BS: Man U and the state of football

Subject: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: Stu
Date: 13 May 05 - 05:39 AM

Now that the biggest club in the world has finally been purchased by a business tycoon who sees it as a commercial proposition not a football club, what does this mean for the game now?

The widening gap between rich and poor clubs now seems to grow more, leaving a two-teir premiership, which in my opinion is killing the game at all levels. The commercial leverage of clubs like United and Chelsea is causing problems for smaller clubs who struggle to keep up with the increasing demands of players wages and rising costs.

Discuss.

stigWeard
(up the Villa!)

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: mooman
Date: 13 May 05 - 05:45 AM

I do not care for MU but quite agree with you stigWeard. The overwhelming pursuit of huge amounts money in sport has mitigated against proper competition and is destroying some smaller clubs.

Peace

moo (lifelong QPR supporter: yes I'm the one!)

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 13 May 05 - 05:48 AM

They are all ridiculously overpayed, mincing nancy boys! I couldn't care less about sodding football.
       Rugby Union, the true path!

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 May 05 - 05:59 AM

It's been that way for years. I don't like it but it isn't going to change.

I suppose the biggest change I would like to see is in the Champions league. I'd like that as a super league that clubs were promoted from our domestic leagues to.

Another thought. Given the situation now, perhaps a few more wealthy businessmen would be a good plan. Having Chelsea with money did at least make the premiership a bit more interesting this year - 3 teams with a chance was better than 2.

Anyway and to drift, our (Norwich) biggest game of the season is on Saturday. Win it and we have achieved our main hope - just one of surviving a year in the premiership (which BTW I think is 3 tier now, not 2).

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 05 - 06:32 AM

I agree. The game is now running out of control and has lost touch with its roots. The fans who have supported it for a lifetime will drift off and the business model will be to attract the young who have known nothing better. With TV etc it will undoubtedly succeed but what will be called the "product" will not be football as we know it and more than half the clubs in existence now will have gone in a very short time. Clubs in the lower two thirds of the premiership are just there as cannon fodder for the top four ar five and I can't see fans paying for that for much longer. The level playing field has never been more needed but money talks, shouts and finally deafens. It's lasted over a century as the people's game. may it rest in peace!

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: gnu
Date: 13 May 05 - 06:33 AM

It's happening all over the globe. "Premiership" hockey took the ultimate crap this year.

On the other hand, where can I watch the likes of Man U and Chelsea but in a league that spends money like water when it comes to putting together the best team possible?

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: Noreen
Date: 13 May 05 - 06:41 AM

BBC News report: Glazer set to complete Man U coup

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 13 May 05 - 07:36 AM

It'll all end in tears.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 13 May 05 - 10:42 AM

As someone totally uninterested in football I can't see what the problem is. Roman Abramovich buys Chelsea and everybody's (Chelsea fans in particular) over the moon. Now you have another mega rich bloke buying Manchester United and everyone's up in arms. It is a very strange set of affairs.You don't get this mallarkey in Tennis and they are a lot easier on the eye than the overpaid joggers at most Clubs these days (yes I mean the ladies tennis -no offence to other pursuasions).

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: Stu
Date: 13 May 05 - 11:17 AM

Look what has happened to Formula 1. An exciting, very competive sport ruined by the desire of businessmen (and one in particular) to retain as much control and make as much money has reduced it to a processional farce (btw, did anyone see ITV's coverage in the race at Monza when, in the final few laps when an actual race was happening, they cut away for an ad break - un-soddin'-beliveable).

I was inevitable really I suppose. Never mind - there is always the snooker.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 13 May 05 - 11:55 AM

It might well bode poorly for Manchester United -- the fate of the club is now firmly tied to economics and if erasure is required in support of another part of the empire, the football club will be toast. Still, Manchester United invented this system, so one can't help but chuckle.

As for it pervading the game at all levels, get a grip. I watch at least three non-league games per week during the season and it's perfectly safe. And while we are glued to the spectacle of the Prima Donna that is the Premiership, a real tragedy has occurred at the foot of the table: Kidderminster have been turfed from the League. Yes, their football was shite, but the pies were second to none.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: Torctgyd
Date: 13 May 05 - 12:01 PM

It's about time clubs were run as the businesses that they are!

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 May 05 - 01:30 PM

look at this way - if ticket prices put off punters and television shots of the action show big gaps on the terraces and the players feel less of occasion then the fickle hoards around the world will get the message.

But like the question about which banjo (4 or 5 string) hits the shore first after a cliff-top lob.

WHO CARES?

Where did the word sport go? I saw it once many years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 May 05 - 04:06 PM

It's called "free enterprise" and a lot of people see it as the answer to everything. Football clubs up for sale. The media up for sale. Political parties up for sale. Countries up for sale.

The only thing is to hope that at some point enough people are going to see what is happening and stop it.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: Boab
Date: 14 May 05 - 02:23 AM

---and I'm rooting for Norwich too Jon---my grandson-in-law plays for the Canaries. [No names, no pack drill----!]

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: DMcG
Date: 14 May 05 - 02:54 AM

I'm a little surprised no one in the media has picked up the link to AFC Wimbledon.


Broadly, what happened there was that 'Wimbledon FC' changed hands at the board level, and the owners then decided to move it to Milton Keynes, some 2 to 3 hours journey away from its supporters. The fans fought this for years and the FA kept refusing to authorise the move but eventually the FA agreed and Wimbledon FC was moved. Almost all the fans refused to move with the club and instead set up a new club 'AFC Wimbedon' in Wimbledon. Necessarily, that meant they were starting in one of the lowest leagues, well below the level where it even gets reported; they were starting with no players at all and no prospect of buying any player from the bigger leagues, not even the fourth division ... in short, they started from absolute scratch.

And the fans backed them in huge numbers, and still do. For these fans what mattered was that is was their club, not the famous names, or the financial turnover, or the ground.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 14 May 05 - 03:22 AM

I can't see Man U fans doing that Dave. I don't like the big money but I must admit some of my feelings are "it couldn't have happened to a more deserving club". They have enjoyed the big money and the success that goes with it for a long time and I see this take over bid as a product of this. I said when Ferguson was knighted, it should have been for disservices to football because of the already wide gap between rich and poor clubs. They are only reaping what they sowed.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 14 May 05 - 03:23 AM

Wow Boab a player in the family!

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: DMcG
Date: 14 May 05 - 03:30 AM

Agreed, Jon. At the moment, anyway, I don't see that there is really very much happening that will affect fans directly, except a probable raising of price of the tickets. [Of course, as you'll remember I am not actually interested in football, so what would I know? :-) ]. That being so, I don't see any reason for the fans to do anything as dramatic as AFC. However, the wider point is that the relationship between fans and clubs is not a simple consumer-provider one like most other businesses, and a board that thinks it can do anything it believes to be best business practice can come seriously unstuck.

Here the Wikipedia entry on the Milton Keynes Dons FC (previously Wimbledon FC) and AFC Wimbledon.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 May 05 - 04:03 PM

"Shareholders United"

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: The Walrus
Date: 15 May 05 - 06:32 AM

If the fans are so upset about Man U(re) plc (face it, it hasn't been a 'club' since they floated it on the stock market), now is the time for a boycot - refuse to renew the overly expensive season tickets, don't touch the mechandise, unsubscribe from the TV/Radio station - in short, hit the company where it hurts - in the balance sheet.

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: C-flat
Date: 15 May 05 - 10:53 AM

I think the fear-factor stems from the fact that no one can quite see how the Glazer family are going to turn a profit, which, after all, is their only interest in Mancester united.
To service the debts incurred in buying the club Manchester United would need to be TWICE as profitable as it currently is and it is already the most successfully merchandised club in football!
Whatever anyone thinks of Abramovitch buying Chelsea, he did clear off all the clubs debt and invested millions of his own in the squad.
There are a handful of owners who are genuine in their love of football and their desire to improve their clubs (Steve Gibson at Middlesbrough is one example)but while I don't see Glazer fitting that profile I can't see how this purchase is "good business" and, unless Glazer knows something that no one else does, it could prove costly for the legions of United supporters.
I can't subscribe to the "it couldn't have happened to a more deserving club" point of view, despite being a keen supporter of Middlesbrough, because Manchester United have been consistantly entertaining and helped in attracting some of the best talent in the world to the Premiership.
Leeds United lost everything because of their spiralling debts and it would a great shame to see Man. U. go the same way but as it stands, Manchester United will owe TEN TIMES the figure that ruined the, once great, Leeds side and were it not for the ridiculous amount of money that BSkyB are prepared to pay for the television rights, there aren't many Premiership clubs that could survive.

C-flat. (buying shares in Accrington Stanley)

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 May 05 - 02:31 PM

What I hope will happen will be that the kind of fans all over the place, overseas and all, who don't actually go to football matches, but buy stuff because it's got an MU badge on or whatever will be turned off and put their money somewhere else. If brand name football loses its ability to make money from things that have nothing to do with football, that will really hurt the Glazers of this world.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: C-flat
Date: 15 May 05 - 03:00 PM

I agree that some of the "business" needs taking out of football when the head man at Real Madrid admits that David Beckham did not cost his club a penny due to the massive shirt sales he generates. It would pay the club to buy him and sit him on the bench all season!
Maybe Manchester United will be looking at signing pop-stars rather than footballers purely for their commercial rights!

C-flat.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: Folkiedave
Date: 15 May 05 - 03:54 PM

As a Sheffield United supporter I feel really sad about Manchester United.

What I cannot understand is why no-one seems to have had a go at the Irish guys who - it is estmated made £80 million from their shares by selling them to Glazer and thus facilitating the takeover.

The Premier League is a way of concentrating wealth into fewer hands. Manchester United are a public company.

Live with it.

Dave Eyre

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 May 05 - 07:11 PM

Or better still, live without it.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 May 05 - 05:02 AM

helped in attracting some of the best talent in the world to the Premiership

Yes C-flat but I would argue money has attracted these people. They wouldn't have come just for love. Very few clubs have been done a favour by it.

One thing in one of yesterday's papers. Norwich's (who got stuffed 6-0 and were relegated yesteraday) entire squad cost 1/4 of the money Manchester United paid just for Wayne Rooney. That is the sort of imbalance that exists...

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: GUEST,Chris b (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 16 May 05 - 08:21 AM

When the next American recession hits, speculators like Glazer will lose their shirts and sell whatever they can to stave off bankruptcy. Auf Wiedersehn, red scum....

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: GUEST
Date: 16 May 05 - 08:23 AM

If you're going to blame the 2 Irishmen, then you have to blame Alex Ferguson for getting into bed with them.

Personally I blame the European Union - there's no player loyalty anymore, they're all just mercenaries.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: GUEST
Date: 17 May 05 - 04:32 AM

Whats the fuss?

United have gone back to their roots; they used to be owned by some rich bastard and now they are again. It was the period in between that was the aberation, not now.

In the period between when ownership was actually up for sale to anyone all of those fans bleating now could have bought shares in the club and it would not have been available for our two Irish magnates to sell them on. Did they?

United have always been at the forefront of moves to concentate the money in the game into the pockets of the big clubs; the Premier league, The European and superleague talks, the bastardisation of the Champions cup to ensure that in years like this when they only finish third they still get the big Euro pay out. The whole marketing base of the club has been to establish Man U as a ubiquitous brand at the xpense of local loyalties. Who can have any sympathy when the fans who bought into that bleat about loalty now?

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 May 05 - 07:29 AM

Who cares, it's a tarts game, rugby is a mans game, mostly played for the love of it not the money.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: GUEST
Date: 17 May 05 - 09:01 AM

Sorry, , just noticeed I was cookieless on the post before eric the red's.

And I always thought the red part was because he was a man u fan

Robbie

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 May 05 - 04:48 AM

No Robbie, it's a political statement.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 05 - 06:40 AM

Tell that to a player like Roy Keane. Reminds me of the game against Chelsea last week. When the blonde giant came on late in the game and got physical, Rooney laid him out. I couldn't believe he didn't get carded. He went straight at him and nailed him with both elbows. I had it on tape and watched it four times... not for the charge and decking, but to watch Roy give Wayne the big hand slap and spit after the hit. Fuckin Irish, eh!

And that strike by Rooney directly to the nuts of (name escapes me? same fellow?) was priceless. When the commentator said some slow motion replays should not be shown, I disagreed. You just can't see the eyeballs roll back in the head like that at regular speed. Better than that beer commercial about "common body language".

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: GUEST,gnu
Date: 18 May 05 - 06:53 AM

GUEST @ 0640 was me.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: gnu
Date: 21 May 05 - 04:09 PM

So... is a shootout the way to decide a game? I vote no after what I saw today.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 21 May 05 - 04:19 PM

Which brings us back to seal bashing and fox hunting.................................................

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: gnu
Date: 21 May 05 - 04:23 PM

I am for seal hunting with clubs and for fox hunting with rifles.

Now, back to the question.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: gnu
Date: 25 May 05 - 11:49 AM

I guess I was told. You are correct, H-P Boy (BTW, what the heck does your name "mean"?), and I bow to your wisdom. Okaaaaay then... how many of you Brits are excited about the UEFA final today? Does it mean anything to you? Nationally?

I still can't sort out all the leagues and how they work or what their importance is. But, I will.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: Torctgyd
Date: 25 May 05 - 01:05 PM

I'm sure the Glazer's didn't go into that much debt to loose money so they (and their creditors) must reckon they can make a go of it.



Unless of course they are criminals out to make tons of cash from fraud????? But ManU shareholders wouldn't sell to dodgy geezers just to make a nice profit now would they??

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 May 05 - 01:14 PM

D McG, Do AFC Wimbledon still play at Plough Lane?, that old ground still holds many happy memories for me.
In 1963 Wimbledon had the best amateur league team in England, I seen them beating Sutton United at Wembley in the Amateur Cup Final that year, their big centre forward from Belfast, Eddie Reynolds, headed all four goals in a 4-2 win, this feat has never been equalled,that was some team.

Subject: RE: BS: Man U and the state of football
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 May 05 - 01:22 PM

gnu, It's a big competition and I'd like to see Liverpool win but I can't say it's ever meant anything to me nationaly.

I can't say I've followed it much over the years either. On the other hand, when Norwich were in it on 1993, it really was something special to us - Norwich up there playing the best in Europe! Beating Bayern Munich 2-1 in the competion is regarded by many as Norwich's finest moment.