BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 05 - 03:56 PM

Ignore Ted he can't help himself chipping in on these conversations. He wasn't very visible on the thread asking for reasons for the Brits to stay in NI. ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Jimmy C
Date: 20 May 05 - 03:59 PM

Flamenco Te - you do not know what you are talking about.

Others that have a much longer history of lying therough their teeth include
- The British Government
- The Northern Ireland Government
- The British Army
- The Police Services of Northern Ireland - formerly known as the   Royal Ulster Constabulary

Almost every loyalist politician that ever servced as Prime Minister (with the ecxception of Terence O'Neill)

The I.R.A. are still the ones who have adhered to teh cease-fire. If you want to give your 5 cents worth please get a little informed. There have been loyalists murders, kidnappings, drug dealing and violence almost on a daily basis and not one word prineted in many of the inetrnational newspapers. Just last week a murder was committed by loyalists outside the Chimney Corner Club, due to a drug deal gone bad - where is the outcry.

If this had been tagged on rebublicas it would hav ebeen all over the T.V, Newspapers, Radio for weeks on end.

There are many way to fight, some use a gun, some use a pen and at present the loyalists have the greatest number of pens !!!!!

I think in all honesty it is the rebublicans who have more reason to hold on to their weapons.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Big Mick
Date: 20 May 05 - 04:04 PM

And they say Irish Americans don't know what they are talking about. Go back to sleep, Ted.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: The Curator
Date: 20 May 05 - 04:06 PM

A point to remember is it was loyalists that shot dead the first RUC officer in the conflict. And it was loyalists that killed the last one with a pipe bomb. These are the same people Paisley, Robinson and McCrea stand shoulder to shoulder with.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: rumanci
Date: 20 May 05 - 06:48 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Peace
Date: 20 May 05 - 06:50 PM

It's difficult to keep yer hands clean when you get blood all over them, innit?

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 20 May 05 - 09:36 PM

Murder and revenge are the long standing problems. Indoctrinating successive generations to hate each other only procreates violence and destruction. Weapons are not really the problem, it is the will not to use them first that is lacking. Courage in surrendering weapons shows good faith and willingness to try peacefull coexistance.
Without that show of commitment only the extremists rule. So far we see some IRA willingness to do this, but a one sided show will not satisfy anyone. Weapons can be replaced, so can the will to use them Loyalists must disarm too to show commitment to this peace initiative or it will surely fail....

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 21 May 05 - 04:11 AM

"Quemadmoeum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est." ("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands.") -- Lucius Annaeus Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC-65 AD).

Also the origin of the term "Guns don't kill people, people kill people"

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: ard mhacha
Date: 21 May 05 - 05:29 AM

Regarding the Loyalists, wielding those weapons, the following information will give you an insight into Brit collusion with these murderers.

A senior UDA boss facing a murder charge was released on bail at Belfast Crown Court yesterday, [20-5-05].

William "Mo" Courtney is accused of murdering Alan McCullough a former UDA member and associate of Johnny Adair.
Courtney is the latest in a long line of Loyalist leaders to be granted bail while facing serious criminal charges.

In March 32 year-old Laurence Kincaid, a senior north Belfast loyalist, was granted bail despite facing charges of possessing class A drugs with intent to supply.

UDA leader Andre Shoukri was granted bail while facing charges of possessing a gun with intent to endanger life.
Shoukri had been caught with the gun during a loyalist feud in 2003. The trial judge ruled the self-confessed UDA leader was "not a danger to the public".

In December Ihab Shoukri, a brother of Andre and also a leading UDA figure, was granted bail while facing charges of murdering Alan McCullough.

In July 2003, Jim Fulton, a leading loyasist had his bail conditions changed so that he could take part in the July 12 marches.

Nationalist politicians and community leaders have expressed concern at the leniency courts have shown towards leadind loyalists.
Some have suggested that loyalists are being shown leniency because of Special Branch and British army intelligence links to loyalist paramilitaries.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Peace
Date: 21 May 05 - 11:16 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Den
Date: 21 May 05 - 08:28 PM

I seem to remember Bobby Sands getting 14 years with no bail hearing for the same offence as Shoukri (Possession of a weapon). It will be interesting to see how much time he serves. My guess is none.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,rumanci
Date: 22 May 05 - 07:06 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 22 May 05 - 01:06 PM

Thank you, Rum.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 05 - 02:44 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: rumanci
Date: 23 May 05 - 08:31 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Peace
Date: 24 May 05 - 12:56 AM

C'mon, folks. This is important to ALL Irish people.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Peace
Date: 24 May 05 - 10:18 AM

Once more for the morning here.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,DtG bout bickie again
Date: 24 May 05 - 10:41 AM

Just heard an interesting comment on the lunchtime news on Radio 2. The piece was about some report or another (don't you get sick of government reports at times...) which has come to the conclusion that the IRA are still recruiting and training people. No mention of the Loyalist para's recruiting and training:-( Do these people even look at Paisley and his crew?

In fairness the news also stated that the report concluded that both the Republicans AND Loyalists are involved in organised crime. Wonder how many millions it took them to work that little gem out..?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 24 May 05 - 10:50 AM

I rest my case Your Worship!!

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 24 May 05 - 11:38 AM

Ted

Let me get this right ...... if you were a Loyalist you wouldn't give up your weapons because you wouldn't trust the Republicans to do the same.If you were a Republican you wouldn't give up your weapons because you wouldn't trust the Loyalists to do the same. I think you have an impasse here.
As has already been stated by others BOTH sides need to decommission arms but it would seem that most pressure is only being applied to one side.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 24 May 05 - 12:14 PM

Nick,
    If you click onto a couple of 'members' names in this thread, you will notice two things: 1) They only joined very recently. 2)They have only posted to, or started rather lopsided, invidious political threads, all apertaining to Northern Ireland.
      We now have the BNP in the music section, and pro IRA in the BS section. They are taking the piss.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 05 - 12:21 PM

Something you could never be accused of Ted?

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: rumanci
Date: 24 May 05 - 01:24 PM

well .......I'm still waiting for response No. 2 from my MP
hmmmmm

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 May 05 - 02:16 PM

Two public inquiries are talking place at the moment into the murders of Rosemary Nelson and Robert Hamill, both deaths are linked with collusion between the security forces and loyalist murder gangs. To date Pat Finucane`s family, like Rosemary Nelson a Solicitor,are still awaiting a public inquiry into his death.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,DtG - Back door again
Date: 24 May 05 - 06:32 PM

I'm getting worried about all this rear entry... But that's beside the point.

You may be right about new people starting invidious political threads but does that make them wrong Ted? Let me put the record strait on my count. I am neither a new member or one who starts politcal threads to cause discontent or envy! I have started many musical threads and even hosted a couple of Mudcat gatherings in Manchester. I do however respond quite often on topics I feel strongly about.

I was brought up Russian Orthodox but schooled in a Catholic school in Salford. My mother is officialy C of E but leans more to the Methodist faith, where she re-married recently. She has a love for Irish Rebel songs, even though her father was in the Black and Tans. My father is Polish, his father a Russian orthodox priest. He 'converted' us to Catholocism when I was very young. I am now of my very own strong but as yet nameless faith. (Jedi was already taken:-) )

I know a fair bit about injustice from a personal viewpoint and it struck me instantly that there was a distinct injustice in the Norn Iron 'peace process'. Just the same as I always felt it was unjust when the newspapers said that train drivers had brought the country to a standstill by striking rather than the government had brought it to a standstill by not paying a fair wage. Like the TV reporting that the miners were causing trouble and rioting rather than the fact that Thatcher was stiring up the trouble to take away the power the miners had.

Yes, I agree that this and other threads may have been started to agitate political comment and action but isn't that what folk music often does? If that is 'taking the piss' then I stand, as accused, with sample bottle in hand for all to see. But if that is the sum total of your argument against the thread then I think I will stick with this bandwagon rather than jump on yours. Hope you understand.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Peace
Date: 24 May 05 - 07:19 PM

I apologize for asking this here: What does 'taking the piss' mean?

(It took me the better part of a year to find out what 'I can't be arsed' means, and I don't want to let it go that long--or leave it for a more propitious time, because I will forget.)

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: DougR
Date: 24 May 05 - 07:33 PM

It means relieving yourself, brucie! You know, pee pee, or as you Canadians might say, wee wee. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Peace
Date: 24 May 05 - 07:48 PM

Good one.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 May 05 - 03:46 AM

Taking the piss = Taking the Mickey: Winding someone up. Trying it on etc. Probably somewhere in between having a laugh at someone elses expense and pushing your luck.

Aka - Extracting the urine: Pulling my plonker:-)

Any clearer?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST, Guest Soldier boy
Date: 25 May 05 - 05:29 AM

Ii is quite a while from I contributed to this Site, the N Ireland threads always have an interest for me.
I like Jimmy C`s knowledge of the subject,also Dens, Ard Mhaca`s in particular who seems to ne spot on with his observations.

Having served a couple of tours in the early 1970s I can vouch for the fact that we leaned heavily on the RC`s, collusion there definitely was and I am sure that this is still the same to-day.

Keep contributing, as this Site is by far the most interesting on the web.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 25 May 05 - 06:23 AM

Liar!

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 25 May 05 - 06:32 AM

Someone is still breeding them,

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Peace
Date: 25 May 05 - 09:19 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 25 May 05 - 12:03 PM

The idiot who assumes that the Soldier boy is lying, is wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 25 May 05 - 12:23 PM

Soldier boy was well known in Belfast during the early 1970's. I know, I was his boyfriend.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 25 May 05 - 12:24 PM

That last GUEST was not me. I am me.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Peace
Date: 26 May 05 - 01:33 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Peace
Date: 26 May 05 - 09:45 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 26 May 05 - 11:48 AM

In resopnse to Guest who questioned Soldier Boy, I suggest he get himself a copy of Soldier of the Queen by Bernard O`Mahony.

O`Mahony from the English midlands served in Northern Ireland in a Tank Regiment, this tells the true story of the Britsh Army`s role in Northern Ireland, an education for the ignorant.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Den
Date: 26 May 05 - 12:52 PM

For detailed accounts of what the British Government and their military are capable of read, The Dirty War, The Trigger men or God and the gun by Martin Dillon. They are very objective and exhaustively researched books by a very experienced investigative journalist.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Tam the man
Date: 26 May 05 - 01:24 PM

All terrorist groups plus their weapons off the streets, The Irish Nationalists and the republicans are still killing people Omagh, R. McCartney for example, how many Loyalist terrorists have killed or threated to kill, and yet the IRA said that they would KILL anyone who Killed Robert McCartney. And they talk about Peace.
You will never get any form of peace as long as you have idiots like that in Northern Ireland.
There are other ways of dealing with your differences, Killing is not one of them.

Some of you might not agree with me, I'm a Scottish Nationalist, and unlike the Irish Nationalists or some of them, we in the SNP/SSP don't believe in KIlling.
This is my view and you don't have to agree with it.

Tom

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Den
Date: 26 May 05 - 03:43 PM

Tam from your last post it is blatantly obvious that you know absolutely nothing about what has gone on or is going on in N. Ireland and the tragedy is some people will agree with your view. Do a little Google search for loyalist murders since Good Friday came into effect, now that shouldn't be too taxing for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Den
Date: 26 May 05 - 04:06 PM

I didn't think that Tam would find anything or even bother his arse looking so I decided to give him a hand. here's one to get you started Tam:

Lisa Dorrian, 25, disappeared after a party at a caravan site in Ballyhalbert on 28 February (2005). Her body has not been found.

The LVF has said it intends to give a presbyterian minister a letter naming those it suspects of her murder.

"A range of loyalist sources have linked members and associates of the LVF to Lisa Dorrian's murder."

Lisa's murder has largely gone unnoticed around the Mudcat but it does bare some similarities to a murder that got plenty of people condemning Nationalists for.

Anyway Tam, I can help out with some more should your search not bear fruit.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 26 May 05 - 04:18 PM

For Tam.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Barry O
Date: 26 May 05 - 04:52 PM

Den:

Your previous posts on Mudcat have shown that you are a dense twat but let me just explain what shouldn't need explaining. ALL paramilitary groups should get rid of their weapons. These thugs need to stop feeding off the people of Northern Ireland.

Your constant "whataboutery" serves no purpose in solving the problems of Northern Ireland. The "eye for an eye" philosophy on both sides of the divide has long since left too many people blind.

The reason some of us in Mudcat have previously posted messages critical of the IRA is that prats like you have defended their involvement in the Robert McCartney murder.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Den
Date: 26 May 05 - 05:51 PM

Well Barry O, good name by the way. You seem like a reasonable sort? I usualy like to discuss things with people with civility if I can. I don't usually resort to name calling, I don't like to reduce things to certain levels. Its a little, well childish. Don't you think? Maybe thats how you communicate, I won't assume though. I think I have stated before that all paramilitaries should get rid of their weapons not just one side. I'll say that again in case you were distracted. All paramilitaries should get rid of their weapons. I'm sorry to hear that you consider me a prat, but I'll get over it. Mostly what I do here Barry is address misinformation. You can call it "whataboutery" but there's a lot of it about and most of it is unsubstaniated. You don't seem to be overly critical of the loyalist paramilitaries and their weapons or am I missing something. Maybe while you're at it you can tell me how I, "defended the involvement of the IRA in the Robert McCartney murder." And while I have you on a roll maybe you can tell us what should be done to get ALL weapons off the street. Now you have yourself a great day.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Den
Date: 26 May 05 - 06:20 PM

Oh almost forgot Barry you insulted me with the words twat and prat. There's almost a hint of a lyric there. You might want to develop that further you're obviously a person of some talent.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 26 May 05 - 07:23 PM

99

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 26 May 05 - 07:23 PM

Up the 'ra. This one's for ted.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Peace
Date: 26 May 05 - 08:44 PM

Up the 'ra.

Here, that can mean 'up with to 'ra' or 'frig the 'ra'. Just thought I'd mention.