BS: US ID cards?

Subject: BS: US ID cards?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 May 05 - 10:48 AM

Worrying - particularly the way it was sneaked through congress without debhttp://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?page_id=congresspassesreal1116241851&area=news
ate.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 May 05 - 11:51 AM

Well I don't know how much it costs to get a drivers licence issued in the US, but the UK government who are determined to push through ID cards for us in the UK, are quoting an approximate cost of about £80 per capita for an ID card. That's about $150 US compulsory charge for a card which most people don't want, I can see where they might be useful but charging that much to get one isn't very good PR.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 May 05 - 11:57 AM

If it'd replace the Drivers licence, health card, Social insurance, the Passport, and all other forms of ID, I can't see what the problem is...

If it's just another form of ID for the sake of having more ID, well, it's not surprising....

It's certainly not gonna make your 'nation' any more 'secure'

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 May 05 - 12:18 PM

Can't do that, the idea is to create more civil servants not less.
G

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 23 May 05 - 12:27 PM

What's more (and not discussed either above or in the article) it bids fair to snarl up and slow down the license process, and mandate a tremendous unfunded additional overhead expense to the states.

Every piece of identification (I don't know, possibly not birth certificates) will have to be verified, lest they be forgeries. So you go into the license branch, and provide the several pieces, like utility bills. Someone at the branch has to verify those with the water company or electric company. Have you had occasion yourself to call a utility about something, and have to wait, and wait, and wait? That process is going to call for a humongous increase in license branch personnel. And it's the state that's going to pay, not the federal government. And you know, of course, that the state will then have to recover those costs (including not only personnel overhead but the cost of additional office space, telephone and/or computer equipment, etc.). And how will they recover it? From the driver's license applicant, of course!

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 May 05 - 02:06 AM

But surely the big worry is how it got through without any debate? How much more law is made without scrutiny?

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 May 05 - 04:02 AM

I don't know a lot about US legislative procedure, but I do believe that sometimes things like this are tacked on to other legislation which bears no relation to the main bill.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: ejsant
Date: 24 May 05 - 08:16 AM

"I don't know a lot about US legislative procedure, but I do believe that sometimes things like this are tacked on to other legislation which bears no relation to the main bill.
Giok"

Greetings Giok,

That seems to be the way of the times any more. I was told that there was a provision tacked onto the Homeland Security Bill that sealed all court records as they related to mercury toxicity. Now what mercury toxicity has to do with Homeland Security is way beyond me.

Greetings All,

Make no mistake about it this change in issuing drivers licenses is solely for the purpose of building a national ID data base. Here we go again infringing upon the privacy rights of the masses for the purpose of rooting out clearly what is a mathematically insignificant minority. All the while standing no chance what-so-ever of preventing another attack. How much more will we stand for? When will we learn that the Democrat and Republican leaders are solely interested in protecting their own power, and therefore financial, base?   

Fill the lanterns lad, saddle your horse, and climb the church steeple, the Politicians are coming!

Peace,
Ed

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 24 May 05 - 08:20 AM

I guess I don't understand the fuss over having to carry ID - I mean, if you get hit by a bus, you want to be John/Jane Doe?

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: ejsant
Date: 24 May 05 - 08:23 AM

It's a weak effort I'll agree but to the point in my mind!

Where has the presumption of innocence gone? Long time passing.
Where has the presumption of innocence gone? Long time ago.
Where has the presumption of innocence gone? Traded for fear and greed every one!
When will we ever learn? When will we ever Learn?

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 05 - 10:33 AM

I thought the US driver's license has served as a form of national identification for years. As it is now, state police certainly have no trouble linking to databases if they pull you over while you're travelling out-of-state. They get fast access to things like outstanding warrants and such.

I can see where it's an invasion of privacy for someone who has had a driver's license for years, and then suddenly is required to prove who s/he is for the purposes of issuing a "Real ID."

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 May 05 - 11:02 AM

Sneaking in new laws is now the norm.

TIPS was an Ashcroft proposal that would make it a crime to not inform on your neighbors. It was not passed as a law but as a social program of respondsibility.

But here it comes again under a new name and may likely sneak into law.
http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/22048/

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 May 05 - 12:37 PM

Where can I sign up for one?

When can I tell all the illegal aliens in this country where the doorway out is?

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 May 05 - 01:13 PM

Martin, you are all aliens in America, except the native Americans and Inuit.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: DougR
Date: 24 May 05 - 02:18 PM

No big deal.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 May 05 - 02:29 PM

Bridge, too bad. It's ours now and been ours to develop and lead the world in.

Deal with it. Go have intercourse with one of your clients or something else you do all of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: GUEST,Skokie Joe
Date: 24 May 05 - 03:05 PM

Martin, it is surprising that someone who depends on anonymity as much as you do would give it up so easily--I'll bet you wouldn't even mind if they sewed a Star of David on your coat--strictly for identification purposes--

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 May 05 - 03:06 PM

Lead the world Martin?? What in?
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 May 05 - 03:19 PM

Skokie Joe

I hardly feel threatend by my country. That's your problem. the most anti-semetism I face of late is found here on Mudcat. and Skokie Joe, Skokie is where I went to high school and is the adjacent town from where I live. You don't know squat about the place.

Giok, I would say in just about everything. What American brand name products have you used today?

How much of the UK and the rest of Europe would be speaking just German....................

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 24 May 05 - 04:20 PM

Richard Bridge opined:


Martin, you are all aliens in America, except the native Americans and Inuit.

Richard, so are they. We are all African-Americans, if you go back far enough!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: GUEST,Skokie Joe
Date: 24 May 05 - 04:51 PM

Martin Gibson, I did not know you were a Jew(Gibson is not usually a Jewish name;-). I did not mean to offend you. I speak from my own families experience. My grandparents were born here, but they had relations who didn't make it over before they stopped letting Jews immigrate to this country. Even when it became clear what was happening the American government sent Jews who were trying to escape back into the hands of the Nazis rather than take them in. In my family, we never forgot. If it happened once, it can happen again.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 May 05 - 12:00 PM

Guest, Skokie Joe,

No problem. Martin Gibson is a screen name that I use only here on this website. It is a cutesy name I created using the best two traditional American guitar names.

Excuse me, if I am sensitive to this subject. Mudcat is full of Anti-Israel, anti semetic types who now look upon Jews as Nazi types who persecute Palestinians and other Arabs. This group of clientelle here sadly represent what the new liberalism is about and how it is nothing more than a new version of anti-semetism disguised in a politically correct format.

Not all here are like that, for sure. However, I must warn you that I expose this group frequently for what they are and they know it and do everything they can to suppress me.

Shalom and peace be with you. Maybe see you at Kauffman's deli one day.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: GUEST,Skokie Joe
Date: 25 May 05 - 02:15 PM

Kauffman's? But only if it's crowded--I don' trust myself alone with all that food--

With the all the folk music, I should have guessed your name was just a clever screen name. "Skokie Joe" is a "real" nickname, because I am from Skokie and I like to play the old "Lieber and Stoller " songs.

I found this site while I was looking for lyrics to old klezmer songs(but never found any) I am surprised that there is antisemitism here, since so many folkies are Jews--or at least used to be. But the world changes, I guess.

Anyone who is Anti-Israel has never been there--Arabs and Jews live together, and they get along--There are troubles, but it is because there are many outside of Israel who don't want it to succeed--but it is still there--So Martin, don't let any of the mamzers get you down--Shalom back at you, and A Bi Gezunt!

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Pauline L
Date: 25 May 05 - 03:32 PM

Back to the topic: Measures like requiring everyone to get a new, blessed ID will be such a hassle for so many people, and that certainly won't stop terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: jpk
Date: 25 May 05 - 05:47 PM

remember,no govtermental institution as any intrest in solving the so called problem,that they were put into place to solve,they ain't to dumb.why work to put yourself out of a job!p.s. if they do not have a problem to fix,they will invent one[invent the fix,and the problem will come,feild of dreams??]

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 May 05 - 05:52 PM

Man jpk is one of the most literal geniuses here. I can't tell you where I have seen such fabulous writing.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: jpk
Date: 25 May 05 - 06:01 PM

report to the depo martin,they have a cattle car with your name on it justawaitin

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 May 05 - 06:04 PM

jpk, it's going to auschwitz, right? Figures you would put me there.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 26 May 05 - 05:05 PM

For those of you who believe in prophecy! Identity cards are the beginning....If you don't know anything about "The mark of the Beast" then consult the Bible and find out before they actually bring in the chip in the forehead or back of the hand.......It WILL HAPPEN
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 May 05 - 05:12 PM

Good. Put one in everyone named Abdul.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: jpk
Date: 26 May 05 - 05:42 PM

bet martin will be the first on in line,seems he just can't wait.then maybe he can check out of walmart faster.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: jaze
Date: 26 May 05 - 06:22 PM

Wouldn't it make more sense to require ID cards of all NON-citizens? That way the gov't could keep track of the people it should be keeping track of. It's just more gov't intrusion into people's lives.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: SharonA
Date: 26 May 05 - 07:36 PM

Sounds to me as if "personal ID" is going the way of

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: GUEST,Skokie Joe
Date: 26 May 05 - 11:05 PM

I must admitted that I doubted you, Martin--but these people are abominable.

jpk. you are a piece of trash. You have said something sick, disgusting, and vile--You think that it is a joke to taunt a Jew with references to the death camps-from the posts above, you know that members of my family were murdered by the Nazis--and you know that Martin is a Jew, and also from Skokie where many of our friends and neighbors had been in the death camps, so you know that what you said is an affront to our personal experiences--

In some places it is against the law to make jokes like that in public, particularly when they are personally directed at Jews--in every place, it is indecent--

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 May 05 - 11:05 AM

Guest, Skokie Joe, I'm glad you caught on. Do a search here on anti-semetism and you will see some article I have posted where there is a new angle now from the left, which quite possibly you once identified with as I did, and you will see why the time has come that more and more once liberal Jews cannot relate any longer to the politically correct and twisted cess pool that liberalism has become.

It's a sorry thing.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 May 05 - 11:12 AM

jpk, I detest many of the things that Gibson says. None of his comments were more abominal than what you have said. The death camps are not a subject of jokes, unless one is a sick person. This is one gentile who cannot stomach this type of terrible comment. Is it any wonder that Jews feel that persecution is their lot, and are sick of it? Were I a Jew, I am quite sure that I would belong to JDL for no other reason than to fight those that are all too ready to water down the horrific history of the Nazi terror on the Jewish people.

Martin, your comment about Abdul was a gross generalization. It is a disservice to the brave Moslem men and women who serve in our armed forces, as well as to those of Arab descent who are decent folks just trying to live the American dream.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 May 05 - 12:03 PM

Oh Mick, you are so righteous. I hope everyone can grow up just like you but still stay away from all of those cheeseburgers.

But you are right. jpk is a flaming rectalite.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: M.Ted
Date: 27 May 05 - 02:14 PM

Mick, think a bit before you sign up. Without going into tedious detail, I was acquainted with Meier Kahane and the JDL--Israel didn't brand one of its own as a terrorist for no reason--

Martin--As a former 60's leftist myself, I can understand your disillusionment--in those days, it seems like everybody wanted to be a Jew--and now, things have turned 180 degrees.

Before Hitler, the Jews in Germany thought that they were accepted, as well, not to imply too close a parallel, but but backslapping can change to backstabbing pretty quickly. That's why I am more than a little nervous about this sudden love of Israel by some conservative Christian types--only a couple years back, they were calling us "Christ-killers".

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 May 05 - 02:35 PM

Mted, after 9/11 they see how much we are like them and how much the world of Islam is not.

Pretty simple, really.

I am glad that Christians and Jews have pulled somewhat closer together. I don't think that with the 10th century world of Islamo-facism, that will ever happen with them.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: jpk
Date: 27 May 05 - 05:29 PM

first off ihappen to like most of the jews i have met, second,i've my doubts about martin being jewish,or anything else for that matter.he has already said that he is a liar[the persona martin gibson stated more than once that he was fictional,therefore every thing else,maybe/more than likly,is as well.].    btw jaze,i like your idea.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 May 05 - 05:37 PM

Nice tap dance jpk. I never said I was a liar. I said my name is fictious for this web site, but I have vehemtly defended my religion and culture here from anti-semites like yourself.

You have been exposed as a Jew hater.

I will constantly be reminding everyone of that when our paths cross on this forum. You can bet on it.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: jpk
Date: 27 May 05 - 05:41 PM

also i was referring to it's basic meaning,being a bird with it's head buried in the said.more than just jews were herded around in cattle cars,and not by just the germans either.try russians,china,korea,and so forth.he will be asking why no one is left to speak out for him when his turn comes.then again the way he likes too badmouth everyone else,they might not speak out anyway

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: jpk
Date: 27 May 05 - 05:43 PM

better tell my ole man that martin,he fought and damn near died for the likes of your sorry ass!

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 May 05 - 05:46 PM

jpk

exposed as a Jew hater.

Your so done they can put a fork in you.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 May 05 - 06:26 PM

Gobson you appear to have no understanding of truth or rationality.

You are the alien in America, yet now seek to expel all aliens.
You complain of discrimination against you yet condemn everyone called Abdul.
You complain of generalisations about Jews, yet readily provide foolish ones about lawyers. We English lawyers gave you such freedom and democracy as you have. Lawyers in America defend the freedoms you say you have and prize.
You claim an inheritance of and purport to defend democracy yet support a law passed with sleight of hand but without democratic debate.
You rail against those who mention Nazi pass laws, yet want pass laws for others.
You are, frankly, sickening and while I am not into any God thing much, I do thank God that most of my Jewish friends and former law partners are nothing like you. When a culture needs you to defend it, God help it.

The rest of the world does not need you or want you. You typify all the things of America the rest of the world hates, scorns and despises. Your economy is in free fall. Your currency is in free fall. Your foolish military expenditure and colonialist programmes drag them down more even than Kruschev's did his. Your energy consumption and greed rises daily beyond not only your means but also the means of the rest of the world.

I expect you wear a baseball cap, probably backwards. Go to a NASCAR track. Walk on it. Soon.

When you are extinct, like the dinosaur (probably the diplodocus, with a brain in its arse), civilisation may return to the rest of the world. Good riddance to you.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: GUEST,itchybrain
Date: 28 May 05 - 03:16 AM

It's grimly ironic that the nation that is viewed to be the most free is also the most in chains so far as the willingness of its most vocal citizens to accept opposing viewpoints is concerned.

We should, in the USA, be supremely proud of the good things, just as any of another nation would be. But at the same time, we have things that we should be supremely disgusted to see happening within our country, when the same people who are determined to hold on to their own freedoms seek to deny the same freedoms when they are claimed by others within their borders.

I suppose that it is a symptom of something, but quite what I am not sure. Just as Lincoln's emancipation intentions took a good 80 years to show any particular signs of being implemented, the problems are not going to be solved any day soon without a major change in heart by US Citizens and, perhaps, the whole political electoral process. For although it is those elected to political office who are best equipped to initiate change, without a substantial change in their electoral priorities from corporations to citizens, there is little that will come about.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 May 05 - 05:33 PM

Richard Bridge, kiss your Queen's smelly ass.

You fuck your clients in the pocketbook and in their ass. We owe your country nothing and you owe us plenty for always bailing you out and protecting you like we did in WWII.

We don't need you either Bridge and we don't really want you. You bring down our standard of living with your drinking and bad teeth. You let every undesirable into your country to the point where your country has lost it's heritage. Your women don't shave their legs and armpits. Your royal family is your entertainment and represent the decadence that you yourself aspire to.

Not only that, but you love to use our American products.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: GUEST,Martin' Mother
Date: 28 May 05 - 05:44 PM

Good job son telling this stiff of a lawyer what a big piece of dreck he is.

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: jpk
Date: 28 May 05 - 05:58 PM

martin,we will all know you any place,when we see you.you will be the trash with filth flowing from it's uper and lower orrifice's! oh btw,may god bless. opp,s i forgot you think are god!!!

Subject: RE: BS: US ID cards?
From: Peace
Date: 28 May 05 - 06:00 PM

"We owe your country nothing and you owe us plenty for always bailing you out and protecting you like we did in WWII."

As I recall, Churchill made the request or aid in 1939. The reply didn't come for two years. Must have been slow internet in those days.