since they had no proof of the first crime was an administrative decision by a zealous prosecutor. If you think she's guilty of the first crime, that's because she was tried in the court of public opinion and you are pronouncing her guilty, not the courts. The level of proof was much more squishy on the charges they did bring against her. It was a sham, considering all of the actual criminals out there who they could actually stand to prosecute.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:21 PM

Go lecture someone else or take it up with your legal system. She was greedy and she got caught. Live with it.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:23 PM

And regarding the criminals out there they could actually stand to prosecute: they should them too. Have a NICE day.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 03:59 PM

brucie, you seem so confidently well informed about this case. Which statute was it exactly which Ms Stewart broke? I am asking this honestly and genuinely, because I don't know what it was. I just know she was convicted on some lesser charge, and bizarrely as a first time offender with no criminal record, was also given jail time.

Can you enlighten me?

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 04:18 PM

Who are you. Until you state that, piss off.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 04:24 PM

Here.

GUEST,

Since you seem singularly unable to remember your name, perhaps you have difficulty using the internet. Click on the blue Here in this post and READ about it.

PS I have a good idea who you are. Sneaky and no intestinal fortitude, huh?

Now, piss off.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: gnu
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 04:29 PM

Yeah. That's the amazing part. Did not commit a crime, but lied about not committing a crime. Not a felony, a misdemeanour. And got jail time for the first offense. Hmmm, can anyone say, "There is no such thing as bad publicity."? Martha gets a five month vacation and her stock is worth triple and her "salary" is through the roof. Did the first female billionaire just pull a "gotcha".

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 04:38 PM

Her stock is back down by about 1/3, in a more normal range where it should trade.

She was convicted on "obstructing justice and lying to investigators," according to the headline of your story. She was not convicted on the stock insider sale. She didn't change her story, it's simply that the prosecutor cast doubt on the truth of her story. She was caught in a smear by the feds who were able to make her sound like a liar. That doesn't mean she was. It means they made it sound that way. Like that has never happened before. Shortly after the trial there were charges filed against state witnesses who perjored themselves during their testimony. That whole trial was a sad farce.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: gnu
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 04:41 PM

brucie!!! Who pissed in you cornflakes this morning? Point the SOB out and I'll have due with him.

Now, this is very unlike your usual demeanour. Is there anything that I can do? Write a note to Martha and ask if she'll go out on a date? Not with you... with me... Jaysus man. You wouldn't stand a chance with that attitude! Of course, with her demeanour and her money and her power, if she did go out with me on a date, she'd probably have her way with me and then never call me or speak to me again.... the perfect woman!

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 05:45 PM

First:

It is not MY opinion that she was guilty. It was the opinion of the court.

Second:

I dislike disingenuous trolls posing as guest who with a 'butter wouldn't melt in my mouth' attitude pose crap questions. The court
found her guilty. Therefore, she is guilty. At least that's the way I THINK American law works.

Three:

This is NOT at all unlike my usual demeanour. I have the ability to be very nice, but I tend to return what I receive. Just the way it is.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 06:51 PM

Martha still has appeals pending, so the question of her guilt or innocence is still up in the air. She decided to serve her sentance before all of her appeals were exausted because she wanted to be able to get on with her life. The charge for which she served time could eventually be overturned on appeal.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 07:11 PM

Zo. You have vut vee call zee Wildebeeste side, hmmm. Verrrry interesting. Und, you defend it as a Beeste vould defend against zee lions. Admirable. You are accepted in my herd anytime. Tonight we are having martinis served by gibbons. Drink up.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 12:10 AM

"Can you enlighten me?"

Highly unlikely.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 08:03 AM

That's bloody obvious.

As to a person being guilty because they are found guilty...not always the case. Our death rows are home to many an innocent man, railroaded by the legal system.

Methinks you have great difficulty with life's ambiguities, brucie boy.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 10:26 AM

And methinks you are without the decency to post your name. Piss off.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 11:10 AM

You aren't very decent brucie, yet you post with a user name. Hmmmm...

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 11:12 AM

You are tripe and you post. Why do you expect nice when you don't give it? Again, piss off.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 11:16 AM

I haven't been rude though, brucie. You have. Repeatedly. To the point where even another member mentioned something about your cornflakes.

Perhaps you didn't like being asked to demonstrate the knowledge you claimed to have of this legal case in particular, and of the US legal system in general, by an anon guest?

Yes of course, that was it. Silly me.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 11:17 AM

"The panel of eight women and four men began deliberating Wednesday on whether Stewart and Bacanovic, 41, obstructed justice and lied to the government about her sale of ImClone Systems Inc. stock in December 2001.

The conviction came exactly a week after U.S. District Judge Miriam Goldman Cedarbaum threw out the most serious charge against Stewart -- securities fraud -- which carried a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison and a $1 million fine."

She was convicted of the above. Found guilty by a jury of twelve. Which part are you having difficulty with. If you feel she was wrongly convicted, please detail what YOU have done to correct what you fell is a miscarriage of justice. Until then, piss off.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 11:18 AM

You are at present a nameless individual. You will not remain nameless for long. Have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 11:29 AM

Is that a threat brucie? You are such a tit-for-tat shit stirrer brucie. Why not just grow up? That way, maybe you won't end up pissing all over yourself in public, like you do here with such alarming frequency. Then grovel in the dirt until everyone takes pity on you, and welcomes you back into the fold. It's a real pattern with you, brucie. Have you sought professional help?

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 12:13 PM

It's not a threat. It is a promise.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 12:47 PM

The original question:

Did Martha Stewart break her parole?

I don't know, but if she did, the guys at This Old House can help her fix it.

Lighten up, guys! It's Friday. Go outside and get some fresh air.

Martha Stewart Living.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 12:50 PM

Really brucie, seek professional help. Anyone as thin skinned and unstable as you appear to be needs it.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 12:58 PM

Fresh air--excellent idea. I'm right behind you.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 01:27 PM

Guest: Sucking bowels again. Gotcha tagged. Have a good day.

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 02:29 PM

Let's give it a rest, shall we brucie?

Subject: RE: BS: did martha stewart break her parole?
From: Peace
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 05:05 AM

GUEST: You started. Not me. You want to give it a rest, you do so. Until then, eat shit.