BS: Advice on Rodent control

Subject: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: GUEST,Member
Date: 02 May 05 - 09:38 AM

For the record I have lived in harmony with the Wildlife species surrounding me all my life. Where ever I have lived.
I accord them the respect due, and understand we share the enviroment.
I have a quite a bit of Land that I work and maintain.
I do not encourage or discourage species from the enviroment I have choosen to Live in.
I Fish but do not hunt. I do not hunt because I have no interest in it. In saying that I can understand certain hunting regulations for population control and diseases. You have to where I live.
In saying that my Land is posted due to Horses and Dogs and Home friendly critters which mean the world to me.
I could say more but you get the idea. I am and will remain dedicated to sharing my Land with the Wildlife who have always been here.
I am though...a realist...at times...
I have a problem on my hands though and it is driving me crazy!

I have a manmade Pond. It was here when I came. Not in good shape just a big fill ditch really. Not running water...a fill pond.
I have put a lot of work has gone into this mini eco system. It is 200ft by 140 ft across and in center...oh about 9 foot deep. It is not a running water pond. It does however have a run offpipe I insatlled so I can control the water level when it gets too high, the runoff runs under the road through the Pipe into a wetland area.

3 years ago.... coming from an Neighbors Land we had a visit from a Family of Beavers.....it was like a Nuclear explosion. They took out 60 Trees in 2 Weeks. Not little mind...60 full grown 30 to 40 year old trees.
It was hellish.
We took some non lethal methods in our approach to making them leave but they had built a small dam under the water level at the far Pond side (which is unusual for them as it is a Pond not a running water enviroment). Taking the Dam apart was...unbelievable. While in awe of their Architectural knowledge it was a killer of a job and took nearly a week of very hard work to complete...!
A Trapper Friend suspected a Rogue who had been ejected from one of the Colonies that have lived on our Neighbor's Land for a substantial number of Years now (these People live quite a bit away from our Land) and have 100 acres with 6 very large Colonies and Damns on their property!!!

Our Friend suggested Trapping (legally) but I just couldn't handle the thought of the Animal drowning in a Conibear or a Snare Cable...do you see my dilemma??

The Neighbor (with the Colonies) takes no action as it does not affect Him but it does affect a lot of the property surrounding Him!! A lot of people's Wells and Septics have been affected in the Area in the past...let's just say he ain't the most popular guy in Town. .As we found out when the Beaver's visited us the last time!

The Neighbor who has the Land with the Beaver Colonies is a Lawyer who moved here from the City and has very little knowledge of Land Management but He and his Family think Beavers are cute (which they are ) but then they have not been on the recieving end of the distruction these "Cute" mini natural Foresters can do!!!
We have had no problems for 3 years. During this time we have worked VERY hard to restore the fallout from the damage. Planting and repairing the Pond area which is now...even if I say so myself. ...simply beautiful. Blue Crane, Fishers, Bats, Acquatic Life, plant species, Deer, Turtles, and our Yearly return of Ducks and Canadian Geese and many other Creatures.

This morning however.....there it was...a Beaver drag mark across the Road to the wetland area across the way from us and a half chewed log in the middle of the Road.....I am in shock and fear....

Any advice on how to stop this before it goes any further would be MOST appreciated.
I know some of our members are or have been Wardens with extensive knowledge on these matters and I would really be grateful for your Counsel.
Thank you in advance..(hopefully)

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 May 05 - 11:14 AM

Bullets and beaver skin hats? I've been told that grilled beaver tail is quite tasty....sorry, no helpful suggestions.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 May 05 - 11:19 AM

You may be able to hire an outside trapper to come in and do the job for you. They will kill the animals for their pelts. This is a point where you have to make a choice--beavers are hard-headed about continuing to build. I have seen huge trees in forests in Washington State that they tried to gnaw through (trees upwards of 3-4 feet through!). There really isn't a pretty way to deal with the population except to trap them live and relocate them, thus giving the problem to someone else.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: gnu
Date: 02 May 05 - 11:29 AM

I am aghast, nay, OUTRAGED!!!! Beavers are NOT architects. They are ENGINEERS. You're lucky they didn't fell a tree on your house after you insulted them so vilely.

g, M.Sc.Eng, P.Eng.

(Seriously, do not break dams until you have removed them, one way or another. They are better off being shot than having their dams broken.)

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: open mike
Date: 02 May 05 - 01:15 PM

i thought you were talkiung about mice or rats..
i do not often think of beavers as rodent..
see here for more: www.beaversww.org/beaver.html
this mentions Hancock or Bailey live traps..
i have seen tree protection fences that work.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: GUEST,gnu
Date: 03 May 05 - 06:43 AM

Environment Canada's "Hinterland Who's Who"

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: GUEST,gnu
Date: 03 May 05 - 07:51 AM

BTW, as for the "rogue" theory, beavers naturally expand their territory as the population increases and food sources decrease. Yup, even if you relocate or kill them, you'll have the same problem recurring.

To kill them is a shame, so, all you can do is relocate them... just make sure you do it as soon as they begin a dam because the energy they spend is in direct proportion to their winter survival rate. Like I said above, there comes a point when they would be better off being shot than starving to death over the winter. (Are you in a cold winter zone?)

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: GUEST,Member
Date: 03 May 05 - 08:12 AM

Yes I am in a cold climate zone Gnu.
Sorry about the Architect error...Engineers it is then...(smile)
I only took the damn apart once they had gone last time...
Yeah I know what your saying...shooting them is ..no....and starving them out is..totally repugnant.
What a mess.
Tried Bright light down there last night.
Rigged Spotlights around the pond (looked like a film location..haha) and there seems to be no damage around this morning.
Fall is going be interesting if this carries on!
I lowered the water level in the pond again yesterday and went on a hike to check around the neighbor's acres. Boy do they have Beaver Colonies or what!!!!
Wired Meshed some (couldn't afford to do all of them!!!) Trees and spread some Coyote Urine around the Pond..
Have thought about putting Alkyd paint with some sand in it on the Tree bases which I have heard deters chewing....might look funny but then again it might help...Ill do anything that avoids lethal means. Rather have odd looking Trees for a while and no Beavers than have no Trees and Beavers..if you get my drift!!
Thank you All for helping me out.
Even just talking about it makes me feel slightly less anxious.
Great link Gnu thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: GUEST,kat coming in the back door
Date: 03 May 05 - 08:54 AM

Here's some info from a couple of sites which might be helpful:

From Fund for Animals, with a diagram near the bottom of their page:

The best systems for controlling beaver flooding are based on deception and exclusion. The beaver dam can be breached in such a way that the beavers don?t hear the sound of running water, and the water level can then be controlled, unbeknownst to the beavers!

One of the least expensive, easy to install and simplest methods is based on PVC pipes. The beauty of the system is that it is inexpensive ($40?$100) and may take as little as an hour to install. Maintenance is minimal?the pipes should be checked frequently for a few weeks after installation and every few months thereafter. Any debris caught in the pipes usually can be cleared in a matter of minutes.

Before installing any water level control device, be sure to check if your town requires breach permits or has other restrictions.

TOOLS: Saber saw, drill, hammer, sledge hammer, wire cutter, pliers, small rake.
SUPPLIES: At least 4 perforated 6" diameter PVC pipes (10 ft lengths), 2 metal fence posts with holes (longer than the water is deep, plus two 2-ft lengths for cross pieces), a piece of high concrete reinforcement wire mesh (10' long, 5' high, 5" mesh squares), shingle nails, 4 nuts and bolts, form wire.

The system involves putting perforated 10' long PVC pipes (6" diameter, available at plumbing supply stores) through the dam to ensure adequate water flow. You will need to attach 2 or more lengths of pipe together since you want at least 20' of pipe of which 15' is extended away from the dam on the inlet side. The farther the pipe openings are from the dam, the less likely it is that the beavers will associate the pipes with the dam.


from This Site: Nonlethal Prevention and Control

Another method of discouraging beavers is to install a device to manipulate the water level of a pond. This can be accomplished by installing a three-log drain (Figure 3) or wire mesh culvert that the beavers cannot plug. Lowering the water level in the summer encourages wild or planted foods to grow, providing excellent habitat and food for waterfowl.

For more information on constructing water control structures to discourage beavers and enhance waterfowl habitat, contact a Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources District biologist or the Cooperative Extension Service.
One innovative way to discourage beavers is the use of a high tensile electric fence (Figure 4). Stake a portable battery or solar-powered charging unit some distance from a run (slide) or a hole knocked into the dam. If you are placing the wire across a slide, mow or trim the vegetation very close to the ground. Finally, string a single strand of wire three inches above the ground or water's surface so the beavers will strike it as they pass through the slide or attempt to repair the hole in the dam. This electric shock acts to repel the animals; if they are shocked enough, they will move to another area.
Daily tearing out dams and removing dam construction materials with dynamite may cause a colony or individual beaver to move. This is very dangerous and not recommended. Even if this procedure is effective, the beavers may move into a new area and become even more troublesome.

Hope this helps; I hate to think of them having to be destroyed.:-)

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: GUEST,gnu
Date: 03 May 05 - 09:15 AM

So, they are coming from your neighbour's property and felling your trees. I would think you could sue him for the price of the trees at maturity... that might open his eyes. Especially if you have video evidence. The arguement, in it's basic form, is that: you cannot regulate the beaver population on his land; his failure (negligence) to regulate the beaver population on his land is causing you harm; because he is the one who, through his negligence, is the cause of the problem, you are due compensation from him.

Any lawyers out there care to comment?

If you have no dam on your property at present, breech any dam as soon as they start to build it and breech it daily. They WILL get the message and move on. I have done this early in the spring and they gave up after about a week.

(Re the paint... is it non-toxic?)

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: GUEST,gnu
Date: 03 May 05 - 09:17 AM

Breach... with an "a"... more tea, I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: open mike
Date: 03 May 05 - 11:44 AM

how did you get the coyotes to pee in a jar so you could pour it around?

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 May 05 - 05:20 PM

Eat hundreds of mice weekly, pee in a jar yourself, pour it around. The beavers will think it's a coyote or a wolf and they'll leave.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: gnu
Date: 03 May 05 - 05:34 PM

Why dirty the jar?

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 May 05 - 05:37 PM

Good point. I can see you have your thinking cap on today, my good man.

The purchase of a wolf costume might help as well, accompanied by some nightly howling sessions.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: gnu
Date: 03 May 05 - 06:19 PM

Never Cry Wolf. One of my all-time favourites. The look on their little faces as Tyler chows down.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 May 05 - 02:21 PM

You don't say where you live, but in a lot of places, beavers fall under the jurisidiction of the State Wildlife Management office in the department of natural resources. They will help to bring the problem under control--often, there are regulations that dictate what you can do, and when you can do it, and they are the ones who would authorize exceptions when there is an immediate problem--

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 May 05 - 06:07 PM

I read a book, I think it was called "Beaver Pond," written by a woman who observed a beaver colony for a long time, a couple for several years. They ate the corms of a certain kind of lily.

Why don't you find out what they eat besides trees and plant that for them to eat? Why don't you get in touch with your Department of Conservation, Natural Resources, Wildlife or whatever and get some authoritative information?

If you get rid of these beavers, you will just get others eventually.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 May 05 - 06:49 PM

Beavers cut down the mature trees for building materials, not food. Planting food they like will only encourage thenm to be more destructive.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: GUEST,Member
Date: 04 May 05 - 08:52 PM

Well Thanks to all.
I have had two quiet nights in a row which is a good thing, so I guess my efforts have helped.
Leeneia. I have lived in a pretty remote area for a number of Years. I do not want to call Wildlife Control in as I know that Beavers do not relocate well and I do not wish to use Trapping or Shooting as a solution.
I really just wanted suggestions as to how to deal with this problem with the least inpact on the Animal and some support.
I won't however plant food to encourage them as I want to keep what large trees I have left from their last visit and the new ones I planted:>)
I know they will return, it is what happens when you choose to share their enviroment.
So information is power and support is priceless.
Thanks again to everyone and ok yes even though they strike terror in my heart when I see the first signs of the havoc that could follow a visit from them...Beavers are pretty cool when all is said and done and are amazing "Engineers" (nod to Gnu) so if I can find out as many ways as possible so we can all live happily together without them or my Land coming to harm then........
I will be one very Happy Woman.
THANKS AGAIN TO ALL.
As for the Neighbor...well I noticed some trees today chewed and felled near his Home, he can't possibly miss them and how they came to be there so maybe he is getting a little wake up call!
No doubt the Universe is unfolding as it should....(smile)
ps: I have no idea how they get the Coyote urine...it comes in a bottle and I don't want to know how it gets there... but it sure works....If I could get the several Coyotes that live around here to come pee around my Pond I would...*bg*...but then that would be another issue......

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 May 05 - 09:37 PM

Howling at the moon might help....**BG**

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 05 - 10:59 PM

The approach is wrong - they are NOT redents.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: Alba
Date: 04 May 05 - 11:07 PM

Did you mean redents Guest or Rodents? :>)
Cause they are most definetly REALLY BIG Rodents!
from Gnu's link:
"The beaver Castor canadensis is the largest rodent in North America and the largest rodent in the world except for the capybara of South America"
If you meant redents I don't know what they are. If it was a typing error...I just realised that by asking you what redents are shows a sad lack of knowledge on my part!!..lol please pardon my dumb moment! (been going on for a few years now though...hope it passes soon)
Blessings
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Advice on Rodent control
From: gnu
Date: 05 May 05 - 07:22 AM

Some of the good old boys up country call them "Flatrats", ie, a rat with a flat tail. They can be a real headache for someone who makes their living from forestry, whether it's tree farming or maple slyrup or seedlings. Anything that sneaks into your woodlot at night and kills sixty prime hardwood trees in a week is deemed a rat by some.

Much worse is a "Treerat" or "Pickrat". A porcupine can cause severe damage because they often go undetected until major damage is done. Unlike beavers, they can be anywhere, anytime. The worst of these is one who has lost the ability to climb. It will eat the bark as high as it can, around the entire butt, and move to the next tree. And, contrary to popular belief, they will eat smooth-bark softwood.