BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?

Subject: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 07:23 AM

Homolka goes free - with restrictions

Certainly the conditions imposed upon her are more reasonable than the original 'deal with the devil' she struck with the Crown 12 years ago - you know, the one that allowed her to get away with at least 3 rape-torture-killings.

But I'm wondering - do these restrictions, binding on her for only 12 months after release, leave you - or your teenage daughters/neighbours - feeling safe? Or satisfied that the interests of public safety have finally been served in this case?   Or that the criminal justice system here has shown itself to be, by and large, fair and effective after all?

On a more philosophical note (since this is the loudest 'buzz' in Cdn coffeeshops over the last couple days) - why do you think horrible things like this happen in the first place? Does individual psychopathology explain it all? Or perhaps social pathology; the commercial exploitation of human sexuality (especially women) that the entire population is pummelled with via the media from birth onward? Or are incidences like these just horrible 'flukes'?

And for those of us more mystically inclined - what might be the spiritual "reason" for a Homolka or a Bernardo?   

Finally, is that enough questions for you?   ;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 07:47 AM

I don't think we should have to discuss this matter at all. They should have been executed with the same electrical cord they used on those poor young girls.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Mooh
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 07:56 AM

I wouldn't want to judge her now, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence to indicate she has changed. Even if there was, what's the risk of her falling of the wagon like any other abuser?

The public got a raw deal the first time around when Homolka got a light sentence. Now we reap what we sow. 12 years ago my girls were toddlers, now they're not. Whether she's a risk to reoffend or not, and I can't believe she's not, there's no comfort for parents like me. The only ones who thought the "deal with the devil" was good in the first place were the prosecutors and maybe Homolka herself. I recall that public sentiment at the time was that she and her mate hadn't a hope. Now folks are saying "I told you so".

My guess is she's learned a few things about evading the law but hasn't lost any of her primal urges to abuse and assault. She could become like that guy out west who managed to assault and kill dozens of prostitutes before being caught, and we could be calling this dance all over again in a few years.

The conditions which created Homolka still exist in society, and another like her could be spawned. Whether the legal system has learned any lessons remain to be seen.

Things like this happen because there are always extremes to all things and she was/is an extreme which never reformed and by chance found a place to nurture her pathology.

I bet the victims families weren't looking forward to this time in history, but the question that I can't fathom is how could she make her own sister a victim? Karla apparently knew no limit to her selfish desires and couldn't even stop at loved ones...loved ones, there's a description.

There is no spiritual explanation or reason other than a failure to control, educate, prevent, or reform before the fact of her crimes. Did/does she have a spiritual life at all?

I don't trust her not to reoffend. God help the next victim.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 12:55 PM

I hope someone puts a million bullets into that bitch-c#nt!

"God help the next victim."
There is no "god"... helping them is OUR responsibility...

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Peace
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 06:51 PM

"the ghost of 'lectricty howls in the bones of her face" (BD)

She makes me reconsider my position on the death penalty in Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: GUEST,gnu
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 07:06 PM

There is 'beyond a shadow of a doubt'. There is forgiveness for those who commit manslaughter. There is help for those who commit murder. There is absolutely nothing for her. Every breath she takes is an affront to all and a waste of air. Same for Paul. There is something truely wrong when we cannot find the strength to cull such vileness from our society... no matter how vile such culling is.

Clinton... bullets? A waste of money.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 01:15 PM

Yer right Gnu... But that doesn't change my opinion...

I hope someone kills that bitch... kills her dead...

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 01:31 PM

This is the only case that ever inspired me to sit down and seriously re-think my stance on the death penalty. But I always find myself where Mooh does: I don't want to be the one to judge.

I'm barely qualified to judge myself, let alone anyone else.

Gives me a whole new apprecation for all the 'Your Honours' out there. Even though the criminal justice (???) system here can be quite the inept, pathetic, dangerous joke.

The conditions which created Homolka still exist in society, and another like her could be spawned. Whether the legal system has learned any lessons remain to be seen.

Well it looks like Ontario cops have learned up a lot anyway, especially in how to handle inter-jurisdicational sexual assault investigations.


The investigation into the Scarborough Rapist in Toronto and the Green Ribbon Task Force in Niagara Region was dubbed one of the most notorious sexual assault cases in Canadian history.... There were a number of questions about the investigations raised during the subsequent trials. The questions were directed towards the investigative process and the possibility that Paul Bernardo should have been identified sooner.


POSSIBILITY???? The police had received complaints and tips, had a composite sketch of Bernardo, even collected DNA samples from him early as 1987, while they were investigating the Scarborough Rapist. Those DNA samples collected dust in the forensic labs until 1993. WIth better communication and information-sharing between the police departments - and a forensic lab system that functioned properly - perhaps a couple dozen people would not have raped.

And those three beautiful young girls would have had the chance to grow up. If policing in Ontario has improved at all since, it's due to their suffering and deaths. I suppose we could see if as their legacy.

There is something truely wrong when we cannot find the strength to cull such vileness from our society... no matter how vile such culling is.

I agree. Maybe what's 'wrong' is not so much in how we handle the individual offenders. People like Karla and Paul are just the symptoms of the 'disease'. The disease is a social one. It reveals itelf in the prevailing cultural norms which glorify violence and commercialize/exploit/degrade human sexuality in general, and women in particular. This sickness will be with us until those norms change, IMHO. And I'm not holding my breath for that fine day. There's WAY tooo much crapital to be made selling sex and violence, after all.

I think this is why animals are never found to engage in such sadistic, perverse behavior. Only humans are capable of cultivating such debilitating 'social diseases'.

THANK GOD.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 01:55 PM

" The disease is a social one."

Bullshit... this has nothing to do with society! This has to do with a couple of twisted evil sadistic fucks who need to be put down...

"cultural norms which glorify violence and commercialize/exploit/degrade human sexuality in general"
What a colossal load of crap... You're saying the the movies fault.. or it's TVs fault... or rap/rock music... and that's a load of bull... It's the fault of Paul and Karla... plain and simple...

"animals are never found to engage in such sadistic behaviour"
Umm... ya... they are... just not for very long... because when one animal in a 'tribe' or 'herd' or pod' goes nuts and starts acting anti-social, the others in that group turn on it and KILL it for the good of the WHOLE group...

Humans are the only one arrogant enough to think they DON'T have to do the same... that we can live outside of nature... and we're wrong...

"THANK GOD"
There is no 'god'... it's up to us....

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 02:14 PM

We have heard very little about her childhood. We do know that part of her defence was spousal abuse. I don't know whether to believe that or not but apparently her latest boyfriend killed his girlfriend. There is something about her that makes her seek abusive and controlling men. She will probably die at the hands of a lover.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 02:20 PM

"There is something about her that makes her seek abusive and controlling men."

An there was something about Paul that made him seek out a controlling and abusive woman.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 03:01 PM

Yes, thats right, brucie. Thats why her new boyfriend and subsequent boyfriends will probably be psychos.

I'd still like to know more about her childhood. I wonder about her profile in school. You don't hear anything about that. People don't generally turn ugly overnight.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 03:09 PM

What does her childhood matter a tinkers-cuss? Seems to want to lead to more pussy-ass, "It's something elses fault" thinking...

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 03:27 PM

Well dianavan, if you've got Quick Time player heeeeere's Karla: up close, personal and soon-to-be-released - Deadly or not.

The prison psychiatrist who testified at the Quebec hearing stated that not once in her 12 years of 'therapy' has Karla ever answered questions, spoken directly of or revealed anything about what happened, about her role in those rapes and deaths. This means she's received no real 'therapy' at all, no matter how many sessions she attended. For any kind of therapy to work, the person must first at least be willing to acknowledge, face and speak about the problem(s).

The fact that she was a 'model prisoner' doesn't bode well for the public either. The Quebec court's restrictions are only binding for 12 months. If she continues her typically 'good behavior', and if public interest in the case drops off (as it will, eventually) well don't look now but *coming soon* to a neighbourhood near YOU ....

A couple months before Kristen French disappeared, a 17-yr old local girl - Cindy Halliday - went missing. She was last seen at the gas station a 5 minute walk from my house, hitch-hiking. A few months later, the decomposed fragments of her bones and body and her ski jacket were found in a forested area about 2 miles away. With all the uproar going on over the Scarborough Rapes and disappearances of the girls in Niagara Region at the time, Cindy Halliday was back-page news. The local police posted a reward, even tried to pin it on Bernardo at one time - but her killer has never been found.

And Cindy, who had no family except her ailing mother, has pretty well been forgotten - except for the few of us who live so close by I doubt we'll ever forget. There's been nothing in the news about her for years, and I searched the missing children / unsolved murder sites for quite a while yesterday.   

Nada.

I do hope Karla never benefits from such a "falling out" of the public eye.


because when one animal in a 'tribe' or 'herd' or pod' goes nuts and starts acting anti-social, the others in that group turn on it and KILL it for the good of the WHOLE group...

this is true

Humans are the only one arrogant enough to think they DON'T have to do the same... that we can live outside of nature... and we're wrong...

Well, with all due respect for the laws of Nature, humans are supposed to have a few more 'parts' than animals. Which we're probably best off using.

So we don't look so barbaric, at least.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 03:37 PM

Clinton Hammond - Knowing about childhood experiences helps to understand the patterns of depravity. It is not a means of blaming someone else but it can lead to early identification of children who are at risk of becoming criminals. It informs parents and it informs teachers and counsellors. I doubt if Karla was born this way. Something must have happened for her to develop such an indifference to human suffering.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 03:50 PM

daylia - according to the movie, she just wanted to make Paul happy!

Thats really stretching it but I think but you'd be surprised at how many wives think that their job is to make their husbands happy. How many wives think that they must do everything possible to save their marriage? Once she was involved with one murder, he could threaten her repeatedly. That still doesn't account for her indifference to the lives of the victims. It also does not account for her willingness to enter into another relationship with an abusive man.

They should not have let her out considering her refusal to take any responsibility for the crimes or admit her own involvement. She is definitely one to watch. I'm sure we will hear about her again in a few years. She is very, very sick and I can't help but wonder how she got that way. Were there no warning signs?

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 04:40 PM

"I doubt if Karla was born this way."

I don't think it matters if she was, or if she 'became' this way over time... The important thing is she IS this way...

"Were there no warning signs?"
Like every other situation, only in hindsight...

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 04:41 PM

"humans are supposed to have a few more 'parts' than animals"

Says who?

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 05:21 PM

"...according to the movie..." WHAT? There was a movie? Oh well, Clinton... get that gun ready. Apparently, there are a number of shootings that should take place. Seriously? Some sick bunch of scum made a movie about this? That's damn close to being just as sick as these two vermin.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 05:59 PM

gnu, the movie "Deadly" is due to be released this fall. The trailer is at the link I regret now that I posted above. THere's news articles about the protests and outrage.

Unless all the profits gleaned from that film are awarded to the families of the victims and their causes, that movie is just another symptom of the same 'social disease' I've mentioned.

Just another sickening example of how sex and violence are crapitalized all over in Western culture ... and how it's most vulnerable and powerless members pay the horrible price.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 06:06 PM

Oops forgot the link - there's articles about the protest/outrage over the release of the movie Deadly here.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 06:22 PM

Might a chap South Of Border ask what y'all are talking about?

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Jean Paul Gerbet
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 06:45 PM

Hey you sactimonious people, Karla served her full sentence and is entitled to get on with her life without all of you and the media sticking your noses in her business.

I think you're all just jealous because there is nobody that looks sexier than her.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 07:02 PM

Yup. She's a babe, JP. Cute as a button and built like a brick shithouse. However, as far as deserving to get on with her life, there are some others who deserve that as well... her victims.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 07:08 PM

Jean Paul, you've obviously never seen Little Hawk in his bathers.

With the little gold stripes.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 07:21 PM

LH in his bathers?? 'E's alright, but I likes me girls wit' a little meat on the bones. Speakin' o' lovelies, where is LH? Off chasin a wee bit o' fluff again the weekend, eh? "Smitten" was the phrase used in anudder thread. Just remember there, LH, as said in the "quotes" thread, "You're never too old to do somethging stupid." Just hope you are wise enough not to get "caught".

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 09:00 PM

Jean Paul Gerbet,

You go get shacked up with her then. And try to get a good night's sleep.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 06:11 AM

Hey hang on there brucie - granted, he's kinda cute (scroll down to the third picture) Gotta head a bit like a bullet, but that kinda suits her. Clinton will appreciate it, anyway.

But he's in jail for killing his pretty young girlfriend in 1999 - besides, he's not even Canadian.

I dunno.

Should we trust him with our Karla?

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 06:47 AM

dianavan - here's an article, courtesy of the FBI, that you might find helpful if you want a better understanding of the development of a mind like Karla's ... Compliant Victims of the Sexual Sadist.

From what I've read, there was nothing remarkable about Karla's childhood. She was from a 'normal' family, no childhood abuse or failing grades or social difficulties. She met Paul when she was only 17, when he'd just begun his rampages as the Scarborough Rapist; and the story is that unlike his previous girlfriends - most of whom left him, and filed complaints to police about his stalking and brutality - Karla enjoyed the brutality and encouraged it.

There's some who maintain that without her influence, Paul may never have graduated from 'garden variety rapist' to serial killer. But, who's to say??

I've found detailed accounts of Bernardo's childhood. Again, he was a 'model child' until he was about 16, when he had what psychiatrists call a 'key event'. His mother told him he was illegitimate, and called him a 'bastard'. Apparently that set him off for a lifetime of hating and brutalizing all women.

But you know, somehow that just doesn't cut it with me. So your parents called you a nasty name in a heated moment - that means you have to go off and kill people? I remember my dad and I fighting once, when I was about 14. He yelled at me "WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? GOD? OR JUST LITTLE JESUS???"

I said "Little Jesus?"   Well, he lost it temporarily, hauled off and hit me.

Sheesh, I think I should sue at this point. And why I didn't stomp off to torture and kill every man I saw after that, I don't know.

Maybe I was saved by all the Mozart I practiced or something.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: GUEST,Karen
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 09:04 PM

Hey! Ya know what I had a really psychotic thought. What if I find myself sitting in a movie theater watching "DEADLY" beside Karla! I honestly don!t know what I would do.Most likely move. But if I was unable to contain my utter repulsive feeling's toward her I might be asked to leave the theater for verbally harassing her! Having said that I plan to avoid this situation from occuring, by not attending. With all due respect to the families of all the young woman who have been victim!s of Paul!s or both he and Karla. However If 90% of the profits go to a victim assistance fund I WILL make a donation. Is anyone else going to buoycot this?

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Troll
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 12:57 AM

By refusing to make a decision on how to deal with the monsters that crop up in society from time to time, we perpetuate their reappearance.

Because we don't want the decision to be on our conscience, even privately, we tell our lawmakers to be lenient, to go easy. We tell ourselves that they are sick, that it's not their fault, that society failed them. Of course, when WE mess up,...well, the same thing has to apply doesn't it. It's not OUR fault either.

She should'nt be executed because she's sick and can't help it?

Then neither should we execute a rabid dog.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 01:14 AM

Karla was given a light sentence because of a plea bargain, not because she was sick or that society failed her.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 02:23 AM

Ya.. but she's sick...

and society failed the VICTIMS by not hanging this waste of skin when we had the chance.....

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 07:50 AM

Karen... yup.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 09:25 AM

Yes - boycott the movie, and don't allow her to EVER disappear from public scrutiny. That's about all anyone can do at this point. If you'd like an opportunity to air any latent grievances and sign a petition to Reopen the Deal with the Devil - click there.

It's probably a waste of time though. I doubt the gov't would ever agree to spending more millions re-trying her - besides, it's against the law here to try a person twice for the same offence(s), isn't it? Unless (she says hopefully!) they could charge her with something totally different - like maybe with what she actually DID??? (kidnapping, forcible confinement, torture, aggravated sexual assualt, murder, committing an indignity to a human body etc).   

The level of hatred and venom in some of the replies at that link is almost as sickening as the atrocious crimes she committed. I'm so sorry to see it, even though it IS understandable. Maybe Karla's most hideous legacy will be that she managed to transform us into a nation of murderers, wallowing in our hatred and urges for revenge?   I do hope not ...

Thank you, Ontario, for releasing this henious child killer into my lovely city. Words cannot describe the visceral hatred and revulsion that I and most Canadians have for this demented violent and narcissistic child rapist. A more revolting human (and I use the term VERY loosely) I have never come accross in all my life...

Now that I think about, Karla does have something to contribute to society. How bout writing a "How To" book, Karla? Here are some recommended titles:

"The Idiots Guide to Drugging and Raping Schoolgirls" By Karla Homolka......or perhaps:

"How to Perform Cunnilingus on Your Unconscious Sister" by Karla Homolka

Actually Karla won't have a chance to write a book and get rich off her depraved crimes because she will be hunted down and will hopefully suffer a more hideous death than she imposed on any of her victims. I can hardley wait to spit on her grave.


And it's hard to believe ANYONE could think this way ...


how dare you people question the justice system.. saying it let us down. you people sicken me ... You can't blame the crown, they did the right thing at that time, without the tapes, and without Karla's testimony they could have both walked...

I am not justifying her actions, that bitch deserves worse than she got, but I support the crown and the decision they made.

Therefore i think that those of you who think the justice system failed us, you should be deported, you've disgraced this great nation.


??!!??

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 01:34 PM

daylia - Its equally hard to believe that you would pass along such negative words and thoughts. A link would have worked much better.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 02:44 PM

Well, the link is there, GUEST. ANd maybe you're right - it might have been more 'socially responsible' (?) to leave it at that.

This case can bring out the worst - and therefore also the best - in all of us, it seems.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: GUEST,Re: Cindy Halliday
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 08:58 PM

I remember Cindy...
I knew Cindy. She may be forgotten to the media, but she will never be for me. She used to live in the same community as me (elmvale area)when I was a girl. I remember seeing her at the local store often, I remember her raspy voice and sense of humour. I remember her long brown hair and even her wearing ski jackets. We had this program in public school where the older kids would read with the younger kids called, 'reading buddy's'. Cindy read with my best friend.
The media may forget, and her killer may still be out there, but I will not forget her. People need to honour her and the police need to stay committed to solving her murder. She was young, free and didnt deserve to die. It breaks my heart thinking of what she might have went through. When I see her memory in my head, it breaks my heart that something so horrible ended up being her fate. I will remember her laughing, and I pray for her mother and her friends. Never forget Cindy!

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 09:37 PM

Thank you, GUEST, so much. Her remains were found in the forest near the hiking trails where I used to go running, alone, several times a week. I still use those trails. And every time I do, I remember.

I never knew Cindy personally, but I will never forget her. And there's a part of me that hopes her killer WAS Bernardo. So I'd know he's put away for good.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 08:50 AM

Well, today's the day she might walk. And she's been yanking away at our great Canadian heartstrings because, apparently, we've done nothing to "safeguard her security".

"As far as I know, nothing has been done to safeguard my security after my release from prison, and the thought of being relentlessly pursued, hunted down and followed when I won't have any protection makes me fear for my life," she wrote.

"I believe some people wish to do the public a favour by killing me"...

In her affidavit, Homolka said the crimes she committed generated feelings of hate, horror, anger and vengeance, and media coverage has fed those sentiments.

"These feelings have been fed and made worse over the years by the national and international press as well as internet sites around the world."

She said she wants to get on with court-ordered therapy and that that would be impossible if she has to spend the rest of her life managing what she calls the "media circus".

Interesting .... but I refreshed this thread not to play "reporter" for you all (I'm sure you don't need it!), but to say that if you have any opinions, grievances etc you'd like to express about this, please post them here, on the CBC's "viewpoint and analysis" page rather than at the free-for-all "Reopen the Deal with the Devil" link above.

Your comments are more likely to reach a sober, intelligent audience that way. If I could delete the offensive quotes I posted from the other site, I would.   :-(    Wouldja please, JoeClones???

And for GUEST Re:Cindy Halliday ... If it's any consolation, I spoke with a few locals "in the know" last night about Cindy. They told me the cops do know who her killer is, and that he'll never be found - because he is dead.

Please log in and PM me if you want to hear the whole (disgusting) story. I don't know whether I believe it or not, but it DOES, most unfortunately, ring true.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: GUEST,gnu
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 11:44 AM

Yesterday, the judge said NO privacy protection. Police WILL inform the public of her whereabouts and the press can do whatever they want.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 11:09 AM

Good! And from that CBC Viewpoints page ...

"Karla Homolka should be afraid. She should taste that fear, the fear Kristen, Leslie and Tammy tasted, and she should taste it every moment she is alive."

— Pam Shaw | Delta, British Columbia"


Yes. And add to that the fear and horror the entire population of Southern/Central Ontario lived with every day of their lives, for years, while she and Paul were on the loose .... well, all I can say is poor POOR mistreated, helpless little Karma Homolka ...

oops I guess that's Karma Teale ...

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 10:35 AM

JAYSUS... Bernardo's lawyer just dropped a bombshell. The scumbag says she killed Leslie Mahaffy. (I know, I know. Go ahead. If you must.)

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 10:38 AM

I hope someone kidnappes her, and puts her through the same death she helped put those other girls through....

And I hope THEY get away with it...

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: GUEST,still heartsick
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 01:00 PM

Sympathy for the Devil
(or, a Parody for Karla)

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a con of luck and fame
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole Canada's peace and faith
And I was 'round when your sweet young girls
Tasted terror, shame and pain
Made damn sure Bernardo
Washed his hands and sealed his fate

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

I stuck around St Catherines
When I saw it was a time for a change
Raped some kids, killed my baby sis
I smiled as they screamed in vain
We rode in style
Held a marriage rank
While the country raged
And the bodies stank

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah

I watched with glee
While the powers that be
Fought for months and years
O'er the Deal they made
I shouted out,
Who killed the innocents?
When after all
It was you and me

Let me please introduce myself
I'm a con of luck and fame
And I lay traps for teenagers
Who get killed before they reach sixteen.

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's confusing you
Is just the nature of my game

Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me Karma Teale
'cause I'm in need of some restraint

So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your kids to waste,
um yeah

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down
Woo, who
Oh yeah, get on down
Oh yeah
Oh yeah!

Tell me baby, what's my name
Tell me honey, can ya guess my name
Tell me baby, what's my name
I tell you one time,
You're to blame

Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who..

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 01:04 PM

I saw her interview in French. She was very convincing! A good little actress but very much in need of a good pschologist and extensive therapy. She is totally in danger of forming another unhealthy and possibly criminal relationship.

I agree that she has fooled the courts but I do not agree with vigilante actions. Unfortunately, there are enough 'nut balls' out there that if the media continues to hound her, I'm sure she will end up dead. If she does, the media are certainly to blame.

She was right when she said she doesn't think she is entitled to happiness. She will be lucky to have any kind of life at all.

The only soft spot I have for her was that she was so young when the crimes were committed. I do think that 12 years in the slammer might make you think before committing another crime. Lets face it, she is now older and hopefully, wiser.

Bottom line is she committed the crime and has done the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Mooh
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 01:51 PM

dianavan...She wasn't THAT young when she committed the crimes...old enough to know it was wrong, to cover up, and to set in motion a scheme of denial, betrayal, and deal making that continues still.

I saw parts of the interview, understood a little of the French (enough to know it corresponded okay with the subtitles), and I am not convinced she's not acting, conning, and insincere. It just smells like a continuation of the crime.

She said she hasn't yet forgiven herself. Could it be that it's because she feels no responsibility?

She's the Boogieman my kids fear.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 01:53 PM

I fear for your kids too Mooh... So much that I'd drop her like a pole-axed steer without a moments hesitation

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 02:05 PM

Clinton, can you explain why the things you propose are less heinous than the things she did?

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 02:10 PM

If you need that explained it's probably not worth the effort to type it... So I'll put it as simply as I can...

Ask any surgeon... they'll tell you that to heal, you very often gotta cut...

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: GUEST,*daylia*
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 02:11 PM

The only soft spot I have for her was that she was so young when the crimes were committed.

She is lying when she claims she was not an adult; only 17 when those horrible events occurred. Fact is, she was 17 in 1987, when she met Bernardo. Tammy died in 1990, Leslie in 1991, and Kristen in 1992. You figure it out!

Is this just another classic example of her deceitfulness; her not-so-clever attempts to manipulate the public and the press? Or maybe she just didn't have enough time in the slammer to improve her math skills?

Poor thing!

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 02:17 PM

So, I just find a surgeon, ask him/her why your proposal is less heinous than Karla's crimes and he/she will tell me "that to heal, you very often gotta cut... "

Oh dear, I don't know any surgeons. What am I to think now?

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: GUEST,*daylia*
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 02:36 PM

So, I just find a surgeon, ask him/her why your proposal is less heinous than Karla's crimes and he/she will tell me "that to heal, you very often gotta cut... "

You can hack away at the symptoms till the cows come home, and hey - it might even gain yourself some temporary relief! Just be sure to keep a good supply of scalpels on hand, sharpened and primed for action - because until the cause of the "disease" is acknowledged and finally remedied, you'll most likely be hacking away at more and more of this type of 'patient' every year.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 03:09 PM

It seems that Bernardo has other things to say now. It will be interesting to see what comes out now. I still think that Bernardo was probably responsible for Elizabeth Bain's murder too. The timing was right, it was about fifteen minutes from his home. The boyfriend (Baltovich?) just never seemed right to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: gnu
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 06:13 PM

Just in.... Kelly Ellard gets paroled in seven years??? What the fuck is going on? This was a BRUTAL racial killing!! She got life... 20 years, and, if she serves 1/3 with good behaviour, she gets out (hey, it's Canada) ... in LESS THAN SEVEN YEARS.... SOB.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 06:59 PM

Well gnu, if it makes you feel any better, the Hell's Angels were finally declared a "criminal organization" in a Canadian court of law last Friday. Happened right here in Barrie, the day before the Live 8 concert.   Because of this, any "Angel" convicted of a criminal offence now gets another 14 years automatically added to their sentence.

Took 'em long enough to do the obvious, but hey ... at least the courts are seen to be doing something "right" for a change! At least imo ...not that i have anything against an awesome Harley mind you!

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: gnu
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:15 PM

Hey... we had the "Thirteeth Tribe" and a bunch of others. We got one now called Baccus. For the most part, they are not too bad, but they do recruit young criminals and they run the strip clubs and underground gamblimg here. I don't know what else they are into but they do this shit under the "authority" of the Angels. I don't go to the strip clubs, but I am told ALL of the girls have "the rose", so there it is.

The SOB's have a strip club a spit from the Moncton High School... a spit!!! from a high school!!!! If it was up to me, I'd have a bunch of lads from Gagetown, the largest military base in the Commonwealth, in NB, arrive in the middle of the night with fixed bayonets and run the fuckers out. From the strip clubs and the bike club.

Don' get me wrong... I likes naked women... but not pimps.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: GUEST,phantom
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:30 PM

gnu, how would you know that you "like naked women".

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:00 PM

I am relieved that Jerry Lewis was not born a Canadian. That's all I have to say about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: gnu
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:38 PM

Dearest Phantom... first, let me congratulate you on your excellent use of the "pun". Posting as GUEST and Phantom is quite an accomplishment for you, I am sure. And, your modesty, as demonstrated by remaining a non-entity shows your intentions as truely for humour. In a way, I admire that. Or, perhaps, you have no balls.

However, I must say that your question smacks of, well, "nasty". Are you calling my "manhood" into doubt? I cannot conjecture as to why. Perhaps you could elaborate?

Truely, the GUEST posting by the name Phantom was okay... well, pretty good. But, then, the rest of your post fell flaccid. I know who you are. Fuck off ShitHead.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Jimmy C
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:38 PM

She is a cunning, conniving con artist. I guarantee that within a month to about 6 months she will be wearing horn rimmed glasses, be a brunette and will be out partying up and down St, Catherines street. She probaly won't break the law anytime soon but she will be up and about, leading a normal life as soon as she thinks she is safe with her new appearance, and possibly new identity. She should have been locked up and forgotten about.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: John Hardly
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:08 AM

"Clinton, can you explain why the things you propose are less heinous than the things she did?"

wow.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:19 AM

Well, if I was her (thankfully, I'm not!) I would definitely be thinking in terms of "leading a normal life as soon as she thinks she is safe with her new appearance, and possibly new identity".

That would be the sensible thing to do, wouldn't it?

On the other hand, one could go for the bizarre celebrity freak show routine, move to Hollywood, and earn big bucks appearing on TV interview shows...if one really had a whole lot of nerve. And some good professional bodyguards.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:45 AM

Well, if I was her (thankfully, I'm not!)...

Ditto LH, and yet .... according to the spiritual traditions we both embrace, in truth she is only "another one of me".

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:56 AM

That's true, Daylia, at the soul level. What I meant was, I'm not her outer personality/ego/body/mind. But you know that...

I wonder what Rosie DiManno (famous Toronto Star Columnist) has to say about it? Well, I think I know. ;-) Rosie won't be satisfied until Karla Homolka is burnt at the stake, drawn and quartered, shot, eviscerated, and tossed into a pit of rabid shrews...all at once, if possible. I think she must remind Rosie of herself in a past incarnation or something like that...

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:34 AM

Rosie won't be satisfied until Karla Homolka is burnt at the stake, drawn and quartered, shot, eviscerated, and tossed into a pit of rabid shrews...all at once, if possible.

Hmmm. I think what I just posted on a related thread here fits in with what you've said just perfectly.

Is there any way to combine these 2 threads? WHy have 2 discussions going on simultaneously about the same subject?

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:42 AM

"Homolka was duplicitous, 12 years ago, when she struck her deal with the devil, bargaining her way to an absurdly lenient sentence in exchange for testifying against Bernardo. Never told the whole truth then, in a sworn affidavit over her signature. Not telling the unvarnished truth now, having crossed the threshold to freedom."

- Rosie DiManno, Toronto Star, July 5/05

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 12:02 PM

Hey day... I just put a redirect on the other thread. It might work if people read it.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 12:37 PM

I certainly did not see the videos and really have only a vague idea about the court proceedings and the crimes that were committed. Has it been suggested anywhere that perhaps there was a monetary reward for these heinous acts? From my understanding the porn industry pays top prices for 'snuff' videos. Was this part of their game?

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 01:22 PM

Thanks for that, gnu. According to the stats I posted on the other thread ...

California leads in the US with the most Serial Homicide cases that have occured. Texas, New York, Illinois, and Florida follow shortly behind.

Maine has the lowest occurence of serial murders - none. Hawaii, Montana, North Dakota, Delaware, and Vermont each have had only one case of a serial murder.

It's interesting to note that the 5 US States with the highest rates of serial killing still have the death penalty, while the States with the lowest incidences of this type of crime, (except for Montana, if memory serves) do not.

Could this be evidence that violence DOES beget more violence? At the very least, it shows that killing the killers is no solution in the long run.

dianavan, technically they were not 'snuff films. They did not depict the actual murders, only the assault and torture of at least 5 victims. If you really want to know more about this, there's a transcript online of the first video used as evidence at Bernardo's trial, quoted from Nick Pron's "Lethal Marriage". It's easy to find via Google, or PM me for the link if you like. The transcript is so horribly offensive I don't want to post it here.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:00 PM

PS dianavan, from what I've read about the case it's doubtful they intended to sell the videos. Bernardo was out of a job at the time, making a living smuggling cigarettes across the border - but if they'd intended to sell the videos they had more than enough time to do that before he finally turned them over to his lawyer, a few months after he was arrested.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:02 PM

Rosie DiManno and the Toronto Sun (newspaper) are both obsessed with Karla Homolka, in my opinion...but Rosie works for the Sun's competitor, the Toronto Star, a far superior newspaper, and she is openly contemptuous of the Sun (with good reason...it's Canada's stupidest newspaper). I find this a bit ironical. Sort of like a conflict of interest.

Society seems to have a psychological need for a few "bad" people to fixate hatred upon...whilst giving far less attention to tremendously more prosaic yet far more vital problems that affect millions of their fellow citizens on a daily basis. It's so easy to hate a "face", specially a really recognizable face. (I think it's mostly displaced guilt on some level, as well as nameless fears acting out.) It helps if the face to be hated is foreign-looking and with facial hair...like Saddam's, for instance. Karla is at a severe disadvantage in that department. Still, she does the best she can to engender extreme dislike, and can actually be hated for being relatively goodlooking, a variation on the more common theme of the ugly villain.

"Judge not lest ye shall be judged." (now who said that?)

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:05 PM

Sorry day. That is definitely a cart versus horse arguement at best. I agree that violence begets violence, but this adage does not apply to this situation... quite the opposite.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:08 PM

Are you sure, gnu?

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:16 PM

WEll gnu, maybe it is putting the cart before the horse. I'm just trying to understand why things like this happen in the first place, because I think that until we do the problem will only get worse. And to get a clear picture both sides of the coin, so to speak, must be considered. Even though it would probably be better for my own personal health if I just ignored it, and chose to "research" more pleasant things instead.

But then again, if EVERYONE just looked the other way ....

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:20 PM

Forget about "if". Everyone won't. It's that simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 07:12 AM

Yes LH, unless I can be shown otherwise. I cannot see the connection. How does an execution promote violence? (Question also for *daylia*.)

day... separate arguements... I have already agreed with you on one. It's the "begetting" I don't get.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 08:37 AM

wow gnu, do you REALLY want to start a discussion about the pros and cons of the death penalty? *sigh* That's such an old, convoluted and never-ending controversy, and there's a plethora of websites and scientific studies and great quotes from people much wiser than myself out there on either side of the debate. But for now, I'll just say this:

If you agree with and are committed to living your life by the adage "Thou shalt not kill", or "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" there's no need to ask such a question. I don't see how it's possible for the state to uphold the social ideals/values/principles of non-violence and the sanctity of human life with one hand, while legally knocking off it's problematic citizens with the other.

Actions speak so much louder than words! Watching the executions, the unwashed masses get the message that killing people is not only normal and ok but desirable; an acceptable means of achieving your ends sanctioned even by the nations highest courts and lawmakers. THis eats away at the moral underpinnings of democracy and further densensitizes the population to violence.

In a very real sense, Karla has become Canada's own very visible, living personification of "the Devil". And as this "Devil" stands before our eyes, taunting and disgusting and terrorizing and enraging us, the challenge is - will we give in to the temptation to sacrifice our highest principles and stoop to her level of consciousness? Will she succeed at driving us to hate, to rage, to violence and killing - to in fact the very same behaviors that made her a criminal in the first place?

I think this is the 'spiritual purpose' of a Bernardo or a Homolka - to give us all a 'workout', a most valuable and excellent opportunity to practice unconditional love even in the most difficult of circumstances, even while taking appropriate action to protect the public from her.

It's not the people who are easy to love that make us more loving, more forgiving - in other words, 'better' people! It's the ones who are the most difficult, the ones who seem to least deserve it. Just like you won't develop rock-hard biceps if all you lift is feathers. You gotta get under those iron weights....

I solve this dilemna real easily in my own mind, simply by imagining how those I admire most would react to someone like Karla. I remember the Dalai Lama and how he refused to sacrifice the principles of peace and non-violence even in the face of the horror, slaughter and tyranny inflicted on his innocent people by Communist China. I think of Nelson Mandela, of Martin Luther King, of Ghandi, of how Pope John Paul II met with and publicly forgave the person who tried to assassinate him back in 1981. I think of how Mother Teresa visited the death row inmates in a California prison, and told the guards "Whatever you do to these men, you do to God". And, you know, somehow I just can't imagine Jesus hauling off and killing her, no matter what she did.

Works for me, anyway!

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 04:10 PM

Well, I almost did not read your entire post. When you asked, at the very start, - the FIRST sentence-, a question that had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the arguement at hand, and was kinda putting words in my mouth (don't want to argue... you read it again carefully and you'll see it) I thought, "Oh well, fuck it, I'll just go on." But, something made me read on. And I am glad I did.

Ya know what? My arguement still stands, BUT, your second last paragraph released all of the anger in me. Give the bitch another chance? Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Ghandi, Pope John Paul II, Mother Teresa... would give her another chance. I must agree.

That said, like I said, my arguement stills stands. However, it is moot because of the wisdom of that paragraph. I'll give her another chance. It is the right thing to do. I won't "kill her with my bare hands", even if I could get away with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 06:14 PM

You asked how executions promote violence, so I asked if you really wanted to discuss the pros and cons of the death penalty. I don't quite see how it's that far out in left field, but I'm really glad you'll pass on killing her with your bare hands now! This place just wouldn't be the same without you ... unless you got lucky like BDiBR...

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: GUEST,Canadian
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 08:35 PM

What are y'all gonna say when she kills again?

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 08:50 PM

I know what I would say if she did... but, she won't... Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Ghandi, Pope John Paul II, Mother Teresa... they all said she won't. So, there it is. Let bygones be bygones.

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 08:55 PM

they did?   ;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 09:23 PM

Well, it's implied, no? Or what?

Subject: RE: BS: Hey Canadians - are you relieved?
From: *daylia*
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 11:02 PM

That they'd be unlikely to kill or condemn her to death is all I meant to imply. Their possible opinions regarding her likelihood to reoffend hadn't occurred to me .... and hey, I just got called for putting words in somebody's mouth, so I better pass on putting opinions in anybody's head. Right now anyway. :~)

(Especially those particular heads!)