BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns

Subject: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 11:57 AM

It scares me to think that Shrub will now have a chance to nominate a Supreme Court Justice. But there you have it.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: MarkS
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 12:02 PM

Let the games begin.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 12:04 PM

it was inevitable - we had our chance to reject Bush and give a Democrat this (and maybe a couple more) appointments, but war & special interest groups handed it to Bush on a sliver platter.
Now we will have to live for years with the result. And you KNOW that Roe v. Wade will be the major litmus test, no matter what they pontificate about.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 12:29 PM

They started running hundreds of Republican commercials here last week that said "Who ever is appointed Justice, the Democrats will reject them!"

at the end there is something like...
Paid for by the concerned citizens for an up or down vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: GUEST,Nancy King at work
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 12:58 PM

Scary indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 12:59 PM

right...they are using the "straw man" error of logic to do a pre-emptive strike on the Democrats....

You notice how the ads didn't phrase it...
"We guarantee to offer only candidates that are so right-wing and conservative that the Democrats couldn't possibly approve of them, and will look silly trying to stave off the inevitable."

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 01:15 PM

I didn't think it would be her.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: harpgirl
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 01:23 PM

Reading this gave me a sinking feeling in my gut. Now I find it is true....I bet she is resigning in disgust over the state of justice in America. The official reason is her husband's alzheimer'r disease. It is a dark day in american history with many more to come.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: artbrooks
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 01:27 PM

The only (slightly) good thing about this is that Justice O'Connor is a moderately-conservative centrist, so the more liberal (I hate that word!) justices remain (at least for now) to balance the true conservatives.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Alba
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 01:36 PM

Agreed harpgirl
Be afraid, be very afraid America.
I do not usually allow negativity to enter my outlook. I am a glass half full kind of person.
Today my glass is empty!
This is honestly the first time I have felt very angry at those who voted Bush and his lot back in.
It is one of the biggest mistakes in American History and will be shown to be in the near future. In fact it is looking that way even before Supreme Court appointments are an issue.
Dark days ahead for this Country.
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 01:51 PM

as I posted in another thread, cartoonists often get uncomfortably near the truth

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 03:35 PM

Doing the inevitable cartoon ahead of time saves time on occaisions such as this.

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushjudges05.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 04:27 PM

May Peace Prevail.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 04:36 PM

I know nothing about this guy and he may just be blowing smoke, but I hope other Republicans agree with his last quote (my emphasis):

Senator Charles E. Grassley of Iowa, a senior Republican on the Judiciary Committee, said Justice O'Connor had served "with dignity and fairness." The senator said he hoped Mr. Bush's next nominee would be treated "with fairness and respect, including an up-or-down vote in the Senate."

Mr. Grassley's comments served as a reminder that Republicans have their own ideas about what puts a jurist outside the mainstream. "I'll be looking forward to hearing from a nominee who understands that the role of the courts is to interpret the law, not create the law," he said.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: DougR
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 01:17 AM

Do I hear squeeking, crumbling, loud noises, is the sky falling again?

Bill D. Give it up. Bush was elected because the majority of voters voted for him. If you want to delude yourself into thinking otherwise, which you post certainly hints at, so be it.

Bush will nominate a conservative for the post just as a liberal president would have appointed a liberal.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 01:50 AM

I gather it was this ladies casting vote that ended all the recounts and so declared GWB the winner of a flawed election. sounds like he'll miss her anyway!
G..

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 02:10 AM

She isn't "resigning," she's retiring, which gives a different spin to things. At least I think so. Her husband has been ill for some time now, she is 75 years old, and she has made the decision to retire to spend more time with him. She has been interesting while she has been on the court.

Today on NPR's All Things Considered Nina Totenberg recapped her career and had a lot of thoughtful insight, as usual.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Kaleea
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 03:21 AM

Justice O'Connor & her husband certainly deserve their retirement. Seems ironic to me that Reagan picked Justice O'Connor, & it's the republicans who seem to fuss about her the most; and also that her decisions usually coincide with the majority of Americans polled on those decisions.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 07:21 AM

Back to coat hanger abortions for the poor and that little vacation (wink, wink...) in Mexico fir the rich....

But seriously, aren't the law of avaerages with Bush on appointments? I mean like when it comes to the importantant ones he hasn't done very well so maybe he'll ge lucky????

(Are you nuts, Bobert???)

Nevermind...

Pass the vasoline...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: John P
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 07:49 AM

Wouldn't it be nice if the Republicans decided to be honorable statesmen and name a justice who will be acceptable to more than the extreme right wing? It seems like if you are seriously interested in governing the whole country you would put a moderate on the court. About half of us aren't conservative, and feel shut out of our government. And it would avoid a bloody confirmation battle.

What do you think the special interests would say, DougR? How about something like, "We put you in office, now you have to give us the judge we want!" Do you think there is any chance that President Bush will act in a way that is contrary to the wishes of the extreme right wing self-described Christians? Is there any chance he will fulfill his campaign promise to be a "uniter"?

John Peekstok

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: John Hardly
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 08:10 AM

EVEN IF Bush happens to nominate a true "strict constructionist" onto the court...

and EVEN IF she/he is not filibustered, and actually GETS appointed...

...there will be no fewer abortions performed in the US. Rest easy. You'll get to keep your abortions on demand. Nobody is going to take away your ability to birth control by death. If the count of abortions goes down it will only be because of more available, and willing use of contraceptives.

EVEN IF Roe v Wade was overturned (and it's not likely) it is not anywhere near a forgone conclusion that abortion would be made illegal. It only means that we would have to choose to make it legal (or illegal) by law instead of by judical order -- as it should have been all along.

And there is not sufficient will in the US to make abortion illegal. We enjoy our sex without consequence as well as our ability to keep certain races from overpopulating.

And as if that desire for racial population control and sex without consequence weren't enough -- it isn't liberal democrats that will make the difference in our democratic (voted) choice of abortion on demand. It is the old-school Republican -- the moderates that still make up a significant portion (if not majority) of the Republican party. They have no moral compunction against such population control -- hell, it just means fewer on the public dole. And it's their kids as much as anyone else's out copulatin' with their teenage mates and knocking and getting knocked up. There's no way they want access to abortion any more difficult.

Rest easy. The sky's not falling. You'll get to keep your abortions.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 10:52 AM

Rest easy because you think the momentum of the movement will overpower the inertia of those who want to drag everything back in time, stop equal access to this kind of medicine in its tracks? I don't think so. No one is going to be able to easily pass a law that says "abortion is now legal." Disabuse yourself of that in a hurry. Too many riteous folks out there screaming at the top of their lungs what everyone else should do with their lives, and threatening any politician who doesn't agree with them. Even if they are in the minority, they scare the hell out of politicians (at least, of politicians who want to keep their jobs).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: John Hardly
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 11:14 AM

...and they're not afraid of the "no" vote from the majority of Americans who want to maintain the luxury, the status quo of abortion? The votes of 100 screamers still adds up to less than the votes of 200 with a vested interest in keeping the status quo. You think the pro-abortion side will suddenly stop voting? You think that the multi-billion dollar abortion industry will suddenly stop lobbying?

I don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Frankham
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 02:28 PM

Ah Doug,

An error in fact.

"Bill D. Give it up. Bush was elected because the majority of voters voted for him."

The majority of voters did not vote for George Bush. He won because of the manipulation of the electoral college and voter fraud in Ohio. He won by a slim margin but the popular vote went for Kerry.

" If you want to delude yourself into thinking otherwise, which you post certainly hints at, so be it."

Delusion is relative. I think we've seen about enough of it in the White House.

"Bush will nominate a conservative for the post just as a liberal president would have appointed a liberal."

If this doesn't give the Democrats reason to get off of their butts,
nothing will.

The word "Conservative" has lost it's meaning. We are dealing with a radicalism on the reactionary Right not seen in our history.
Bush's appointments will be Radicals.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 02:34 PM

Hi Frank, you may be a veteran here but you're new to me, welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: John Hardly
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 10:02 AM

Old habits are hard to break. Gore won the popular vote (in 2000) but, no, Kerry did not win the popular vote in 2004.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 10:34 AM

Truth is whatever a politically correct person wants it to be.


Less than half is "most"

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 12:47 PM

give what up, Doug? Give up suggesting that Conservatives are trying to manipulate the system in ways that go beyond fair and equitable? Give up noticing that Bush considers both losing the popular vote and winning by a pretty small margin a "mandate"? Give up being appalled at stuff like those "pre-emptive strike" ads that suggest, before the fact, that anything the Democrats do is automatically biased and sneaky?.............Nope, I won't give up making sense and speaking the truth, thank you.

" Bush was elected because the majority of voters voted for him."....well, 'maybe' the 2nd time...*grin*............and even IF he did get a small but legal win, there's a huge unstated set of conditions buried in that phrase. MANY,MANY Republicans did not exactly vote FOR Bush as much as they voted against Kerry...or just simply voted for whoever was wearing the Republican hat. The polls today tell you quite few wish they had not.

I sure HOPE he doesn't push his strange concept of 'mandate' and try to ram thru some ultra-right judge this time...boy, talk about "interpretating the law, and not making it"!

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: John Hardly
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 01:11 PM

We NEVER qualify an election according to the "whys" of the public's vote. There is not questionaire on the ballot asking why you vote for a candidate -- and thus disqualifying an election because one was elected by a majority that didn't vote for the right reasons. Sheesh.

This is getting funny.

Donuel,

Frank's not only not new around here -- he is a folk icon. There are a few here who can say they knew this or that folk idol (like Bob Gibson, Hamilton Camp, the Weavers, etc). Unlike them, Frank is the kind of folk idol that THOSE (the gibsons, camps, seegers, etc) guys claim to know!

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 02:20 PM

The U.S. used to be the standard for human rights. The U.S. supreme court was once an honourable judiciary. These days will be remembered to be the dark ages of American history. When the rights of individuals are governed by the religious beliefs of a minority the U.S. becomes the equivalent to Iran.

What I cannot understand is how Republicans of all religions have allowed the Christian Fundamentalists to dictate their political beliefs. The Republican party was once concerned about the economy. Now they are letting religious ideology ruin the economy. Go figure. I thought that the Republicans were fiscally conservative?

Maybe it isn't America that is changing. Maybe its the nature of the Republican party that has changed. What will probably emerge is a very strong Democratic party or perhaps, a third party altogether. Certainly, many old style Republicans will not be able to condone government interference in every aspect of American life and an economy in ruin.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 03:07 PM

Just what we need, another lying incompetent like Thomas.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 03:55 PM

When the rights of individuals are governed by the religious beliefs of a minority the U.S. becomes the equivalent to Iran. THEN some other country can take it upon themselves to invade and liberate us in order to "restore" democracy. Mabe the shrub will hide out in a cave then!**bg**

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 05:53 PM

When the rights of individuals are governed by the religious beliefs of a minority the U.S. becomes the equivalent to Iran.

As I understand it in Iran it's the religious beliefs of a majority that matters.

But from this distance, you do seem to have quite a lot in common...

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: DougR
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 05:55 PM

John Peekstock: no, I don't think Bush will pick a moderate to please the moderates and the liberals in the country. The moderates and liberals did not elect them. The majority in the U. S. is composed of conservatives, not moderates and not liberals. That's why he, rather than Gore won the election. Those that elected him expect him to choose someone who will interperet laws, not make them. Making laws is the job of the legislative branch, not the judicial. I haven't heard any moderates or liberals decrying the fact that the judiciary has been too intent on making laws rather than interpreting the constitution, have you? The whole idea, John, is to change the direction of the court. If Bill Rhenquist resigns, guess what? Bush will appoint another conservative. Then the court will become a conservative court rather than the liberal one we have today. That's the goal.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 06:29 PM

I'm sure that in general people describing themsleves as "conservatives" in most countries would insist that they were "moderates", rather than taking pride in declaring that they were extreme in their views.

Isn't that true in the USA?

Surely the central tenet of any kind of "conservative", whether Republicans in the States, or old-fashioned Communists in Russia, is a distrust of change, and an insistance that any change has to be proved necessary before it is introduced.
.....................

Pretty well all political parties do tend to be controlled by people who do not actually reflect the people who vote for them too well. I think many people around the world take comfort from that thought, when they look at the current administration in the USA. I mean, it wouldn't be very pleasant to think that most Americans really were like that...

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 06:54 PM

That's a point I have been making in various discussions, McGrath, both on the 'Cat and at home. If we can get people like DougR and beardedbruce and various others on the Mudcat to acknowledge that what is currently in control is not conservatism but something far more disturbing than that, that should lead to examining what we do have.

Some of my best friends (ha! but true) are conservative in their outlook and their yearnings for the future. Being conservative to them indicates just what you said: Not to change things for the sake of change and to have a clear-eyed view of where an action will take us, to balance the budget, and pre-eminently, not to make war unnecessarily.

If I were a politician and listening to some of these old-time conservatives/Republicans, I would be seriously concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Alba
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 08:17 PM

Yes Ebbie I agree with you 100%...the problem is the most of the so called Conservatives on the Mudcat haven't a clue what is REALLY happening around them with regards to the actions of this Administration...Blind to the Truth.
If they did know REALLY just what their Vote has done to this Country there is a possibilty that they would feel ashamed. For that though one would need to care about America and ALL the people in it and one would also need to have a Global conscience. Something that the Bush Camp doesn't encourage.
I decided the other day, when this Thread started, directly after I had posted to it that I will not engage in any Political discussion with ANY pro Bush supporters on the Mudcat again. I have had it with their lame *uck Resident and Snarl Rove and the rest of the Conservatribes.

Chatting about this and that in the BS section and up in the Music bit, now that's different but Politically I oppose everything they support.                EVERY SINGLE THING
After reading their input to this thread I am now very sure that I have made the correct choice for myself.




Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 09:59 PM

The Taliban is winnin' RIGHT here in America....

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: John Hardly
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 10:15 PM

"The Taliban is winnin' RIGHT here in America...."

Yeah, looks like a little moderation is in order.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 10:23 PM

Thats right, Bobert. Eventually the conservatives will see that right wing Fundamentalists and Islamic Fundamentalists are not so far apart in their attitudes. They all think they are the most righteous and most able to rule.

If the aim of the Taliban was to divide America, I would say they have done a very good job of that. They understand divide and conquer as well as we do.

The U.S. admin. thought they could achieve the same thing by dividing Kurds, Sunnis and Shittes but they did not understand that the Iraqis are actually much smarter than that. When it comes to the Middle East, the invader is always the odd man out. Thus the insurgency.

In fact, if any country decided to invade the U.S. (for its own good) I'm sure the States would pull together and become united once again. Is that what it will take?

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 10:49 PM

I don't even think that would bring th country together, D, seein' as much damage Bush has allready inflickeded on the country with his divisive "RULE"...

Lot of folks might consider the Taliban better than Bush... Actually it's twiddle dee/twiddlw dum as far as I see it...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 11:07 PM

Debating America's Christian Character was an excellent commentary on National Public Radio. The site has some extra information about how the Founding Fathers felt about religion and government.

Just so you know, for when those arguments come along.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: GUEST,Cretinous Yahoo
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 04:05 PM

Doug, what laws have the Supreme Court made?

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: GUEST,Cretinous Yahoo
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 08:37 PM

We are waiting, Doug...

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: DougR
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 01:17 AM

Well their last ruling on the seizure of private property by the government (seizure by emminent domain) is a pretty good example, Cretinous. Leaving for vacation tomorrow, or else I'd cite a few more. No time now. You wouldn't accept whatever I said anyway, so waste of my time and yours. Your opinion is cast in stone ..as is mine.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: harpgirl
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 07:36 AM

John Hardly, therapeutic abortion is not a multi-billion dollar industry.
This is a lie perpetrated by men who wish to have more control over women. A therapeutic abortion costs about three hundred dollars.
And your veiled invective against a woman's right to chose, especially once she has been forcibly raped is quite offensive. Roe v. Wade is in jeopardy at this point, and anyone with magnifyers can see that the radical right is bent on eliminating the few hard-won women's rights that currently exist.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: John Hardly
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 07:39 AM

How much is $300 times 40,000,000?

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: John Hardly
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 07:41 AM

...and who said anything about abortion in cases of rape, incest, or health/life of the mother? Not me.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: John P
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 09:11 AM

So why do the anti-abortion crowd call themselves pro-life, and also, for the most part, favor the death penalty, unlimited gun ownership and sales, and war? I don't get it. Why not just call themselves anti-abortion? Calling themselves pro-life, given the dead in Texas and Iraq, offends my sense of reason.

John Peektok

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: John Hardly
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 09:32 AM

That is merely a change of subject, as well as a semantic diversion. I'm willing to discuss it (yet again) but it has nothing to do wiht the subject at hand.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 09:58 AM

We are warned. GWB said yesterday that he doesn't like any of the criticism of Gonzales one little bit. No I don't like it at all.

Sort of a training video for his base to act indignant to any debate whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: John Hardly
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 10:10 AM

hmmm. That's funny because my impression so far has been that Gonzales is the "moderate's" choice. Every single talking heads show so far has had the liberal side suggesting Gonzales as the "wise choice". The thinking so far is that he is another probable Souter -- untested, but most likely liberal-to-moderate, and likely to be pro-choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Resigns
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 10:44 AM

I do believe the Supreme Court should be fair and balanced.   The last apointment was Darth Beta Ginsberg- a former ACLU lawyer.   To balance that appointment, you would need a right wing extremest whaco to balance the left wing extremest whaco already in place.   That would be fair and balanced.

If Douglas retires you would need a gen-xer to balance the prehistoric dinosaur already in place.

If Breyer retires you would need someone named Strohs, Edy's or Good Humour.

If Souter retires no one would notice.

If you don't like my suggestions, than win an election and pick your own candidate.