Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?

Subject: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: Willie-O
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 10:31 AM

My favourite all-time rock guitar album is "Layla" by Derek and the Dominoes. I got a remixed CD of it recently and have been listening obsessively trying to hear which parts are played by Duane Allman and which by Clapton. (It's not that hard, necessarily, Allman plays mostly upper-register slide).

OK, two things:

1. I heard on a radio phone-in show recently that a secret, uncredited player on some of Layla was the British guitarist Jeff Beck.
   
2. An article on the Clapton-Allman collaboration specifies that they first met after the Layla sessions had started. (A funny story in itself: Clapton had been blown away by Allman's playing on a Wilson Pickett recording, and went to see the Brothers playing in Florida near the "Layla" studio. Duane Allman was in the middle of a solo and looked down to see Eric Freakin Clapton right in front of the stage, staring at him. Duane completely froze up and stopped dead, possibly for the only time in his career.) Specifically the article says Allman did not play on the first three cuts: "I Looked Away", "Bell-Bottom Blues", and "Keep On Growin".
   

I couldn't find any online source that said anything about Beck playing with the Dominoes, so I'm wondering,
WHO PLAYED THE SECOND GUITAR on these tracks? Anyone know if it was Beck?

I haven't listened to a lot of Jeff Beck, but the high guitar parts on those three tracks seem to fit with his style, very physical, dynamic playing, all over the Stratocaster, not a lot of effects.

Any rock guitar historians out there?

W-O

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 11:09 AM

I'm not a historian - just a fan. But it sounds like an urban legend to me. If there is any truth to it I'd love to hear all about it. I'll keep an eye on this thread.

Also - I've been told that Duane Allman only played four or five live shows with the Derek and the Dominos tour - and I saw one of them. It was in Tampa Florida. I hardly ever use the word transcendent about musical preformances but this was one of those rare shows. It was a cuttin' contest between two very talented musicians who were having a lot of fun trying to whip the other guy. Every time one of the two guitar players tore off a solo the other one would get a look on his face that said - "I'll show him". You could tell that Clapton and Allman were having a ton of fun. The other members - Bobby Whitlock, Carl Radle and Jim Gordon were kicking it up a notch too. Believe me - a good time was had by all. Easily one of the best rock and roll shows I've ever seen. Can ya tell ?

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: GUEST,Ento
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 06:47 AM

Rumour has it that Allman's playing was so bad (coked out of rich little head!)Clappo had to draft Beck in at the last minute to overdub - Beck being the only available that could emulate richcokeboy's style.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: Willie-O
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 08:51 AM

Now Ento's versin of events sounds like an urban legend to me! I believe Beck could have played on the album, but not to overdub Duane's parts. I wonder if producer/engineer Tom Dowd (died 1996) ever discussed this, he and Clapton would know.

Ento that's interesting but makes no sense whatsoever. Duane Allman was never scheduled to play on the Layla sessions. Clapton insisted that he join them in the studio after an all-night jam the first time they met--at the aforementioned Allmans concert. If his playing hadn't been as good as Clapton expected, he would have just been scrapped. And the mean-spirited "rich little cokeboy" apellation could have probably applied to any of them--this was 1970 after all, and Clapton's next major project was full-time heroin use. He's damn lucky to be an old rock star now instead of a dead legend.

The whole Derek and the Dominoes concept was Clapton's marketing experiment, as he tried to get away from the whole ridiculous "Clapton is God" rockstar adulation thing: make a great rock record WITHOUT Clapton's name on it (or any other rock icon) and see how it sold just on the basis of the incredible musicianship. (Jeff Beck certainly fits into that concept.) The result was that it sold rather poorly until the guitarist's identity was revealed later...and the critics didn't fall over each other with praise for "Derek" either. (I remember seeing racks and racks of "Layla" at my local record outlet back then, and thinking, well it can't be that good, nobody's buying it!)

Wesley, man you were lucky to catch that show. When was it? Duane died only a year after the Layla sessions which is why he didn't appear on the D & the D live album.

Still looking for sources on the Beck question. My source BTW was CBC radio, and it wasn't presented as a rumour--but as the correct answer to a giveaway-contest question.

W-O

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: woodsie
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 01:24 PM

I'm sure I saw an interview somewhere years ago where Clapton said that beck had overdubbed some guitar parts on layla. I always thought they were clapton's own parts, that he had been unhappy with. Mind you there is some right beckish upper register stuff there alright!

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 02:00 PM

Willie - I don't remember the exact date of the show that I saw but I can tell you that it was very close to the release date of the LP. And there was no real secret that Eric Clapton was on the record. I worked in a record store at the time and I still have the peel off sticker that listed the musicians on the record. The record jacket itself didn't list the performers but the sticker did. And it was very easy to see.

Also - from what I've heard - Jim Gordon the drummer is still in a mental institution. The voices in his head told him to kill his mother with a hammer - so he did.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: GUEST,Flintlock
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 01:41 AM

I had a drink with Jeff last night - he doesn't remember playing on that album - mind you he says that does not rule out the possibility that he may have. He says he doesn't remember much from that period as he was coked out of his rich little brain most of the time.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: GUEST,Flintlock
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 01:43 AM

Sorry about saying that.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: GUEST,Fullerton
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 03:43 AM

There are at least 5 guitar parts on the intro

First 3 guitars play the famous riff (diddle iddle iddle om)

1) Open position starting on the 5th string
2) 7th position
3) 10th position

then there is also..

4) power chords
5) barred chords

It was accurately transcribed in Guitar magazine a few years ago.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: Willie-O
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 04:50 AM

It sure is speculative. Except for the Jim-Gordon-killed-his-mom story, which is true.

Clearly Clapton was smitten with Duane Allman's playing, and while he might have been more critical of his own parts, it's hard to see why he would call in Jeff Beck to overdub or punch in parts of them...Clapton would do his own punch-ins just like I would. And Allman was a session musician--in the event that his lines(!) didn't come out right the first time, he'd nail them second time around. (And remember, "Layla" was recorded in Florida, Allman's home turf.) Try to imitate another player's tone and phrasing exactly--so exactly that you can drop a line into the middle of a solo--it's pretty damn hard. And Clapton and Beck both had (still have) very distinctive and different tones. No doubt Beck would be the more chameleonic of the two, but still...

Well I'm off to drive the bakery van so I guess I'll have another chance to listen...all the voices in my head are telling me GET OFF THE INTERNET AND GO TO WORK.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 07:10 AM

Just to throw a couple of names into the hat- Eric was tight with George Harrison at the time so it is possible he could have contributed some guitar parts uncredited due to legal considerations.Also, Eric was part of Delaney and Bonnie Bramletts band around this time so he could have called upon one of their numerous guitar virtuosos to chime in.I read the Clapton biography "Survivor" several years ago but unfortunately cannot remember whether this point is addressed. I may just have a look in the loft and see if I can find the book.

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 05:11 PM

I saw them at the Mayfair in Newcastle. I remember thinking how it would have been so much better minus Allman (personal thing, I don't care for 'Hawaiian noises' ... ) but there was no sign of Jeff Beck.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: GUEST,Know All
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 04:06 AM

Of course there wasn't any sign of Beck - read the thread! It suggests that Beck may or may not have contributed to the recording sessions.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: mindblaster
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:01 AM

It is definitely Beck on the Layla album. It was widely reported in the music press at the time. Still most of you cat people were too young then!

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: Sliding Down The Bannister At My Auntie's House
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 07:37 AM

Yeh, I heard it was Beck that plays on the first two Allman Brothers albums too!

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: cockney
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:33 AM

The original Welsh edition of the album actually credits Jeff Beck and also lists him co-writer on many songs. Duane Allman is only credited as "occasional tambourine"

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: Wesley S
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:34 AM

Mindblaster - I was a voracious reader of the music press at the time and I worked in a rather large record store. As a Clapton fan - and since the Allman Brothers were a local band to us - I read everything about them I could find. If it was "widely reported" that Jeff Beck played on the Dominos record I'm pretty durn sure I would have seen it. I'm still unconvinced. I will attempt to remain open minded however.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: woodsie
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 06:56 PM

Load of rubbish

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: mindblaster
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 06:58 PM

EC was a known racist at the time (Supported Enoch Powell) So I would suspect that he put Beck on the album in preference to a foreigner!

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 07:18 PM

I think Ento has his Allmans mixed up. Gregg's the one that could aptly have been called "richcokeboy" at one point in his career. "Layla" was cut when the Allman Brothers Band was still relatively new on the scene. I don't think "rich" could have been an apt description of anyone in the ABB until after Duane died.

And I'm also jealous of Wesley having seen Duane with the Dominoes. I saw 'em in Jacksonville but without Duane. Someone in the audience called out "Where's Duane Allman?" and Clapton said he was on the road with his own band. It would have been great since Duane was a local hero, having lived in Jacksonville and played in a local band before the ABB came together.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 07:30 PM

I was alive, well, and paying attention (very close attention) to blues and blues-rock at the time, and this is the first I've heard of Jeff Beck joining Eric and Duane on "Layla." Duane's slide-guitar "voice" is pretty obviously evident on most of the tracks.

I find it hard to give credence to a claim that any serious blues player could be a "racist," although I suppose a person could respect and befriend artists like BB King and John Lee Hooker while still having a low opinion of non-musician "everyday people" of the non-white persuasion. But I find it pretty laughable that "racism" would somehow explain a Brit's supposed distaste for any White Anglo-Saxon Protestant American ~ especially a Southern boy like Duane Allman!

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: mindblaster
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 04:01 AM

That's the menality mate. Clapton made a statement in either 1969 or 1970 supporting Enoch Powell - an MP who wanted to "send them back". This WAS widely reported in the press and Mr Clapp was slagged off for being a hypocrite stealing black music and making millions whilst inwardly not wanting them in England.

The Allmen were rich kids before succeeding as a band and duane was a reknowned cokehead Where is the proof "Anglo Saxon" ? The name Allman as far as I know is derivative of Jewish.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: woodsie
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 04:33 AM

Wrong Mindblaster it was 1976 see
In 1976 Clapton was the centre of controversy, and accusations of racism, when he spoke out against increasing immigration, during a concert in Birmingham. Clapton said that England had "become overcrowded", and implored the crowd to vote for Enoch Powell to stop Britain becoming "a black colony." The comments would directly motivate the foundation of Rock Against Racism. Despite the damage to his career and reputation caused, Clapton has always steadfastly refused to distance himself from the remarks and denied there was any contradiction between his political views and his career based on an essentially black musical form. At about this time, his name appeared on albums distributed in Japan as Eric Crapton, though this is probably a case of Engrish rather than innuendo. This comes fron here

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: woodsie
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 04:36 AM

He sapparently till holds these racist views see here

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: Willie-O
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 10:38 AM

Mindblaster hasn't got his facts straight.

1. The Allmans grew up in a lower middle class single parent family (their father was murdered when they were very young). I have no idea why anyone thinks otherwise--this is well-documented.

2. If Duane Allman had a coke problem, or was a regular user, it didn't seem to affect his playing ability, and he was hardly alone in taking in lots of pills in rock n roll circa 1970--what's your friggin point? If you don't like his playing just say so. Like most musical geniuses, he's not everyone's cup of tea.

3. Bee-Dubya has already corrected the dates of Clapton's racist outburst.

4. "The original Welsh edition of the album"--interesting concept, how Welsh was it? "Occasional tambourine"???? this is bizarre.

This Beck or Allman question seems to interest us grizzled old guitarphiles, but I'm disappointed that no one has cited any accessible documentation. Looks like a job for Snopes.com.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: mindblaster
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 11:33 AM

What's your point willie O' Apart from demonstrating that you can count from 1 to 4.

Lower middle class in american terms is friggin rich to the rest of us.

"musical geius" you must have lived in a hole for the last 40 years.


Clapton reacist OK - he made more than one comment. The one in 76 was during the start of the PC age.

Ha Ha got you on the Welsh version though!!!

Friggin get a life.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 12:45 PM

I doubt that the average lower middle class American can afford either a cocaine habit, OR the price of an average home in Britain, mb. As for the question about whether it's Duane or Jeff, it sure sounds like Duane, and it's one of the best albums released in the 70s no matter who played on it.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 02:24 AM

Surprised noone has took up the George Harrison connection as around that time he was experimenting with slide guitar styles as illustrated in his 1970 masterpiece "All Things Must Pass" which features a certain Eric Clapton on several tracks.Also his slide guitar work on Lennons "Imagine" album was tremendous.I still think Duane was "the man" in question though.As for Sir Eric being a "racist"?? Absolute claptrap! He has had several black girlfriends over the years and has worked with countless coloured folk and blues musicians.I think he was like many people around that time simply concerned about immigration as an issue on the political agenda and not singing "send the buggers back" because of skin colour or any inherent hatred of our ethnic minority brothers and sisters.As for supporting Enoch ? Maybe he was his dealer at the time?

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: Sliding Down The Bannister At My Auntie's House
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 09:55 PM

That's not harrison playing on "All Things" - it's Beck!

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 09:59 AM

And Jeff Beck played lead guitar on all of the Led Zepplin records - it's "common knowledge".

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: GUEST,Know all
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 09:32 AM

Wrong Wesley S!
Beck is a great guitarist and certainly not responsible for any of that pooh on led Z albums!!

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 09:46 AM

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Jeff Beck also played on ALL of Jeff Becks albums... Don't quote me on that though.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 06 - 06:07 AM

Wrong it was cliff richard playing ALL lead guitar on wired.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: GUEST,Deke Leonard
Date: 11 Feb 06 - 09:31 AM

That's right and did you know it was Bert Weedon that actually played all the Hendrix stuff!

He even toured with Jimi - hiding behind the stage curtain playing all that far out stuff, while jimi ponced about and took all the credit!

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: woodsie
Date: 21 May 06 - 06:06 PM

But seriously folks is Beck not great?

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: Kenneth Ingham
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 10:15 AM

Aye lads he is. Beck played ALL instruments on most of The Monkees stuff! Duane Allman was in fact a virtuoso tamborine player. He wrote the famous books "Tamborine in a day" "Three Chords On A Tamborine" and "Advanced Tamborine Techniques" these were published under the pen name Dan Alman, but are sadly out of print and nowadays change hands for enormous amounts of money.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 06:56 AM

Woodsie,

He is my favourite electric guitar player. An absolute master of tone. Some of his newer stuff is a little to techno for me, but it's still great to hear him play. I've seen him a few times, the last time was at Toronto's Massey Hall. Absolutely stunning performance.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 09:29 AM

I saw him in the late 60's and early 70's With Stewart/Wood then with Cozy Powell etc but the best was with Beck, Bogart & Appice. He is my fav guitarist but I don't think he ever found his niche in the music world. A great live performer. As a writer/singer he fails.His albums are pretty unimpressive. My fav is "wired" I have been listening to "blow by blow" recently and although the playing is absolutely superb, the overall sound of the album is at best ... MUZAK

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:27 PM

Woodsie,

I was a little too young to see him with Rod & Ronnie and B,B&A, but I did where out the Truth and B,B& A albums. I discovered him when Blow By Blow came out and then started to buy his earlier releases. I really enjoyed Blow by Blow and Wired.

I don't know if you have heard "Who Else?", very techno, but he does a live blues tune that may be the greatest live Electric blues track that I have heard. Brush With The Blues. I agree, you really need to experience him live.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: GUEST,woodsie
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 05:14 AM

Thanx I'll check that out!

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: Jeff Beck
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 10:46 AM

It's good to see that you old folkies like my stuff! Martin Carthy and Roy Harper are two of my favourite guitarists. Keep the music live guys!

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 03:00 PM

Deke Leonard !!!!!!! THE Deke Leonard ??? Hey Man.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: GUEST,woodsie
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 03:55 PM

Deke Leonard was great - Spunk Rock live at Greasy Truckers has to be one of the greatest guitar jams of all time.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: GUEST,Retro Jeanie
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 02:11 AM

I'll second that!

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: mindblaster
Date: 26 May 07 - 05:48 AM

I hear that Jed Beck has just been released from poison.

Subject: RE: Derek, Jeff, and the Dominoes?
From: mindblaster
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 03:04 AM

He has apparantly auditioned for the X factor