 sj |
||
|
||
BS: US Prison Population Stats
|
|
|
Subject: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Ebbie Date: 24 Apr 05 - 06:10 PM What is the matter with us. Just about everywhere I look these days there is something that makes me just about despair. Our focus is on penning up adults, rather than putting concern and money into early-age intervention. US Prison Population Soars in 2003-2004 "By last June 30, there were 48,000 more inmates, or 2.3 percent, more than the year before, according to the latest figures from the Bureau of Justice Statistics. "The total inmate population has hovered around 2 million for the past few years, reaching 2.1 million on June 30, 2002, and just below that mark a year later. "While the crime rate has fallen over the past decade, the number of people in prison and jail is outpacing the number of inmates released, said the report's co-author, Paige Harrison. For example, the number of admissions to federal prisons in 2004 exceeded releases by more than 8,000, the study found. "Harrison said the increase can be attributed largely to get-tough policies enacted in the 1980s and 1990s. Among them are mandatory drug sentences, "three-strikes-and-you're-out" laws for repeat offenders, and "truth-in-sentencing" laws that restrict early releases. "As a whole most of these policies remain in place," she said. "These policies were a reaction to the rise in crime in the '80s and early 90s." "Added Malcolm Young, executive director of the Sentencing Project, which promotes alternatives to prison: "We're working under the burden of laws and practices that have developed over 30 years that have focused on punishment and prison as our primary response to crime." "He said many of those incarcerated are not serious or violent offenders, but are low-level drug offenders. Young said one way to help lower the number is to introduce drug treatment programs that offer effective ways of changing behavior and to provide appropriate assistance for the mentally ill.. "According to the Justice Policy Institute, which advocates a more lenient system of punishment, the United States has a higher rate of incarceration than any other country, followed by Britain, China, France, Japan and Nigeria." One Out of Every 138 Americans is Incarcerated |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Bill D Date: 24 Apr 05 - 06:20 PM I dunno, Ebbie...we can let 'em out, or shoot 'em, or throw more money and counseling or pray for divine intervention.... or go back to basics and ask just what the problem is. The awkward thing is, the only REAL solution may be something that no one wants to face. ANY solution that would seriously reduce those statistics would also seriously offend or upset a huge number of people. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Ebbie Date: 24 Apr 05 - 06:30 PM But why cut the funds for the youth programs that have been shown to have an effect? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Bill D Date: 24 Apr 05 - 06:37 PM I'm not suggesting that we do cut those funds...ANY program that really works ought to be pursued, but I really, seriously doubt that there is enough $$$$$ in the country to make a big reduction in the prison population through youth programs. Boy, would I like to be proved wrong! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Bill D Date: 24 Apr 05 - 06:41 PM addendum to that thought: The problem is, that program never ends. It is like sex-education/pregnancy programs for teenage girls.....there's new crop every year with the same attitudes and confusions. Unless some component is put into the program that radically changes basic attitudes, we will just have expensive band-aids |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: dianavan Date: 24 Apr 05 - 06:58 PM Quote from above: "He said many of those incarcerated are not serious or violent offenders, but are low-level drug offenders. Young said one way to help lower the number is to introduce drug treatment programs that offer effective ways of changing behavior and to provide appropriate assistance for the mentally ill.. Many drug offenders have a dual diagnosis; that is they are drug addicts and they are mentally ill. In large part this is because the mentally ill that are on the streets become prey to drug pushers. With appropriate support, these people can be helped to kick their habits and make better choices. As far as the money goes: There always seems to be enough money to wage war. Why not put the money toward prevention and rehabilitation at home? The cost of incarceration is far more than the cost of appropriate support. As a matter of fact, there are plenty of statistics to show that many prisoners could have been helped with early intervention and education if there was more money put into our schools. You know the old saying, pay now or pay later. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River Date: 24 Apr 05 - 07:09 PM It's a sad flippin' tale of p9lici brotality and injustice. Even I am, like, in jail, eh? And for nuthin'! I am a public benefackter who fights fer the common man's right to have a drink now and then. But I'm in Canada. I hope to get out soon. I am writting a novul about the flippin' outreagious conditions in the peenal system. That oughta be worth a few beer when I get out. - BDiBR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Ebbie Date: 24 Apr 05 - 08:19 PM (Go back to the truck, BDiBR. This time, crawl under it, OK?) Bill D, if there are really no measureable or discernable effects from early intervention programs, what about the success of a program like 'Head Start'? Here in Juneau we also have counseling programs in place in the 'Zach Gordon Youth Center'. I agree that there is and will be a fresh crop every day- but that's life. As children reach a certain age or a certain stage in life, they move on, and one would hope they have developed some insights that will give them some tools to use in the days and years ahead. Even if 10 kids a year see clearly that the life they will have is largely up to them, it is a noteworthy measure. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: robomatic Date: 24 Apr 05 - 08:32 PM "While the crime rate has fallen over the past decade, the number of people in prison and jail is outpacing the number of inmates released, said the report's co-author, Paige Harrison. It has been seriously suggested that the crime rate has dropped due to the Roe V. Wade decision in the 70's. But that's probably one of those 'solutions' that is politically charged. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Bobert Date: 24 Apr 05 - 08:47 PM This, infortuanately, is something, having been a jail house teacher in Richmond for 2 years, about which I know more than I'd like to know... Things haven't radically changed since those days... And a disporportionate nuber of incarecerate folks are black anf male... There have been and continue to be are folks in power, mostly white males, who set the rules. I'd like to think of them as "Rule Boys". But worse than setting the rules, they also own the media, they own the advertisers, they own the proaganda machines, they own purdy much everything... And so rather than use their power to make fir a faier and just America, which scares the Hell out of them becuase it threatens theie power base, they just do what ever is needed to keep Americans at *WAR* with themselves. And it works just fine.... for them. No, not for America, but for them... And it keeps their frontline brownshirts ready to take up arms and defend their little game... The prison idustrial complex exploits blacks folks to keep white folks from rebelling. Yeah, if you incarcerate enuff black folks then white folks, who because of the PR work that has been done about white folks gettin' beat up and raped by black folks in the joint, well, these white folks will become very good little brownshirt foot souldiers for the Ruling Class... So, the Ruling Class (Rule Boys), makes all kinds of rules that send a lot of *scarey* black folks into the joint to scare whitey to tow the line... But in doing this, Boss Hog and his Ruling Class do something else which very much keeps them in power. They divide!!! Yeah, they divide folks and keep folks scared of each other and that's all part of their plan to stay in power... And it works quite nicely for them... Oh, I can hear the usual cast of characters sayin' "Yeah, but drugs are illegal, Bobert. Yer all wrong!!!" Oh yeah, if we are so concerned about drugs then why would we turning a blind eye to all the poppis that are being grown in Afganistan??? Any of the usual cast of character want to answer that one??? No, didn't hink so... But, fast forward to the 16 year ol' kid in any inner city in America and all of a sudden that poppi plant is like real bad, bad, bad... And so the kid inevitabily ends up in Boss Hog's "PRISON/INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX" and the beat goes on... This system has not one thing to do with Chrisatianity or morality or any of them other things that Boss Hog's spokesmen and women in Government run their mouths about on Boss Hog's TV stations but a well thought out way to keep Boss Hog from having to share his wealth... And that, sadly, is the way it is... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Bill D Date: 24 Apr 05 - 08:48 PM Ebbie...I very carefully do not claim there were 'no discernable benefits',I too, have seen how Head Start can be a real help....I only wonder at the ultimate bureaucratic guide..."cost/benefit analysis". If it costs $100,000 per year for each child officially deemed 'helped', it will never last. I wish there were an easy way to tell what was on;y a band-aid, and what got at the underlying infection. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 Apr 05 - 09:03 PM never mind, at least they didn't get Bobby Fischer Maybe Iceland would take a few more |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 24 Apr 05 - 10:57 PM The violent crime rate in the USA has been steadily declining for the past 30 YEARS!
WHY? Abortion was legalized.
SOURCE? FREAKONOMICS by by Steven D. Levitt,Stephen J. Dubner - published 2005- love the section on school teachers cheating student scores for bonus money.
Sincerely, |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Peace Date: 24 Apr 05 - 11:03 PM Stats from 2004 |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 24 Apr 05 - 11:12 PM Good boy - brucie - good boy!
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Peace Date: 24 Apr 05 - 11:15 PM Hello, Gargoyle. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: dianavan Date: 24 Apr 05 - 11:59 PM Bill D. - Can you provide references? I thought it cost about $7000.00 a year for each child enrolled in Head Start while it costs about $28,000.00 per year to incarcerate a prisoner. I'm not a great statistician but it appears to be more cost effective to provide early intervention. It also appears that Head Start provides a program that is racially balanced while prisons do not. Could this justify providing Head Start to more Blacks and Hispanics? Providing early intervention and/or rehab. may be never ending but so is the costly incarceration of those who might otherwise be helped to integrate back into society as useful citizens. Don't get me wrong, there are some prisoners who should be incarcerated forever! Its also interesting to note that while the prison population is aging, their medical needs are also increasing thus driving up the cost of incarceration to an all-time high. Wouldn't it be better to provide the support they need before they become so dependent? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Peace Date: 25 Apr 05 - 12:00 AM D'van: The last figures I heard in Canada were closer to $55,000/year/prisoner. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Ebbie Date: 25 Apr 05 - 12:12 AM The first one I found: Prison Costs "Prison operating costs in New York State have risen by 148 percent since 1983, while the number of inmates has increased only 93 percent. It is estimated that the state's prison population will grow from the current 54,900 to 74,400 by the year 2000. "Seven other states with more than 20,000 inmates operate their prison systems at a significantly lower cost per prisoner. "Operating costs in New York are $24,173 per inmate, nearly $7,000 higher than the average of the other states. "If New York brought its costs in line with those of the other states, it could save almost $400 million annually. Spending could be reduced without jeopardizing the safety of corrections officers or inmates. "A primary factor in New York's high prison costs is the staffing ratio. At 567 staff per 1,000 inmates, the ratio is 37 percent higher than the average of the other states with large prisoner populations. "Source: Empire Foundation for Policy Research, 301 Hamilton Street, Robinson Square, Albany, NY 12210, (518) 432-4444." One Prison |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Peace Date: 25 Apr 05 - 12:17 AM "Largely because of health care expenses, the average cost of housing an inmate over 60 is $70,000 a year, or about three times the average cost for prisoners overall, said John Mills, a researcher at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta." That would make the Florida cost per inmate under 60 to be about $23,335/year. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: dianavan Date: 25 Apr 05 - 01:28 AM Ebbie - "...At 567 staff per 1,000 inmates..." Thats amazing! A ratio of 2:1. And yet they complain when teachers ask for lower class sizes! Compare a 2:1 ratio in prisons to a 22:l ratio in the primary grades. Early intervention, counselling, rehab., etc. is definitely more cost effective so when are we going to turn this whole thing around? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Bobert Date: 25 Apr 05 - 07:47 AM Well, d, the Prison Industrial Complex is run by Boss Hog and the schools are run by flamin' commies... ("Flamin' Commies", Bobert?) Well, let me put it this way. I was listenin' to the head of the NEA on C-SPAN the other day on the car radio and it seemed that when it got around to the call-in portion of the show that most of the folks who called in had that opinion of teachers... Now, had it been some warden of some bigass penitentury, you think folks woulda been callin' in callin' him a "flamin' commie"? Nevermind... Seems there are a lot of so-called pro-lifers out there that hate helping kids but love lockin' up adults... as per usual, nevermind... "Flamin' Commie" Bobert (former teacher...) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Bill D Date: 25 Apr 05 - 12:41 PM dianavan...I just re-read my post and I regret the confusion I caused....I was not giving figures for Head Start, and $100,000 was a made up number...I was just offering a hypothetical saying that IF it cost too much per child for ANY program, we could not manage. I usually scan for 'sense' better than that. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: dianavan Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:05 PM Doesn't matter, Bill - it led me to find some very relevant figures. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Ron Davies Date: 25 Apr 05 - 09:02 PM Trivial point, but still-- OK, now, come clean--did either you, Gargoyle, or you Robo, actually read the book cited by Gargoyle from which the information on Roe v Wade and the crime rate comes, alluded to by you both? Or did you, like me, read the review about it recently in the Wall St. Journal? If so, how about a little credit to the Journal? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: robomatic Date: 25 Apr 05 - 10:58 PM Uh, heard the author interviewed on the radio some time ago, and a reference to it came up recently, also on the radio. But go ahead and plug the journal yourownseff brucie, be ye so moved. This is my first exposure to Gargoyle since he posted some hate speech on an anti-semitic thread a while back, so I'm not happy about being in company with the ^&*(()head. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Azizi Date: 25 Apr 05 - 11:58 PM Thanks, Bobert for mentioning racial inequities in the criminal justice system. And thanks Brucie for providing a link to an article that gives statistics about the racial composition of prisons in the USA. Here is an excerpt from another article on this subject: "As of June 30, 2004, the U.S. incarceration rate was 726 per 100,000 residents. But when you break down the statistics you see that incarceration is not an equal opportunity punishment. U.S. incarceration rates by race, June 30, 2003: Whites: 376 per 100,000 Latinos: 997 per 100,000 Blacks: 2,526 per 100,000 Gender is an important "filter" on the who goes to prison or jail, June 30, 2004: Females: 123 per 100,000 Males: 1,348 per 100,000 Look at just the males by race, and the incarceration rates become even more frightening, June 30, 2004: White males: 717 per 100,000 Latino males: 1,717 per 100,000 Black males: 4,919 per 100,000 If you look at males aged 25-29 and by race, you can see what is going on even clearer, June 30, 2004: For White males ages 25-29: 1,666 per 100,000. For Latino males ages 25-29: 3,606 per 100,000. For Black males ages 25-29: 12,603 per 100,000. (That's 12.6% of Black men in their late 20s.)" For more, read: Prison Racial Statistics Also those interested can read this next article which cites inequities in the drug laws as one reason so many African Americans are imprisoned: Race, Prison, and Drug Laws |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Azizi Date: 26 Apr 05 - 12:11 AM Also see this quote from this article: Eacial Disparities & Drugs "A recent report by Human Rights Watch has documented something African-Americans have known for years: The U.S. war on illegal drugs has been waged unfairly against blacks. The report, "Punishment and Prejudice: Racial Disparities in the War on Drugs", includes the first state-by-state analysis of the role of race and drugs in prison admissions. All of the 37 states Human Rights Watch studied send black drug offenders to prison at far higher rates than whites. "These racial disparities are a national scandal," said Ken Roth, Executive Director of Human Rights Watch. "Black and white drug offenders get radically different treatment in the American justice system. This corrodes the American ideal of equal justice for all." -snip- Also, see this excerpt from this article on Sentencing Disparaties "The sentencing disparity between crack and powder cocaine has wreaked havoc on minority communities. First, the powder form of cocaine that is preferred by wealthier, usually white consumers, requires 100 times as much weight to trigger the same penalty as the crack form. These stiff penalties apply to the mere possession of crack, unlike any other drug which requires an intent to distribute. As an initial step to address this blatant inequity, the penalties for these two forms of the same drug should be harmonized at the current levels for powder cocaine. In 1986, before mandatory minimums instituted the crack/powder sentencing disparity, the average sentence for blacks was 6% longer than the average sentence for whites. Four years later following the implementation of this law, the average sentence was 93% higher for blacks." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Bev and Jerry Date: 26 Apr 05 - 12:34 AM Here in sunny California prisons constitute a major industry. Small towns compete vigorously to have prisons built in or near them to boost their failing economies. Prisons provide lots of good paying jobs that can't be outsourced to India or China. The guards are unionized and their union donates heavily to political campaigns to ensure that funds for the prison system continue to increase. This includes getting legislation passed that provides more prisoners. Bev and Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Wolfgang Date: 26 Apr 05 - 07:09 AM Ebbie - "...At 567 staff per 1,000 inmates..." Thats amazing! A ratio of 2:1. And yet they complain when teachers ask for lower class sizes! Compare a 2:1 ratio in prisons to a 22:l ratio in the primary grades. (Dianavan) Dianavan, I have rarely seen a more blatant abuse of statistics than that. Well, actually I see it nearly daily by politicians who use numbers for impression and not for information, but in serious discussions such a treatment of numbersshould have no place. Other than pupils inmates don't go home after a six hour or whatever day and they don't go on vacation (if it can be prevented). You need about 5 people of staff if you want to have 1 person present all year long counting vacations, nights, weekends, holidays, sickness and other leaves. So the real number for an informed comparison is not 2:1 but 10:1. One more difference is that in prisons, more often than in schools, a 1:1 ratio is needed. You can tell a pupil to go to the director for a briefing and expect she does by herself, you wouldn't do that with an inmate. The prisons population in the USA is very high. That can be debated and criticised, but propaganda based on misread statistics is not a good basis for discussion. Wolfgang |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: dianavan Date: 26 Apr 05 - 11:17 AM Wolfgang - I was using that ratio in terms of the cost of prevention. Not in terms of nuber of working hours. I would still say it is far more cost effective to educate than to incarcerate. I would hardly say that is blatant abuse. You are the one twisting the facts. Read the previous posts it you want to know what I am referring to instead of jumping to conclusions about my intent. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Ebbie Date: 26 Apr 05 - 11:45 AM Bev and Jerry, as you imply, imo that is a major problem with privatizing prisons. It creates constant pressure to keep those prisons filled. When legislation to change laws or to consider other options certain crimes is presented, private, for-profit prisons have a loud voice. Currently, Alaska sends many of its prisoners to a private prison in Arizona. Azizi, I don't know the figures but in Alaska I understand that there is a prison popluation disparity between whites and Alaska Natives. (Generally, Tlingit, Haida, Athabascan, Gwich'in, Inupiat, Inuit, Aleut and others that don't come to mind as readily) There are many explanations given. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Bill D Date: 26 Apr 05 - 12:19 PM well...I hate to interject another perspective to the discussion, but some points have been missed... regarding "..Early intervention, counselling, rehab., etc. is definitely more cost effective"..... perhaps so- that is yet to be demonstrated definitively. It would certainly be a more desirable way, even if the cost were a bit higher. It is the case, however that until that is demonstrated and accomplished, we have both costs to deal with. Education/counseling programs must be developed, tested and evaluated and decisions made as to whether they are, as I said, reducing problems or merely applying band-aids. Therefore- while we are attempting to educate, we must incarcerate, and we must incarcerate those who are committing the crimes, no matter what their race or ethnicity. I am well aware of the statistics regarding prison population, just as I am aware of the heated arguments about why this imbalance exists. Unfortunately, statistics do not do a lot to clarify causality. In major league sports- baseball, football and especially basketball, minority ethnic groups are also in the majority, or tending that way. Is THIS 'unfair'? At one time, minority players were not allowed on major league teams, and that was clearly unfair. Now that competition is the deciding factor, it is common to see a basketball team with only black players. Obviously, there are multiple factors which favor them when deciding the composition of a team. We could argue all day whether it is social pressure, hereditary size or dogged determination which makes a good basketball player--and the answer is no doubt some undefinable combination. (There is hot debate in some quarters over whether "quick-twitch" muscles are hereditary or developed, and thus, whether African-Americans have a physical advantage...some are sure they do - some disagree) So, I submit, the same questions are relevant for the prison population. If you are going to design educational programs, you need to know what you are up against....that is, to what degree you are combating poverty, discrimination and personal image, and to what degree cultural attitudes and social conditioning that operate semi-independently? I can describe at length several other areas where it is not always clear WHY a problem exists (driving habits, language differences..etc) but in almost all of these issues, just suggesting that certain ideas should be examined as possible components of the overall problem is a very delicate matter and often highly 'politically incorrect'. It is my opinion that much NEEDED study is never undertaken because of fear that some group (or, often groups) will be offended and object--usually even before any conclusions are drawn! If we are going to solve the problems of prisons, as well as other related social problems, we will have to get beyond the pressures of those who have a vested interest in the answers. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: dianavan Date: 27 Apr 05 - 02:16 AM http://www.michiganinbrief.org/edition07/Chapter5/ChildEarlyEd.htm The longest and most extensive evaluation of an early-childhood program is the High/Scope Perry Preschool Program (Ypsilanti). High/Scope has been following a group of individuals who had attended the preschool program when they were aged three and four. At age 27, they have higher income, fewer arrests, and less welfare participation than do members of a control group that did not participate in the program. Beyond the direct benefits to the children, every dollar invested in the program returned $7.16 to the public in reduced costs of crime, welfare, and remedial education (1993 data). The Chicago Longitudinal Study follows the education and social development of more than 1,500 low-income children born in 1980 who were served by the Chicago Child-Parent Center. At age 21 the participants, when compared to a peer group who did not receive the center's services, have a 29 percent higher rate of high-school completion, a 42 percent lower rate of juvenile arrest for violent offenses, 41 percent fewer special-education placements, and 51 percent fewer allegations of child abuse and neglect. Every dollar invested in the program returned $7.10 to the public in reduced costs of crime, welfare, and remedial education (2001 data). |
|
Subject: RE: BS: US Prison Population Stats From: Wolfgang Date: 27 Apr 05 - 11:47 AM instead of jumping to conclusions about my intent. (Dianavan) Dianavan, I do not know your intent nor do I pretend to, I just deal with what you have written and that was nonsense in my eyes. Wolfgang |
