BS: On the subject of cardigans.

Subject: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 04:23 AM

Word Origins http://www.hellskitchen.com/inkwor3.htm

Cardigan
Why would I begin a hot summer issue with a sweater? Because it's a damn good story, that's why. Now pay attention.

James Thomas Brudenell (1797-1868), the Seventh Earl of Cardigan, was not only one of the most famous (and most bumbling) military leaders of the Crimean War, but also one of the most impeccably dressed. His less successful, but more legendary claim to fame is that he was the soldier who led the ill-fated Charge of the Light Brigade in 1854 in Balaclava. This famous blunder was the result of a miscommunication from Lord Raglan (commander of the British troops) down his chain of command, resulting in Cardigan and his "Noble six hundred" charging the Russian guns. Three hundred of the men were killed or injured. Brudenell returned unscathed.

Upon witnessing the charge, the French General Borquet made the famous comment "C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre." ("It is magnificent, but it is not war."). The charge was also immortalized in Tennyson's eponymous poem.


"...Their's not to make reply,
Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to do or die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred..."
In honor of his fleeting moment of courage (it is said that Brudenell was the first to reach the Russian lines), the knitted vest he wore to protect himself from the Crimean winter was named after him. Oddly, the collarless, three-button V-neck that we know as the cardigan today bears little resemblance to the original.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 04:33 AM

So do raglan sleeves also stem from this battle of the knitwear?

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 04:55 AM

Not to mention balaclavas.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: jacqui.c
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 08:15 AM

Most likely - there was an Earl of Raglan at the battle and I believe that the balaclava also took his name from headwear worn to combat the weather there, although I'm not sure where I heard that from.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 08:35 AM

Yes, Balaclavas and Raglans originated as makeshift clothing, an attempt to reduce the numbers of underequipped British soldiers freezing to death in the Russian winter. Many of them didn't even have tents.

Cardigan the Fearless (Balaclava)
was one of my father's favourite songs, sung with great chromatic flourishes.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 11:54 AM

Who knew?

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 11:59 AM

The balaclava was predated by the balaclava helmet. I would begin the word origin search there.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 11:59 AM

There were also Wellingtons - named after the Duke.

I wonder what garments would be named after modern military leaders?

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 12:00 PM

Sorry about the above post. Sounds snotty. Wasn't meant to.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 12:03 PM

And now I am sorry about this above post because it looks like it refers to Shambles' and it refers to mine above his.

Cross posted.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 12:06 PM

Don't forget the Jim Browne belt.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: rumanci
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 12:06 PM

don't get in a sweater about it brucie - if you pullover for a while it might make more sense
;-)

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Wesley S
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 01:23 PM

The solid color mens sport coat called a blazer was named after the coat that officers wore on the HMS Blazer. They used to have more buttons on the sleeve so that men wouldn't wipe their snotty noses on the material.

Does anyone here know which camel you can make a camel hair sport coat from ? A one hump { Dromedary } or a two hump { Bactrian } ?

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Charmion
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 02:52 PM

That's a Sam Browne belt, Scaramouche.

The blazer was originally a boating club jacket made of garishly striped material. It was essential recreational wear at Oxford and Cambridge, whence it spread to the British idling classes during the 1860s, 70s and 80s, when rowing was a popular pastime and competitve sport. The blazer evolved into today's dark-blue sports jacket (with or without embroidered club badge on the breast pocket) during the reign of Edwardian VII, when Britain and Germany were engaged in a frantic naval arms race and amateur yachtsmen caught the tide of fashion and started styling themselves after the Royal Navy.

The three buttons on the cuff thing alludes to the manners and discipline of midshipmen in the British and Commonwealth navies, but that's mere folk etymology; the buttons actually indicated a warrant officer in the Royal Navy -- that is, a sailing master or senior artisan. This group included midshipmen qualified as master's mates.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 02:58 PM

OOPS. Yes, what a goof.
He did not however invent it becuase he lost an arm.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Jim McLean
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 04:40 PM

A Policeman spotted a lady knitting as she drove down the motorway. "Pullover," he shouted. "No, it's a cardigan," she replied. (sorry!!)

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 04:44 PM

:)

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 04:44 PM

Cardigans are nice dogs! The Corgi with a tail!

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: number 6
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 06:33 PM

I should mention that Cardigans are nicely accentuated by the wearing of sandals and socks.

Now .. back to the purpose of my post in relation to the thread:

The Davie Crockett Coonskin Hat.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 12:58 AM

number 6 - If you want a coonskin hat, you can shoot the mother racoon and her 3 kits that were in my backyard yesterday. Yes, they are cute but they are mean.

BTW - Where did the term, 'toque' originate? Maybe its spelled, touque. I know its French but its very common in Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: sixtieschick
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 01:06 AM

Toque, n. To toque, v. (orig. Haight-Ashbury, circa 1963). Pertaining to heads.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 01:45 AM

In 1955 the Army issued me an Ike jacket. That was in the old 'Brown Boot' army.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 03:41 AM

And when did cravats become Ascots?

Mention 'an ascot' to most Brits of a certain age and they'll think of a rather dodgy sort of water heater for the bathroom. Why would you wear that round your neck?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 03:45 AM

Come to think of it, why would you wear a cravat or tie round your neck?
Cravats of course were adopted from the scarves worn by Croat troops around 1700.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 03:59 AM

Not to mention Valor, Liz. Esso Blue or Aladdin Pink? And the Ascot was in the kitchen, as Granny didn't have a bathroom. The bath hung on a nail in the back yard.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 05:22 AM

My late father served in the Duke Of Wellingtons Regiment, during my own army days the Dukes were known to all as the ' sheep shaggers '

eric

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 06:08 AM

Yorkshiremen?

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 08:03 AM

Correct.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 08:57 AM

Not named after a military leader, but a beautiful lady: the life vest was called Mae West, because of the bulges before the thorax.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Charmion
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 02:03 PM

Dianavan, you ask about that ubiquitous Canadian item of winter headgear, the toque (pronounced "tuque" in Canada). "Toque" is an old French word for a snug, brimless cap or bonnet with a raised crown. Made of felt, it survives in the academic regalia of the University of Paris; in luxurious materials such as velvet it has gone in and out of ladies' fashion for the better part of 200 years.

In Canada, where everybody needs a toque by the age of six weeks, the knitted form quickly became dominant because it could be made in even the poorest of households. A normal item of wear for woodsmen, trappers and farmers in Quebec since Jacques Cartier bumped into the Gaspé peninsula, the toque became popular as adult wear in the rest of Canada (where it was known as a "stocking cap") late in the 19th century, as sportswear.

Outdoor sport was enormously important to Victorian Canadians, and winter activities such as snowshoeing, tobogganing, skating and skiing were particularly popular. Snowshoeing was a healthy group activity that brought young men and women together in a socially accepted way, and became fashionable even in darkest English Ontario when the Governors General of that time (a sporty lot) began to patronize the Quebec winter carnival. The well-dressed snowshoer wore a coureur de bois outfit complete with moccasins, Hudson Bay blanket coat, ceinture fléché and toque. Pictures of the vice-regal family on toboggans, snowshoes and skates (and dressed appropriately) appeared in all the Canadian illustrated papers, and people hungry for winter fun quickly equipped themselves to follow suit.

That's probably a lot more about toques than you really wanted to know.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 02:03 PM

Roger Whittaker.....a smile, a beard, a whistle, a folksong, a 12 string guitar, a cardigan.

No wonder he's a superstar.

I wish I could whistle like that...just to piss off the neighbours...

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: number 6
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 08:59 PM

Dianavan ... I could never get myself to kill some critter!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: JennieG
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 08:05 AM

A toque was also a ladies' high-crowned brimless hat in the early years of the 20th century - Queen Mary of England was very fond of them. in every photo of her that I have seen, she is wearing a toque, very high collar, and lots of pearls.

Cheers
JennieG who doesn't own a toque

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 03:34 PM

My middle name is Cardigan.

And although I do indeed perspire a lot in the summertime (so I'm a "Sweater") ~~{B^{P~ My Father took it from a mountain in Grafton County, New Hampshire which he climbed the day after I was born.

Obviously he wanted to get out of the house...

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: number 6
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 03:47 PM

can Plus Fours fall under this thread??

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 08:00 AM

some parents do odd things. When i was a teacher I taught several Albert Halls.

There was one poor sod whose name was Cart. And his parents called him Orson.

could have been worse cardigan - try not to be bitter.

Subject: RE: BS: On the subject of cardigans.
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 08:52 AM

Albert Hall! Poor sod.