Origins: The Orange & The Green

Subject: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: Blackcatter
Date: 04 May 05 - 10:11 AM

Looking around the Mudcat, this song has been discussed plenty of times, but I haven't been able to find any info on it's origins - anyone know who wrote it and when? It's hardly an old song, so it should be known somewhere. Anyone got and old album with the credit on it?

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 May 05 - 10:37 AM

I've always thought this was another that came out of the Liverpool Spinners stable - There were a lot of songs written by them and adapted into the well known form by them !

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: Brakn
Date: 04 May 05 - 11:13 AM

I'm nearly sure that it was written by a Liverpudlian or a Birkenheadcase.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: belfast
Date: 04 May 05 - 11:18 AM

The New City Songbook was a series of small songbooks produced by MacColl and Seeger. Vol.7 (1972) contains this song and credits the lyrics to Paul O'Brien. I have vague memeories of Paul as a guy from Dublin who was a friend of MacColl's. Other people out there may have more info.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: Brakn
Date: 04 May 05 - 11:22 AM

I see it's credited on a couple of sites to an Anthony Murphy. I hope we're talking about the same song.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: belfast
Date: 04 May 05 - 12:15 PM

My apologies. I was talking about a different song, to the tune of "|The Rocks of Bawn". A similar theme but a different approach.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 May 05 - 12:17 PM

I've just checked on one of my Vinyls and the Spinners credit Murphy !

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: MartinRyan
Date: 04 May 05 - 12:17 PM

Several songs, old and new, with "orange and green" in their titles.

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 04 May 05 - 12:33 PM

I see the Irish Rovers credit Anthony Murphy.

Scanning a list of their songs, I see pretty much giving credit where credit is due. Like many groups, they credit themselves for traditional songs but credit the rest correctly, so I am inclined to believe that attribution.

Couldn't find any information on Anthony Murphy, date, ect. though.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: Snuffy
Date: 04 May 05 - 12:46 PM

I was looking at my Grehan Sisters recordings last night, and I'm sure there is a name on the credits for this one. I'll check tonight.

As the Spinners have been mentioned, I assume we are talking about the song to the tune of Rising of the Moon/Wearing of the Green with a chorus that goes:

Oh it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen
My father he was Orange and my mother she was Green

and not one of the other Orange and Green songs

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: GEST
Date: 04 May 05 - 12:47 PM

I have it as written by Anthony Murphy and arranged by The Irish Rovers (The Unicorn, 1967, Decca) at GEST Songs Of Newfoundland And Labrador.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: Brakn
Date: 04 May 05 - 02:47 PM

Previous thread.

Another snippet.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: Brakn
Date: 04 May 05 - 02:56 PM

Second link looks like BNP site. Just thought I mention that fact!

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 04 May 05 - 03:03 PM

A friend, Jim Jarratt, once wrote a song called "Goodbye to the orange and green" about the changing of the livery of buses in Halifax, West Yorkshire. (CLICK HERE for information)
Quack
GtD.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: Jim McLean
Date: 04 May 05 - 05:02 PM

I wrote a song about Prince Charles and the chorus goes 'It is the greatest mix-up that I have ever seen, His father is a German and his mother is a queen'.
It's printed in my songbook published in 1968 so I must have written it around 66 or 67. It's to the tune 'The rising of the moon' so I reckon I must have heard the 'Orange and Green' song around then.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: Snuffy
Date: 04 May 05 - 07:28 PM

According to Mick O'Farrell on this thread the Grehan Sisters version was released in 1968.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: Blackcatter
Date: 04 May 05 - 09:13 PM

Thanks for the help - just to be clear I did mean the:

Oh it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen
My father he was Orange and my mother she was Green

song.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From:
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 02:42 AM

Hi all,
Looking to find song writing credits and permission to record "The Orange and the Green". Does any one know how to contact Anthony Murphy or whomever holds rights to the piece?

Thanks,
Kevin Connors

Subject: RE: DT Attribution & Minor Corrections PermaThread
From: Genie
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 02:06 AM

Correction of lyrics to "The Orange And The Green" in the DT:

The DT has the opening lines as
"Once there was an Irishman, a Protestant was he,
My mother was a Catholic, from Kelsey town came she
..."

It should be "My father was an Englishman,* proud Protestant was he;
My mother was a Catholic ... "

*There are variations in the lyrics to this song, but In the versions I've heard, the father is English. But even if he's Irish, the point of the song is that the Protestant man is the singer/narrator's father, not just any "Irishman" or "Englishman."

Subject: DT Correction: The Orange and the Green (Murphy)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 02:36 AM

Genie, I'm going to move you over here until we have a definitive decision about a completely correct and correctly attributed version of the lyrics. I'll agree that the lyrics in the Digital Tradition are flawed (and obviously unattributed), but your suggestion of "Englishman" just doesn't make sense. If the father were Orange, wouldn't he be an Ulsterman?


Here's the DT Version, with corrections I made by listening to recordings by the Wolfe Tones and Irish Rovers:



THE ORANGE AND THE GREEN
(Anthony Murphy)

Oh, my father was an Ulster man, proud Protestant was he;
My mother was a Catholic and from County Cork was she.
They were married in two churches, and lived happily enough;
Until the day that I was born, and things got rather tough.

Baptized by Father Reilly, I was rushed away by car
To be made a little Orangeman, my father's shining star.
I was christened David Anthony, but still in spite of that,
To my father I was Billy while my mother called me Pat.

CHORUS:
Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen
My father was an Orangeman, my mother she was Green.

Now, with mother every Sunday to Mass I'd proudly stroll,
And after that the Orange lads would try to save my soul.
And both sides tried to claim me but I was smart because
I'd play the flute or play the harp depending where I was.

And when I'd sing those rebel songs, much to my mother's joy,
My father would jump up and say, "Look here, come here me boy!
That's quite enough of that, lad," he'd toss me o'er a coin,
He'd have me sing "The Orange Flute" and "The Heroes of the Boyne."

CHORUS:
Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen,
My father was an Orangeman, my mother she was Green.

One day my ma's relations came 'round to visit me,
Just as my father's kinfolk were sitting down to tea;
We tried to smooth things over; they all began to fight,
And me being strictly neutral, I kicked everyone in sight.

My parents never could agree about my type of school,
My learning was all done at home; that's why I'm such a fool.
They've both passed on, God rest them, but I was left between
That awful color problem of the Orange and the Green

CHORUS:
Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen
My father was an Orangeman, my mother she was Green. (twice)

ALTERNATE CHORUS:
Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen
My father he was Orange, and my mother she was Green.

Transcribed from a Wolfe Tones recording. The Irish Rovers recording is very similar, but has the alternate chorus.
Parody of Wearing Of The Green by Anthony Murphy of Huyton, Liverpool, England, who regularly performed this song live at the Wash House Folk Club in Liverpool ca.1960

@Irish @political
filename[ ORANGREN
TUNE FILE: WEARGREN
CLICK TO PLAY
RB
OCT98

Subject: Add Version: The Orange and The Green
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 02:43 AM

The other credible transcription I've found is the one from GEST Songs Of Newfoundland And Labrador
I'm going to post it below, formatted for the Digital Tradition. I have to say it's not like most recordings I've found. Anybody have the original Anthony Murphy version?
-Joe-

---

THE ORANGE AND THE GREEN
(Anthony Murphy)

Oh, it is the biggest mixup that you have ever seen,
Me father, he was Orange, and me mother, she was Green.

Baptised by Father Riley,
I was rushed away by car;
To be made a little Orange man,
My father's shining star.

I was christened David Anthony,
But still in spite of that;
To my father I was William,
And to mother I was Pat.

Oh, it is the biggest mixup that you have ever seen,
Me father, he was Orange, and me mother, she was Green.

With me mother every Sunday,
To Mass I'd proudly stroll;
Then after that the Orange Lodge,
Would try to save my soul.

Both sides tried to claim me,
But I was smart because
I'd play the flute or play the harp,
Depends on where I was.

Oh, it is the biggest mixup that you have ever seen,
Me father, he was Orange, and me mother, she was Green.

One day me mom's relations,
Came 'round to visit me;
Just as me father's kinfolk,
Were all sittin' down to tea.

We tried to smooth things over,
But they all began to fight;
And me being strictly neutral,
I bashed everyone in sight.

Oh, it is the biggest mixup that you have ever seen,
Me father, he was Orange, and me mother, she was Green.

Now, me parents never could agree,
About me type of school;
Me learning was all done at home,
That's why I'm such a fool.

They both passed on, God rest them,
But they left me caught between;
That awful color problem,
Of the Orange and the Green.

Oh, it is the biggest mixup that you have ever seen,
Me father, he was Orange, and me mother, she was Green.

Yes, it is the biggest mixup that you have ever seen,
Me father, he was Orange, and me mother, she was Green.

####.... Parody of Wearing Of The Green by Anthony Murphy of Huyton, Liverpool, England, who regularly performed this song live at the Wash House Folk Club in Liverpool ca.1960 ....####

This variant was arranged by The Killicks of Grand Falls-Windsor, NL.

A variant was arranged and recorded by The Irish Rovers (The Unicorn, 1967, Decca LP trk#A.03) which began with two additonal verses as follows:

Oh, my father was an Ulster man,
Proud Protestant was he;
My mother was a Catholic girl,
From County Cork was she.

They were married in two churches,
Lived happily enough;
Until the day that I was born,
And things got rather tough.

@Irish @political
filename[ ORANGREN
TUNE FILE: WEARGREN
CLICK TO PLAY
RB
OCT98

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: Genie
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 08:38 PM

Thanks, Joe.

Actually, "Ulsterman" is the lyric that I originally learned.   "Englishman" was just a fleeting brain fart.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 08:41 PM

Ah, brain farts. I get those a lot lately...

But still, can anybody come up with the original Anthony Murphy lyrics?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: goatfell
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 11:01 AM

I didn't know that brains could fart and that farts could get drunk

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 09:11 PM

Hi, Goatfell -
You'll learn lots of things if you stick around. But does anyone have further comment about this version, and whether it's definitive enough to be submitted as a correction to the Digital Tradition?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 05:55 AM

I believe it's the Orange LODGE, not the Orange LADS that try to save the singer's soul.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Orange & The Green
From: GUEST,DWR
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 09:38 PM

The second one put up by Joe does say LODGE, and that is what I hear, both by The Grehan Sisters and The Irish Rovers.