Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?

Subject: Max: Could you set up an MPE section?
From: harpgirl
Date: 20 May 05 - 06:08 PM

Hi Max. Someone suggested somewhere that it would be great if we had our own mudcatters mp3 section so we could add our own performances to the mudcat. Could you do that?

l,h

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MPE section?
From: Brakn
Date: 20 May 05 - 06:12 PM

Sounds good.

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MPE section?
From: Max
Date: 20 May 05 - 06:35 PM

I'll get right on that.

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MPE section?
From: harpgirl
Date: 20 May 05 - 07:31 PM

Are you teasing?

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MPE section?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 20 May 05 - 08:31 PM

All we need is to sort how a 'puter illiterate like me can produce an MP3 to put up !!

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MPE section?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 05 - 11:12 PM

NO!

Go to the newsgroups .... why waist band-width on disillusioned EGOs???

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 05 - 11:15 PM

One of them anyway.

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 05 - 11:17 PM

someone needs compliments

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: mg
Date: 21 May 05 - 12:58 AM

I think it would be great...but I imagine there are great bandwidth problems....what if people did their own on their own websites and just provided links? mg

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: Peace
Date: 21 May 05 - 01:00 AM

Now THERE'S an idea.

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 21 May 05 - 10:03 AM

There's an excellent idea. Bandwidth can be expensive.

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: Wrinkles
Date: 21 May 05 - 10:13 AM

Send me a tape Terry and I can convert to MP3 for you

Question from thicko here; what exactly is bandwidth anyway?

Wrinkles

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 May 05 - 10:21 AM

I think the Cat has enough problems already w/o adding something else to break.

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 May 05 - 10:25 AM

What Sorcha said...

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: Jeri
Date: 21 May 05 - 10:56 AM

Bandwidth is... the width of the lanes a certain bit of the information superhighway has versus how wide the band's bus is. It's about whether the traffic (information) can get where it's going reliably and easily, or if there's a jam someplace.   It's more often a concern of end-users, as in "I'd really like to download the 1 million garbanzo-bytes of Tyler Quandeaux's new CD "Smell My Pieds, American Persons!" but I'm on a dialup and don't have enough bandwidth. See, Ty's got a really wide band (on the bus), and on my exit off the information superhighway,the snails have to walk (or whatever it is snails do) single file.

It can be a concern of the Server Dude though. As in "Everybody seems to want to download all the tracks on Ty Quandeaux's CD. Now, I've got a big honkin' on ramp with room for 10 of Ty's band busses to leave at the same time, but that 11th means the MIDI motorscooters are screwed and will have to wait.

If Max has a big enough server, it won't be a big deal to put a couple of MBs worth of one MP3 up for everybody here. Max may have a big enough server - I don't know, but bandwith is the connection people use to get to the server and the connection the server uses to get to the rest of the internet.   

It would be up to Max to say if he has the bandwidth to handle it. I mostly don't have the bandwidth to download MP3s. I believe long ago Max said he wanted to put MP3s up here, but for some reason, I detect just the slightest bit of sarcasm in "I'll get right on that."

An MP3 would be great on a person's profile. MP3s of DT songs would be great, but would be a pretty big project. Mudcat has always been more about the music than the musicians, and it's just barely about the music at all currently. Promotion of artists is best done at sites developed specifically for that purpose or on an artist's own page.

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 May 05 - 11:10 AM

For those of us with the technical knowledge, or friends with such knowledge, it's not that difficult to set up your own personal website and create a link from a Mudcat thread to it. I do that all the time, especially when I'm posting a song that I've composed or a poem that I've set to music. Usually, I only include a sample of the first verse and chorus to save memory but that's enough to give someone a good idea of how I sing it.

To make this process clearer: Click here!

In my opinion Max has enough to do maintaining this site without providing a MP3 library for our members.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: Louie Roy
Date: 21 May 05 - 12:33 PM

In my opinion this is a bad idea and will only create more problems for Max.I also believe that if such a program is adopted there would have to be a censor committee set up or we would have some very derogative MP3s that would be sent and I also think before the dust setteled there would be a lot of hurt feeling.Regardless what you do Max you have my Vote NO NO NO NO Louie Roy

Subject: RE: MP3 section? - Recommend NO
From:
Date: 21 May 05 - 06:51 PM

I'd recommend no.

As someone already said, Bandwidth problems. FOr those who wonder what that really means? Well... The internet, as a "super"highway of information is akin to the modern interstate (in the US), you have about a dozen streams of traffic headed in one direction, and another dozen going the other way. At some point in time, there are off-ramps. At those junctures you find a limit usually of one to two lanes. That narrowing of the traffic flow is what we're talking about.

There is a physical limit to how much data can come out of a single computer.

For instance, there could be as many as (total guess on my part) 10 people on the Mudcat at one time. OK, now it's not TOO bad when we're accessing the Forum, or the DT, as they're basically a database of text. So the speed is reduced but not terrible. If you wound up with all TEN of those people downloading a bunch of MP3s, then there is no capability for the Mudcat Computer to be available for the Forum or DT.

We have enough complaints (not from me) when the Mudcat is unavailable for even half an hour. Let's NOT compound the problem with MP3 Downloads. The MIDI section is similar but does NOT take up the vast amount of time MP3 downloads would require.

It's MUCH easier if people had their own web-pages (and it's easy enough to do that) and had their OWN links for their OWN MP3s.

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 May 05 - 07:05 PM

I posted before, but it didn't seem to stick.

Basically I suggest that you send Jeff the URL for ONE MP3 - or prefereably the site where however many you want to share can be found - he can add this into your profile page as per the normal manual way he does updates you send him as he gets the time to do it.

It is an idea though that in the profile page, there could be a spot for this - but that would take programming work.

Robin

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 May 05 - 07:06 PM

I'll add my two pence worth, and agree that this is probably a no no, for all the good reasons already given.

Own website with link is what I'm currently setting up, and, for those who are not sure they have the necessary technical expertise, I'm certain that there are a number of us who would help with advice where needed.

Spreading the bandwidth useage over a hundred personal websites would mean trouble free, speedy downloads, which would also save considerable expense for those downloading who are still on dial up.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: bobad
Date: 21 May 05 - 07:18 PM

There are sites where one one simply clicks on a selection and hears a song immediately. I believe this is termed streaming audio and usually uses Real Player or Windows Media Player to transfer the tune. Now, if a member was to make available one song on his profile page in this format would that cause the kind of traffic jams you forecast for downloading MP3's ?

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 05 - 07:21 PM

And when you finish doing that, Max, get me a beer from the fridge will you?

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 May 05 - 07:42 PM

I don't know for certain, Bobad, but I would think that you would be using significant amounts of bandwidth while listening to streaming audio, maybe as much as downloading.

I think we all get an allocation of webspace for a site when we register with an ISP, so it would seem to be smart to make use of that.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: mg
Date: 22 May 05 - 12:08 AM

Maybe there could be a page or permalink devoted to clicks..I think it would click away from Mudcat and not use any bandwidth here at all..but I could be wrong..and I would strongly recommend only full length songs and not just little samples. And if there was info on how to buy that person's cd or whatever, great...if it were on their private site. mg

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 May 05 - 01:00 AM

If you use a 'background down-loader' prog - there are lots of them out there - you can download huge files (several Mb) over a period of days, weeks even in the background while doing your normal stuff over Dialup - I do. They are designed to auto recover and pull bits of the file down then reassemble the file - you can even run multiple streams on the one file which will speed up the dnlding as the different streams 'queue & interlace' and fill up the channel. Only a few sites will not allow auto restart.

This does not work for 'Real Audio files' only things like MP3s, (and any file (exe, etc) stored at a URL basically - also works with files fed by links that feed the file in response to any server code on the server. I have mine set for 'auto takeover' of all downloads - it bypasses the standard MS way of doing it.

The Current (free) one I use - but it keeps falling over so I'm still looking, is Free Download Manager - you can throttle the speed and set priorities and number of simultaneous downloads, etc. I can even set a high prority to dnld a small Mudcat Midi quickly and instantly while the big one keeps chugging away in the background too. Only hassle is if I try to push thru too much (set dnlding BW too high) while running Mudchat - Mudchat can drop out due to the delays.

Robin

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: GUEST,WYSIWYG
Date: 22 May 05 - 09:49 AM

My concern is not so much bandwidth, but that people who have no interest in sharing in music discussion would soon Google in here and flood the site with promotional MP3s and threads, taking advantage of your generous heart to turn Mudcat into a frankly commercial site. Then there would have to be decisions made about how to maintain server and capacity to be fair in keeping it available.

We already have PalTalk, exchanging CDs and tapes, emailing MP3s, and our own websites to share our music, in the spirit of community-- not to mention a good number of Mudcatters sharing songs via the Mudcat Sampler CDs. I think more of us want Mudcat Radio back than want a place to hang up MP3s.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 22 May 05 - 09:54 AM

Could we please get Mudcat sorted out so we can actually get into it before we even think about adding other things to it? Just at the moment I'd like to be able to access my PMs and get into the chat, but, as happens 9 times out of ten that I try, I can't.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 May 05 - 12:23 PM

Here here Lynne!

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: Bill D
Date: 22 May 05 - 01:12 PM

where, where? *pedant alert* it's 'hear, hear'*end pedant alert*

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: BanjoRay
Date: 22 May 05 - 01:25 PM

Wouldn't the simplest way, with the least loss of bandwidth be to just be able to put a link into your entry in the Member Info database, then it's up to the mudcatter to ensure that the mp3 is available at the other end of the link.
Ray

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 05 - 01:38 PM

And I thought Bandwidth was the spread of the 3 Arsh Tenors or whatever those portly guys are called. The bandwidth increases when the 4th guy, called McDermut, is added.

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 May 05 - 01:45 PM

Naah... I was open, and was calling Lynne to pass it to me!

LOL

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 22 May 05 - 02:01 PM

Yeah, how is that whole MudCat Radio thing goin' anyway...

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 May 05 - 02:04 PM

HA!

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 05 - 02:43 PM

what about just using something like soundclick and linking to it from the individuals biog?

use their bandwidth not mudcats

Clr

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From:
Date: 22 May 05 - 03:28 PM

Foolestroupe, if the files were on Mudcat's system, that would NOT help. Background on YOUR computer isn't background at the other end. It STILL uses the bandwidth found at the Mudcat and reduce the available bandwidth for others to utilize.

I agree with the proponents to free up as much of Mudcat's own bandwidth for the DT and Forum access.

If we link to the member's own page where they have the MP3 or even more than one, it would make much more efficient use of the Internet's capability. Rather than tie up the Mudcat systems, it would make it much easier for all to access whatever they wish.

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: Nick
Date: 22 May 05 - 07:16 PM

One place you might like to look at to house mp3's with no bandwidth issues (either for Max or for personal sites) is ic-musicmedia which will happily host a number of mp3's for you for the wonderful FREE amount.

I was put onto it by a friend (Beast of Farlington) and my son currently has 8 mp3's on there which he then links to on his web page and also on other forums (fora - for pedants).

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 May 05 - 07:47 PM

Forii? or is that 'Flora & Fauna'... those two nice endlessly young ladies who dance around semi-clad in the environment? :-)

Various other posters

1) Yes, putting it all in Max's lap will chew up the already available BW to the Cat - I currently have enough problems holding onto a Mudcat session sometimes because the current Mudcat BW means that I can't get the internal 'heartbeat' stuff to keep a Mudcat session alive - it keeps on dooring me, then I often find that although it has just told me I am no longer connected, it won't let me in because my User Name is still in use!

I detest 'Real Audio' and other streaming formats - on dialup I can't get them to flow in properly from places with bandwidth glitches like Mudcat displays - it starts and stops all the time, and takes 10 times the length of time to play the file while consuming the resource I pay for (time) - I also can't 'background download' Streaming Files, which can be done at MY convenience while doing other things.

George Seto

Paras 1 & 2) Agree. Don't seem to remember actually saying to put the music file on Mudcat anyway - did suggest that they be held on the member's own sites (or somewhere like Nick suggests).

Para 3) For me, at least, something seems to clog the path to the Cat regularly and sporadically often causing dropouts of the Chat & any downloads which then need to be restarted - wasting connect time.

Of course, no one here knows that I started playing around with electrinics in the 1960's then moving on to Main frame and 'personal computers' - not getting annoyed - just stating something... :-)

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From:
Date: 23 May 05 - 03:52 PM

Foolestroupe, only the first paragraph of my last message was for you. The rest of it was for others.

I also did the same path you did, only I started in the mid '70s.

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: GUEST,joseacsilva
Date: 23 May 05 - 06:24 PM

I think people here have noticed that it would be very difficult to host a place at mudcat with all mp3 that would com up.Like Nick mentioned ,I found a place ( sonicgarden.com), where they can host a limited number of songs(I myself have put a few there in genre blues ,
subgenre acoustic, as guitarjoe).Maybe this could be a way for the new musicians to show their songs there at mudcat, by putting available the links for the sites.

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 24 May 05 - 02:11 PM

After reading what everybody has to say on this subject I would have to agree that MP3s on Mudcat are not practical for reasons cited above. However, what I would suggest is putting all songs in the Digital Tradition into a Midi Karaoke format. Let us face it. The midi file section on Mudcat is still in the stone age. With the exception of Ashokan Farewell the midis on Mudcat are limited and of very poor quality. It the past 2 years the improvement in midi files have been phenominal and can sound like a complete orchestra. Add to that, the free karaoke players such as VanBasco and you can have a Digital Tradition that combines lyrics and music in a way which actually teaches you how to sing the song. I am now in the process of assembling a library of Folk Music midi karaoke files and will be able to contribute significantly to such a project if Max decides he wants to go that way.
                                           SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 24 May 05 - 07:59 PM

Zol - the DT has a decent midi collection (and growing)

It is up to the individual wether they ABC them, Karaoke them, Cakewalk them, GarageBand them, Sheetmusic them, or run Acoustical to place them at the Gran ol Opry or Carnigie.

The raw material is here - what you want to hear is up to the individual.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 May 05 - 08:33 PM

The tune files for DT are purposely simple and melody-line only, in most cases, so the singer can hear the melody and then create their own unique version. They are not intedned to replace the song itself, sung.

~S~

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 May 05 - 09:56 PM

and, the DT..(the database) is not Max's project anyway....Dick Greenhaus and Susan of DT do the database: Max was merely good enough to host it. Most of those midis were entered laborously by hand just to show the basic tune. Dick is quite aware that there are real experts in midi sequencing out there who do quite complex arrangements. I have heard some wonderful ones, but I have heard some that were WAY overdone and didn't 'fit' the song ...in my opinion.

The midis in the DT, while not art in themselves, allow the person interested in learning the tune to hear a standard version, and then add the frills, trills and variations that they prefer. In 'folk', this is probably the safest route anyway.

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: open mike
Date: 24 May 05 - 11:18 PM

i agree with those who cautioned against adding mp3's.
there is enough here to maintain already, and it would
be best if it was working better. If some advancement
happens that allows a whole lot more activities to
occur here simultaneously, then, o.k. but it seems as
if the resources here are stretched to the max (uh-hum)
as it is, without adding the straw that broke the camel's
back.

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 24 May 05 - 11:46 PM

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 25 May 05 - 12:10 AM

Mr. Zol,


It appears my reply to your posting was exermbpted by the inter-net elves.

In short - the DT offers everything a creative individual could want....Karokee, Carnagie, Garage, Cakewalk, ABC, or Staff....

The choice for application is totally individual.

Sincerely,

Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Max: Could you set up an MP3 section?
From:
Date: 25 May 05 - 05:52 PM

Rabbi-Sol, as WYSIWYG says, the MIDIs at the DT are what I want. I want to be able to hear the singing part. I don't WANT the "blather" of the orchestra. It's just so much added noise. On MIDI's like that I have to take OUT all the rest of it to make sense of the song part.

Nevertheless, your Karaoke project sounds nice. I'm just used to acapella singing.