BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: mg
Date: 09 May 05 - 04:50 PM

here is an interesting story. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=9002535

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: Peace
Date: 09 May 05 - 03:02 PM

http://www.cybercambodia.com/dachs/killing.html

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: mg
Date: 09 May 05 - 03:00 PM

Do you not know what happened there? Here is a link to some oral histories etc. Warning, even the first picture is pretty horrifying.

http://www.cybercambodia.com/dachs/killing.html

There are oral histories etc. on the web. I think it is up to people who want to educate themselves to seek them out. mg

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 05 - 04:41 PM

"I assume that is common knowledge."

this translates to: i don't know a damn thing about this subject but that doesn't stop me from shooting off my mouth about it"

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST,Guy Who Drinks
Date: 08 May 05 - 04:17 PM

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 07 May 05 - 09:52 PM

Not responding to you, mary garvey, but to initiating Guest.

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: mg
Date: 07 May 05 - 03:50 PM

not all the world is composed of links. What do you need to know? That there are tigers in Cambodia? Google shows 400,000 hits. That babies were left on trails? I assume that is common knowledge. Put the two together. I don't know if a specific link exists. I have writings of Cambodian girls talking about fearing, and perhaps encountering, but I don't recall, tigers when they escaped. mg

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 May 05 - 03:34 PM

Mary G, where do you find this information? I would appreciate a link.

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST,Guy who thinks as well as you, guy who think
Date: 07 May 05 - 03:32 PM

His picture's here.

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: mg
Date: 07 May 05 - 03:25 PM

not my title. mg

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 07 May 05 - 02:01 PM

Well, the title you chose for this thread is "American Slaughter of Vietnamese."

Not, for example, "To Mourn All Victims of Indochina War," which IMO would be more realistic and appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: mg
Date: 07 May 05 - 12:03 PM

And is that funny either? mg

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST,Wise and Wonderful
Date: 07 May 05 - 11:09 AM

A dingo ate my baybay!

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: mg
Date: 07 May 05 - 11:03 AM

I fail to see the humor in babies being eaten by tigers, or left to die of starvation and exposure, and can not understand how someone would find it amusing.    mg

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST,Wise and Wonderful
Date: 07 May 05 - 09:45 AM

Guy Who Claims to Think (not to mention put words in the mouths of others)--just where in this thread, or any other for that matter, has anyone "never regard(ed) the Vietnamese who opposed Communism as being "Vietnamese"?

I just love the way people like the Big Guy Who Thinks read their own prejudices into what a person doesn't say.

That claim makes as much sense as the babies being eaten by tigers claim does...

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 07 May 05 - 09:41 AM

And before its destruction as well.

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 07 May 05 - 09:40 AM

Ever notice that the Marxist posters around here never regard the Vietnamese who opposed Communism as being "Vietnamese"?

Their country was the Republic of Vietnam, and after its destruction they paid a heavy price.

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST,Wise and Wonderful
Date: 07 May 05 - 09:23 AM

Especially the babies being eaten by the tigers. I love that one! Sounds like something the Ingrid Bergman charachter would say in "Murder on the Orient Express".

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: Bobert
Date: 07 May 05 - 07:41 AM

And just how does this picture of cruelty dovetail in supportin' the domino theory???... Please elaborate...

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: mg
Date: 07 May 05 - 12:23 AM

The domino theory was a bit more than a publicity stunt. Try this. If you wanted water, you had to lick it off the boots of your sadistic guard. If you wanted to eat, you ate mice. If you escaped, you had to leave crying babies on the trail, perhaps to be eaten by tigers. Perhaps worse. Not a publicity stunt. mg

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: Bobert
Date: 06 May 05 - 09:51 PM

Well, all I can say is, like Iarq, Vietnam was a war of imperialiam and colonialism... Them is some dumbass reasons to get into a war and most of the time when countries enter into wars based on those factors, they end up on the loosin' side, just as the US/UK situation in Iraq...

The "Domino Theory" was nuthin' but a PR stunt by the colonialists. Same with the supposed Gulf of Tonkin crap... (Think WMD here...)

Nothin has really changed here... The US is the world bully and loves to go mess with folks... It has a thirst for others folks blood... Be it the Native Americans who inhabited what is not the US, the Hispanics in the Spainish American War, the Mexicans in the Polk's Mexican War....

Don't much matter, the US takes what it wants and comes up with all kinds of rationalizations for doing so...

Whereas I love and respect my brothers who fought and died in Nam, the US had no business in sending them there and I am glad that the Vietnamese people won their own friggin' country...

Imperilaism and colonialism is wrong, no matter who's doing it...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST,Wise and Wonderful
Date: 06 May 05 - 07:34 PM

When you can't discuss the facts, you resort to attacking the messenger.

Sure, and aren't I Charlie in the Mudcat bush?

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 05 - 06:39 PM

Raedwulf,

Just a while back you gave me shit for getting all pissed at a guest, and here YOU are doing it. I don't suppose you want me to quote you now, do you?

BM

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: Raedwulf
Date: 06 May 05 - 04:56 PM

And that ridiculous last post... By whom exactly? Because at no point did I compare Guest (oooh look, another passing clod, I mean, cloud, we can't identify) to the Vietnamese.

I was merely pointing out that "Yet another do we care who the f*** they are" Guest's arguments weren't likely to make much of an impression. Lo & behold! Up pops another passing loosely packed blob of water vapour...

I am both fortunate & glad to be able to say that neither I nor (almost any) of my immediate family (my maternal grandfather woke up screaming in the night after his experiences in WWI, that's it...) have any direct experience of war. Lucky me. My knowledge of war is almost entirely based on my knowledge of history.

Now, who are you, Guest, & why (& how) the fuck do you presume to label me as a warmonger?

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 05 - 04:37 PM

And that ridiculous last post comparing an anon guest poster to the vietnamese, means guest you have won the argument hands down and made your point. The war mongers have no weapon of reason.

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: Raedwulf
Date: 06 May 05 - 04:12 PM

But apparently you don't support giving yourself a name, so that all those you're busy attacking can be sure that they're replying to the same person.

Of course, that's just like Vietnam, ain't it? Where the poor bloody bastard on the ground never knew who was shooting at him or where it was coming from? So he had to spray around indiscriminately (I believe "suppressing fire", or something like it, is the military terminology) in the hope that he might save the lives of some of the blokes he actually knew.

Funnily enough, your life isn't in danger, is it Guest? This is only an internet chat forum. You might get flamed, but it ain't napalm. Yet you still don't have the courage of your... opinions (I won't call them convictions, not unless you care to show me the criminal record...). But we all know Rapaire. We know who he is, we know what he's done (we know where you live, Rap... ;-) ).

And I respect his opinion even when I don't agree with it, because I know Rap, via Mudcat, to have an opinion worth respecting & worth taking time to consider.

You, Guest? You're an anonymous puff of verbiage. Who in this thread supports you? Ever wondered whether you could make your point in a better fashion? As far as I can see you have no support for your point of view here. That doesn't mean you're wrong. But if it doesn't make you stop & think, I promise you that you will spend a very large part of your life railing against the stupidity of a world incapable of realising how wise & wonderful you are...

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 05 - 09:35 AM

I support peacekeeping and humanitarian missions only, like Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Chile, Haiti, Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq...

-to defend against tyranny, not create it.

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 05 - 07:57 AM

I support peacekeeping and humanitarian missions only, not imperial wars like Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Chile, Haiti, Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq...

That is it. That is all I think the US military should be used for--to defend against tyranny, not create it.

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: mg
Date: 05 May 05 - 03:21 PM

True enough about Pol Pot. Remember the domino theory? He was it. And of course Laos had terrible times too. But the line somehow held in other places, for which we can be thankful.

I caught the tale end of a show on diaries that young women had written during the Holocost..from Ukraine, Poland etc...I was stunned bhy how similar they were to the writings of young Cambodian teens I had worked with, and who survived when so many did not. If anyone is in touch with the hereafter, tell them we tried. mg

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 05 - 02:50 PM

I agree with sixties chick. It's time to stop fighting the Vietnam war.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST,X the unknown
Date: 05 May 05 - 08:16 AM

So what's your point, mad Preacher Guest?

If America had sent troops to destroy Pol Pot, you'd rant and rave about that too, wouldn't you? Wouldn't you?

You say you're not an advocate of nonviolence. What sort of violence DO you advocate?

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 05 - 07:45 AM

No ones forgetting the boat people, Ho Chi Minh or the war crimes committed by the Vietnamese. But that still doesn't change this fact: the US is responsible for the deaths of 3 million Vietnamese people.

Claymore: may I ask WHY you were in THEIR country shooting at THEM to begin with, hmmmmmm???

Doesn't matter if you thought you were "winning" (though I question in what sense--the body count? territory held?) when you left Vietnam. The losers were the civilians of Vietnam and Cambodia.

And aren't you vets forgetting to mention Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge too? We didn't do jack about them, now did we or great and mighty cold warrior vets?

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST,MarkS
Date: 04 May 05 - 11:28 PM

Hey Rapaire and Claymore-

Guest would not know a Medcap from a Mudcat, and by leaving out small details like the boat people, the reeducation camps, and the now admitted irredentist role of the North in triggering the "homegrown" revolution in the south, he displays a brain dead tendentiousness which invalidates the very arguments he makes.

Mark(war zone C in '69)S

ps - Weren't there other ideological motors at the time? Hard to remember. The "USSR" or "Mao", or something?

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 05 - 10:35 PM

But, Claymore, you too are finding out that the Afghanis are tough. Let's also hope that Iraq does not become another Vietnam. The US was supposed to be out of Iraq already.

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: Claymore
Date: 04 May 05 - 06:14 PM

First of all I quarrel with the incredibley stupid statement "Innocent Vietnamese". All the ones I shot or called air or arty on, were wearing uniforms and shooting at me. Since I was up in the DMZ, there were no villages anywhere around. And when I left in '69, we were winning.

The way I look at it, I shot enough of them to get me home...

As for history, we learned enough about guerilla warfare to arm the Afghans, bleed the Russian Army dry, and win the Cold war without firing a shot. Remember, it is Communism that is on the ash heap of history... And soon the radical Muslims will join them...

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 05 - 02:38 PM

Correction, millions of innocents, not thousands.

The point of the thread--the 30th anniversary of the fall of Saigon.

What do I want you to do? Know your history, and act to prevent the repetition of it.

As to the "who started it" crap--scroll up. I posted the first post, and I was attacked for it in the second post from robomatic.

But at least we know who the people are who don't bother reading from the beginning of the thread before they post...

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 May 05 - 01:53 PM

I echo Gervase's question: What is your point? Let's say that we agree with you, (which I don't) that the US has unthinkingly, unblinkingly slaughtered untold thousands of innocents- what do you want us to do about it? What's past is past- the future is where we must bend our efforts. So let's hear some plans, some methods for reaching and re-educating millions of Americans and their government.

??

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: Gervase
Date: 04 May 05 - 12:33 PM

Guest, if you're into pointing up logical fallacies, I'd refer you to your own posts attacking Rapaire and robomatic.
But what is your point?

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: mg
Date: 04 May 05 - 11:02 AM

and girls remember. mg

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 05 - 08:05 AM

Ad hominem attacks don't become you Gervase.

I notice no one here is disputing the original facts. That the US is responsible for the slaughter of 3 million innocent Vietnamese, 600,000 Cambodians, over 100,000 Iraqis--but hell, the US has become such an efficient death machine, we don't even count the Iraqi civilian casualties because in our world they don't count for shit.

Just our boys. Just our vets.

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: Gervase
Date: 04 May 05 - 04:38 AM

You're not going to change the opinions of some little jerk who's trying to yank your chain for the anonymous, safe thrill of it. Confront it with decently held opinions and it squeals louder and sprays yet more accusations for heaven's sake.
The poor little thing hasn't got into joined-up thinking yet and is propably laundering some major guilt by whacking off at veterans. OK, maybe you're helping in the process of catharsis for some fucked-up little saddo, but you're not going to make it think like a grown-up.
I used to see the type on demonstrations - hyped up with visceral outrage and shouting louder than anyone, but they never actually did anything. More to be pitied than scorned, really...

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 05 - 03:36 PM

The number of native people killed by the U.S. army long ago probably isn't knowable for certain. 50,000 between 1776 and 1890 may be a reasonable estimate based on population density and frequency of conflict. It even could be on the high side.

Most of the Indian Wars resulted from land-hungry settlers violating treaties and then demanding protection from the government when the Indians understandably replied in kind.

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 May 05 - 02:19 PM

Yes. Equal time. Please to note that all the evil US military is not composed only of men.   mg

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: Kim C
Date: 03 May 05 - 02:02 PM

Equal time for everyone. The US doesn't have the corner on the slaughter market.

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 05 - 01:44 PM

Equal time for whom?

Wouldn't the more relevant question be, how many native people in the US were slaughtered by the US military? We are, after all, talking about the US empire here, not the British (though they've plenty of blood on their hands as well, I do believe the US may have even surpassed the British in terms of genocide, war crimes, civilian slaughters, etc).

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: Kim C
Date: 03 May 05 - 12:50 PM

In the interest of equal time - how many Australian Aboriginals did the English slaughter?

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: mg
Date: 03 May 05 - 12:46 PM

We can't go save them in Darfur and these other places because then Guest wouldn't like what we would have to do in order to accomplish that. Bad enough we tried to save them in other places but now we know much better. Soon we will totally see the light and lay down all our arms. The same bright light will shine over any potential enemies who will simultaneously lay down theirs and not even think of taking advantage of a world of innocent lambs. Which they could then do with a few rocks and bamboo sticks but don't tell them that. mg

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 03 May 05 - 11:07 AM

Rapaire has it right except for the part about the "liberal media" not reporting the Hue massacre. It was widely reported almost immediately. The Communist propaganda story was that the U.S. and South Vietnamese were responsible. That way Hanoi could have its cake and eat it too.

Ownership of virtually any land in the "Democratic" Republic of Vietnam in the '50s - even half an acre - qualified you for execution as an "enemy of the people."

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: GUEST,Mimi
Date: 02 May 05 - 04:54 PM

Magma Charter = a Freudian slip involving an erupting volcano, IMO.

Also, I never knew that Americans were busy killing everybody back then, except for natives killing other natives, and perhaps a Norseman or two who strayed Westward Ho. Amazing, the stuff you can learn on the 'cat.

Subject: RE: BS: American Slaughter of Vietnamese
From: Peace
Date: 02 May 05 - 04:22 PM

"Magma Charter"

Typo or the document of 1215?