BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 May 05 - 12:29 PM

One "old-wives tale" with unknown validity: if you do need to move away from a bear, and when there's a choice, move downhill. Bears supposedly have much stronger hind legs than front ones, and it's claimed they can't run downhill as fast as they can going up. You can probably run downhill faster than you can run up. (Even with the purported advantage, they can probably outrun you.)

I'm not sure I'd want to go challenge a bear to a footrace to see if it's true; but if you're gonna be discussing bears with people who might know, you might ask about this theory.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 09 May 05 - 12:31 PM

some good advice here,
dont play dead with black bears,
and forget about a compost bin if there are black bears in your area.
(my neighbour found a bear sleeping in his compost pile, I guess it was warm)

Ive come across a number of bears, over many years of hiking, even one
maybe 8 feet away on the other side of the road, in general theyve never been a problem, if you ignore them and give them space.

Ironically though, even though grizzlies are the ones more likely to attack, the worst recorded bear attack in North America was in 1980 Ontario, when a black bear killed 5 teenage campers.

one final word of advice from conservation officers, is if it looks like the bear is following you and is intent on attacking, you should not try to ignore it, or play dead. You should do whatever you can to get away or defend yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 May 05 - 12:34 PM

gee bobert, don't get too cozy with your cousins there. We'd hate to see abunch of bobert look alikes with eyes wide apart.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 May 05 - 01:37 PM

Bobert,

You'll still be able to enjoy the wildlife in your yard if you plant attractive flowers (for hummingbirds and butterflies) and things with seeds (for the other birds) but think twice about planting any berries. Bears love them.

I worked for the Forest Service for a number of years and regularly met bears in the woods. If it was blueberry season they were intent on scraping as many berries off of the branches as possible and filling up on them. I don't recall ever stopping working when a bear was around, but we always gave them a wide berth.

I also worked for the National Park Service, and while I saw many bears over the years, the worst problem was in the Smokeys where the bears actually panhandle along the roadways, and where idiotic visitors get out of their cars and feed them. They tell their children to walk over and feed a bear so they can take a photo. They reach out of their wide-open car windows with food offerings. Real Darwin Award material. So when park rangers drive up with the green cars and the stetson hats, the bears recognize them and run off. And more than once I've been cursed by these stupid park visitors for scaring off the bears.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 09 May 05 - 02:44 PM

I think this may be an urban legend, but here goes: Fellow told me once that there was a sign at Yellowstone that read,

"Bears 9, People 0"; do NOT feed the bears.

I live right next to the Rockies in Alberta. Every year we watch idiots approaching elk, sheep and yes, bears to get better camera angle, etc. Some folks just have NO idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 09 May 05 - 02:56 PM

PS I love wildlife. Period. But that love is predicated on the understanding that they have a territory and when I enter that territory, I'd best keep my wits about me. I have hunted for food--I gave up hunting for 'pleasure' in my teens. It was after I killed a family of raccoons at the request of a farmer. I realized I liked what I had done, and I never wanted to experience that feeling again.

I have never found bears to be a problem. As so many have pointed out, don't surprise them, don't feed them (in either verb transitivity), and do not get between a sow and her cubs. Incidentally, the two bears I educated over the years were blacks. They ran when they heard the shot.

I have seen bears do some remarkable things, and they are extremely powerful, fast creatures. A swipe from a grizzly will easily take a human's head off. No person is a match for a bear. Period. Ya can't outrun them (although IF you have no choice, run downhill). The front legs are shorter than the rear, and it's slower going downhill for the bear. However, that means that instead of catching you in thirty seconds it will catch you in forty-five. If by chance you have to run from a bear, take off your shirt and throw it behind you. Might buy you a little time.

Metchosin, I have never ridden a horse in my life. I know you are a horsewoman, and I envy that. After the hip replacement, I guess I won't have the chance. I have friends who go on trail rides, etc, and they rave about it. Keep safe and keep well.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 May 05 - 02:57 PM

I have lived and worked alongside a berry patch while bears were busily harvesting the fruit in the middle of the patch. And I have a friend who goes to a mountainside to pick blueberries- she leaves the blueberries alongside her own property for the bears.

(The best berry in southest Alaska is the blueberry. You find them everywhere, and some of the best places are off mountain roads. There are five or six different kinds and the bushes can grow to be six feet tall. Depending on the year, they tend to be either plump and large as a thumbnail or lttle ones the size of your pinky nail, which are the sweetest berries imaginable.)

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Metchosin
Date: 09 May 05 - 03:06 PM

Perhaps Parks should get access as an education tool to some of the clips from America's Funniest Home Videos, so the general public can watch someone being gored stomped and kicked by an elk. There's nothing funny about it.

Although at times it's hard to avoid some wildlife. A number of years ago, when our kids were small we were in Waterton and watched a bighorn sheep step on an automatic door opener and walk into a strip mall.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 May 05 - 03:09 PM

Metchosin, several years back a young bear activated the electronic eye at the emergency entrance at our local hospital and entered. The end of the story is not a happy one, though. The police shot and killed the bear.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 09 May 05 - 03:20 PM

I watched a bull moose in Quebec kick the crap out of a car one day. The motorist insisted on honking his horn to get the bull off the road. The bull was in rut, and I guess he took offense at the noise. Some folks just have to learn the hard way I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 May 05 - 03:24 PM

Don't screw around with bears. Don't waltz with them (unless you're Uncle Walter), don't try to race them, don't talk to them.

Several bear study projects use "bird bombs" in a shotgun to deter bears. These are effectively cherry bombs that are fired in 12 gauge shotgun; they were designed to scare flocks of birds out of orchards. I've also heard of flare guns being used, but I'd hate to burn down the forest to scare the bear off.

I don't fool with ANY wild animal, from pikas and ground squirrels to mountain lions and grizzly bears. If you really don't believe that they're wild critters, read "How To Die In The Outdoors" and/or "Death In Yellowstone" and/or the collection of "Bear Tales" from Alaska.

The critters in the woods aren't tame, and your body may not be returned to your next of kin.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 09 May 05 - 03:31 PM

BURP.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 May 05 - 03:40 PM

Q: Why do ducks have flat feet?





A: To stomp out forest fires.





Q: Why do bears have flat feet?














A: To stomp out burning ducks.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 May 05 - 03:41 PM

hahhaha burp indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 May 05 - 03:50 PM

Bear damage.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 09 May 05 - 04:41 PM

I do carry bear spray and bear bangers when out hiking out here in bc,
been hiking for years and have never had to use either.
But supposedly the sound of the bear bangers will scare them off.
Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 May 05 - 05:53 PM

So, this preacher was walking through the woods when suddenly he was confronted by a HUGE black bear -- an angry black bear.

Having no recourse, the preacher dropped to his knees, closed his eyes, and began to pray: "Lord, if it be your will, make this bear a Christian bear."

He opened his eyes to see the bear was also kneeling in prayer, and praying, "Father, we thank thee for this food...."

------------

Bobert, living with bears is no problem. Just go outside with folks who can run slower than you.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 09 May 05 - 07:08 PM

Living with the black bear is no problem. You just make them pratice outside.....

















For the confused, "The Black bear" is a very common pipe march. If you've heard pipes and drums, you'll have heard it. Bagpipes inside are only slightly prefrable to a bear in the garden....


Bunnhabhain

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 May 05 - 07:27 PM

For those who want to know the difference:

Black bear.

Grizzly bear. (a/k/a "Griz" "Grizz" "Brown Bear" "Kodiak Bear" and "Holy Shi...!")

NEITHER are fuzzy little cutie-poos who act like Winnie-the-Pooh. A Brown Bear (that is, a grizzly which has grown fat, huge, and sassy on the rich salmon of Alaska) can, quite literally, rip the door off a car or truck.

Something to remember: black bears climb trees very well, grizzlies do not.

We haven't even mentioned the Polar Bear....

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 May 05 - 08:51 PM

Once in a great while, a male black bear here or there has been known to behave in a completely different way than the usual fearful black bear-- and turn predator. They are rogues not because they have been fed but because somehow, nature has gone wrong and made them into hunters.

It's VERY rare, but when it happens, it's a sneak attack from behind after stalking the prey-- usually small adults or children. Bobert, you and P-Vine both are small enough. The prey is dragged off the path and fully or partially consumed-- sometimes up in a tree. Fatally. It isn't a mauling, like a defensive bear surprised in an encounter-- it's purposeful hunting. Pairs of humans attacked have usually both died, altho I think I heard of one case where the woman was taken and the man survived.

So...... if you feel like you are being watched, maybe you are. Google around and you will find the info and counter-measures.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Bobert
Date: 09 May 05 - 09:02 PM

Danged...

The P-Vine and I just bought a couple blueberry bushes to take down there???

Bad idea...

But, whew, I might have to ask Joe 'er Max to kill off this thread fir fear that the P-Vine might run across it inadvertnatly...

Hey, I gonna get along fine wid them bears but, ahhhh, ain't too happy about not havin' no bird feeders since I loves the birds... I'll have to work out somethin' here.... Gonna have my birds....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 May 05 - 09:59 PM

WYZI, are you trying to scare the man?

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Metchosin
Date: 09 May 05 - 10:02 PM

Here Bobert, this will tell you more about black bears in your state than you would ever care to know. According to the link there have only been 45 fatalities in North America as a result of black bear atttacks since 1900 and no human fatality has ever been documented in Virginia. I think plowing into one with your car or the bees in your garden might be more of a concern.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 May 05 - 10:26 PM

Bobert, just put in plants that attract birds, rather than bird feeders themselves. Heck, you can probably even put in some grain somewhere, and a birdbath or fountain, and if you do plant the berries, put them at the bottom of the yard out of the way. I find water is almost as good an attractor as food for many types of birds.

You'll do fine. This isn't Hitchcock's The Bears. It's just a few common sense precautions to take. If some of us can keep right on with what we're doing with bears around, so can you.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Azizi
Date: 09 May 05 - 10:29 PM

Given the statistic that Metchosin linked to-that no human fatality caused by a bear was ever documented in Virginia since 1900- Bobert should worry about the bees and the cars rather than the bears.

Unfortunately there HAVE been people in Virgina who have died from allergic reactions to bee stings and motor vehicle accidents.

So Bobert, I guess that means that you can't have a car in Virginia and you can't grow any flowers either.

Or Bobert, you and P-Vine can forget about worrying and to the best of your ability, live life to the fullest while you continue to strive to make the world a better place for all.

Please don't let fear cloud the excitement and joy of your new move.

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 10 May 05 - 12:51 AM

There was a movie out years back entitled "Grizzly". It does for the forest what "Jaws" did for the ocean. Just in case you are bored one of these days and want a little somethin' to--ah, forget it. Don't watch the movie. Bad idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 10 May 05 - 01:16 AM

Neat site with info re Brown Bear (of which the grizzly is one).

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: gnu
Date: 10 May 05 - 07:24 AM

Black Bear at Environment Canada "Hinterland - Who's Who"

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Bobert
Date: 10 May 05 - 08:03 AM

Thanks, brucie, I allready ordered "Grizzly" off Amazon to show the P-Vine so she could get to know more about bears... Gotta get up earlier if ya think that yer gonna out-think this ol' hillbilly...

Actually, contrary to popular opionion, Iz got a ton of common sense so we'll be just fine wid them bears... Deer are more of a threat since they eat azalea, rhodo, flox and just about anything else you grom that you want to look at as opposed to bein' eat up.... And we got about 250 pots of dug up stuff down (up) there allready and other than a curious bear knockin' over one pot nuthin' been eaten... 'Cours we got "Liquid Fence" sprayed on everything, too...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 May 05 - 08:26 AM

You can also cover stuff with with nylon netting. That'll (usually) keep deer and birds away, if you stake is a little bit above the stuff you want to protect. (It won't stop bears.)

It also won't stop skunks, foxes, or coyotes -- all of which live in Virginia (and all of which can carry rabies). But you don't let them worry you, do you?

Just go out and enjoy your new place, you imperialistic oppressor of the workers you. If a bear wanders by during the decadent celebrations you'll undoubtedly have to celebrate your ascendancy over the ragged masses huddled in their pitiable shacks, give 'em a beer.

Seriously, bears do not want to get involved with you.

(I was going to say, "Remember Elijah" but I won't.)

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: LilyFestre
Date: 10 May 05 - 08:46 AM

Old home remedy to keep the deer out of your garden....and it works!

Get yourself some netting (either from an onion bag or you can buy it at the fabric store) and fill it with soap shavings (use a kitchen grater) and hang it all around your garden or in front of your flowers. It's not the prettiest thing, but it does work (many home centers sell this under different names...same thing, just costs more).

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 10 May 05 - 09:55 AM

"Deer are more of a threat since they eat azalea, rhodo, flox and just about anything else you grom that you want to look at"

Thing is, Bobert, people eat deer. It's goooooooooooood.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,KT
Date: 11 May 05 - 02:55 AM

Bobert, some friends were here for music tonight. They left (not quietly) about 15 minutes ago. One of them lives six houses up the street. She just called me to say she saw a bear on the way home. It was about 30 feet away. Just looked at her and then crossed the street. Looked like a youngun' she said. Mama was likely lingering in the shadows.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: LilyFestre
Date: 11 May 05 - 07:31 AM

Brucie is right....venison...YUM!!!!!!!!!

Hey Bobert....no worries about all the snakes ya'll get in that part of the country?

My husband's grandmother lives in that direction and has told us numerous stories about finding snakes in the rafters of her basement....that would bother me far more than a bear in the garden!!!!!!


Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Bobert
Date: 11 May 05 - 07:42 AM

Snakes don't bother me one bit.... Might of fact I like 'um.... But now deer is another story...

Yeah we'z used soap shavings, hair, coyote urine, BobX, DeerOff and even Malorganite but the only thing we've found that works is "Liguid Fence".... Been usin' it fir 3 years now and the deer absolutlet won't eat nuthin' that's been sprayed wid it...

As fir eating them critters, I made a deal wid the four-legged kingdom about 35 years ago. If they don't chew on me I won't chew on them and guess what. It's held up quite nicely, though there was this one particular dog that almost made it into the chili...

But if I ever wanta eat a deefr, though unlikely, there ain't no hunt to them... Heck, they wander in my back yard every danged day...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: LilyFestre
Date: 11 May 05 - 09:22 AM

If ya made a deal with the four legged kingdom, I'm wonderin' if ya made a deal with the two legged kingdom as well....as I sit and look out the winda at all my beautiful 2-legged chickens.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 11 May 05 - 09:25 AM

Bobert, my favorite "bear story" comes from the Lewis & Clark journal of that little jaunt they took up the Mizoo and to points west. These were easterners, a lot of them, from the more settled side of the Mississippi. They may have had experience in the more "rural", remote areas of their parts of this country. We're talkin' pre-1810. They had hunted bear (black) for years, to eat as well as to protect themselves and their communities. They were armed with state-of-the-art firepower, and when they reached Grizzly country and began running into those critters, they were extremely interested in the beasts. One of the recorders of the trip noted the initial fascination, but also -- after discovering how little effect their magnificent ballistics had on the bears -- how quickly their curiousity was satisfied!!!
Good health to you and yours, and keep us up to date with sightings, and interesting stuff you learn about living in that country.   Tw

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 May 05 - 09:25 AM

Dang, Bobert, them venison chops and backstraps are just wanderin' onto your land, provided like the manna in the desert. Yum! A big ol' plate of venison chili, or homemade venison sausage, or some backstrap...why, I get hungry just thinkin' about it all. And poor ol' me sittin' here in Idaho with nothin' in the freezer 'cept a little elk, some venison summer sausage, some buffalo, beef, pork, salmon, Vermont cob-smoked ham, veal.... And veggies, too, of course.

Lissen -- if the deer DO get to be too much, you can always shoot 'em and give the meat to a group like Hunters For The Hungry. They'll see that it goes to homeless shelters or SOME and places like that. Peek here to see what I'm talkin' about.

(We eat deer. We die and return our bodies to the Earth. Our bodies support grass. Deer eat the grass. The circle is unbroken.)

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: LilyFestre
Date: 11 May 05 - 09:34 AM

Rapaire,

    What a great thought! We have Hunters For the Hungry around here too...helps out lots of local folks. As a child in a family of 7, if we didn't have venison, we would have been living on beans. Five out of 7 hunted and that usually meant 5 deer in the freezer.

Glad you mentioned that....excellent program!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 05 - 10:24 AM

"The circle is unbroken."

May the circle be unbroken,
By and by Lord by and by . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 11 May 05 - 10:25 AM

Crap. That were I.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Metchosin
Date: 11 May 05 - 11:25 AM

With all the bear talk, I forgot to mention we had a visit from a cougar last Friday. Just passing through again....I hope....the deer that was looking at me up through the kitchen window this morning, while he ate the leaves off my wee quince, didn't seem to have a worry in the world, so I assume the big cat is elesewhere for the time being.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 11 May 05 - 11:30 AM

I've heard, but can't confirm, that lion...manure...and the...manure...from similar big cats will keep deer away from your property. The National Zoo ain't that far away, Bobert, and the Smithsonian runs some sort of animal park in Virginia. Dang, boy, but you could post signs that say, "No Trespassing -- Beware Of Lion Shit."

It'll git ya talked about, if nothin' else.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 11 May 05 - 12:34 PM

"Lions, tigers, and bears..Oh my!"

Last year two deers were in my yard for most of the day.
I should mention that I live in a residential community of a large urban city [Pittsburgh, PA} and although there is a wooden cementary about 4 blocks away, I've lived here for 28 years, and that was the first time I had ever seen any deer around here.

Sorry, nature lovers, but though the deer were beautiful and it was an experience and all that, I hope I don't see ever see any more deer that up close and personal.

And as for eating deer meat-thanks but I'll pass.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 11 May 05 - 12:41 PM

It's better than beef.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 11 May 05 - 12:54 PM

[Not that any of this has anything to do with livin with black bears, but since you mentioned it Brucie]

I haven't eaten beef or pork for years and never ate deer or lamb or well you get the picture...

Plus I don't eat sea food, and I feel [mentally] bad when I eat poultry.

My spirit says 'vegetarian' but sometimes my flesh is weak.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 11 May 05 - 01:06 PM

Venison...mmm...and all i have is a pot noodle...

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 11 May 05 - 01:12 PM

Yeah. I seldom eat meat anymore, anyway. I would guess my meat intake is about two pounds per month.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 11 May 05 - 02:30 PM

"Livin' with Black Bears Question...."

Livin' with the bears is much harder.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: LilyFestre
Date: 11 May 05 - 02:35 PM

Hey Bobert...

About the cougar...they are seriously nothing to mess with. Please talk to your neighbors and brush up on the habits of the ones in your area. If you are out in the sticks, or even if you're not, I'd suggest subscribing to Countryside Magazine. It's full of information about homesteading and dealing with the animal aspect of living in the sticks. I read a story not long ago about a woman being mauled to death on her farm by a cougar. They aren't like black bears, they are highly territorial and predatory animals (okay..so are bears but black bears aren't nearly as dangerous as cougars). Don't mess with that...call your local farm co-op or game warden and see what they suggest.

Michelle