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BS: Drumcree March Dead and Buried

The Curator 16 Jul 05 - 11:54 AM
paddymac 16 Jul 05 - 12:59 PM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 17 Jul 05 - 07:14 AM
Jimmy C 17 Jul 05 - 10:57 PM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 18 Jul 05 - 12:50 PM
ard mhacha 18 Jul 05 - 01:20 PM
gnu 18 Jul 05 - 01:36 PM
GUEST,Brendy 18 Jul 05 - 08:09 PM
The Curator 22 Jul 05 - 03:12 PM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 22 Jul 05 - 03:22 PM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 22 Jul 05 - 05:59 PM
The Curator 22 Jul 05 - 06:10 PM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 22 Jul 05 - 06:33 PM
GUEST,nearly alex ferguson 22 Jul 05 - 11:26 PM
GUEST,Boab 23 Jul 05 - 03:54 AM
GUEST 23 Jul 05 - 04:20 AM
GUEST 23 Jul 05 - 05:44 AM
GUEST 23 Jul 05 - 05:49 AM
Keith A of Hertford 23 Jul 05 - 06:08 AM
Keith A of Hertford 23 Jul 05 - 06:22 AM
GUEST 23 Jul 05 - 06:33 AM
ard mhacha 23 Jul 05 - 07:47 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 23 Jul 05 - 11:08 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 23 Jul 05 - 11:13 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 23 Jul 05 - 11:16 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 23 Jul 05 - 01:53 PM
GUEST 23 Jul 05 - 02:24 PM
The Curator 23 Jul 05 - 05:16 PM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 23 Jul 05 - 05:17 PM
GUEST 23 Jul 05 - 05:20 PM
The Curator 23 Jul 05 - 06:42 PM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 23 Jul 05 - 06:51 PM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 23 Jul 05 - 06:56 PM
GUEST 23 Jul 05 - 06:59 PM
Wolfgang 24 Jul 05 - 04:27 AM
Wolfgang 24 Jul 05 - 05:34 AM
Wolfgang 24 Jul 05 - 06:40 AM
GUEST 24 Jul 05 - 06:44 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 24 Jul 05 - 07:00 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 24 Jul 05 - 07:01 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 24 Jul 05 - 07:12 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 24 Jul 05 - 07:13 AM
The Curator 24 Jul 05 - 11:27 AM
ard mhacha 24 Jul 05 - 02:12 PM
Wolfgang 24 Jul 05 - 04:28 PM
The Curator 24 Jul 05 - 04:29 PM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 24 Jul 05 - 04:30 PM
The Curator 24 Jul 05 - 04:39 PM
Tiocfaidh 24 Jul 05 - 07:19 PM
ard mhacha 25 Jul 05 - 05:31 AM
Coyote Breath 25 Jul 05 - 02:48 PM
Paul Burke 26 Jul 05 - 03:45 AM
GUEST 26 Jul 05 - 06:13 AM
Coyote Breath 26 Jul 05 - 10:37 AM
Wolfgang 26 Jul 05 - 11:15 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 26 Jul 05 - 11:23 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 26 Jul 05 - 11:24 AM
Wolfgang 26 Jul 05 - 11:43 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 26 Jul 05 - 11:47 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 26 Jul 05 - 11:56 AM
GUEST,Tír Chonaill 26 Jul 05 - 12:01 PM
Paul Burke 26 Jul 05 - 12:18 PM
GUEST,Tír Chonaill 26 Jul 05 - 12:22 PM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 26 Jul 05 - 12:24 PM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 26 Jul 05 - 09:48 PM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 26 Jul 05 - 11:59 PM
GUEST,Tír Chonaill 27 Jul 05 - 02:34 AM

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Subject: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: The Curator
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 11:54 AM

Has anyone besides myself noticed the silence from the Orange Order the past year regarding their march of shame through a catholic area of Portadown ? For the past 11 years they have been foaming at the mouth shouting WE WILL WALK THAT ROAD, WATCH AND SEE. NOTHING WILL STOP US. The parade was due down the other Sunday and there was no repeats of their actions of previous years calling everyone to block the roads and bring the North of Ireland to a halt. In previous years their calls were answered, a lot were killed by their followers, including the three catholic Quinn children burned to death in their home in Ballymoney by an orange mob. I am not complaining that they are not out on the roads or killing catholics, it's just I suppose another mouthful of hot air from these fools.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: paddymac
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 12:59 PM

This particular "parade" was kind of a "non-issue" this year. Whether the over-all rancor of the marching season has receded is another question. The return march along the Ardoyne area got rather nasty, and the PSNI forced marches through in at least two places where the parades Commission had said "no go." Drumcree is merely one hole in the Orange sieve of hatred.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 17 Jul 05 - 07:14 AM

Yes, the 'seige' of Drumcree seems to be broken. It is hard to live in a tent for 10 years, I suppose. The security barrier was actually open, but nobody bothered even going there (physically or intellectually).

Our grandchildren may yet live to see the day when all triumphalism disappears from Unionist politics.

... maybe the DUP will sit down and talk about it, after all...


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: Jimmy C
Date: 17 Jul 05 - 10:57 PM

The absence of the Drumcree March of shame can be attributed to one thing and one thing only. That is that many of the Orange Brethern are now realizing, perhaps for the first time that their "TIME IS UP". In other words there is not as many of them now as there once was, and they do not have the clout that they omce had. The realization that the day of a nationalist majority is coming and may not be too far away is making some of them come to their senses. I feel that many of them are waking up to the fact that if they want to live in N.Ireland then had better start mending fences before it is too late. There will be a few lodges in the future who may parade at Drumcree, but they will be Turf Lodge and the New Lodge. Personally I am glad to see this marching foolishness on the wane. It will be around for a long time still but it has lost it's meaning and it's bite. It really is time to sit down and talk like neighbours.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 12:50 PM

"Year after year, their numbers get fewer.
Some year no-one will march there at all"


Eric Bogle


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: ard mhacha
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 01:20 PM

It is not a happy carnival event, the Orange Order may keep on hammering out this false message.

When the Orangemen walk through districts were they are not welcome, the people living in those area can find themselves unable to leave their homes for hours.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 01:36 PM

Jimmy C said: "It really is time to sit down and talk like neighbours."

"Now Irishmen forget the past, ..." While this is part of a joke from the tune "God Bless England", it echo's JC's statement and Eric's quote from the old Aussie tune. All in all, even though these lines come from songs which have quite different meanings and intents, someday, hopefully, we will all be neighbours.

I have never seen the horrors ye lads have, but I have seen the hatred, even in some of my close relatives and neighbours. And, I am thousands of miles and nearly two centuries away.

It really is time, everywhere. Even here.

Gary Owens


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Brendy
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 08:09 PM

All during my early childhood, my mother and father took all the family to Donegal during the 'Twelfth Fortnight'.

The misery that that march left in its wake every year; the fear that the frenzy they wound themselves up in, could at any time come crashing through your windows, and set your house on fire was very real and very imminent.

I helped my father put up shutters on our windows every night I was in the house... for 12 years.

All because of their 'Traditional Route', and the fact that being a Catholic in the middle of a Protestant area conflicted with their idea of an 'ethnically clean' housing estate.

It's the ones who died trying to protect their homes that I remember, and I hope to God that all marches through Nationalist areas cease forthwith.

But then again, we're talking abou the Orange Order. They preach segregation.

'Weary old heroes of a forgotten war'
(Bogle)

B.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: The Curator
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 03:12 PM

Did you note Paul Berry the very outspoken DUP assembly man and leader of the Long March was asked not to attend the 12th by his local branch. Great to see this little creep for what he is.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 03:22 PM

Sooner or later; hopefully sooner, of course... the pedestal that this insidious lot put themselves up on will come crashing down around them.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 05:59 PM

It is a sign of the times, however....

I remember the British printed media castigating the residents of the Garvaghy Road for protesting over such a 'trifle' as a march down a road.

If Paul Berry had have been a Sinn Féin member (... bear with me here ...), the media would have been full of the 'scandal'

Every concession the Nationalist Community has achieved, from the first Dungannon riots to the Parades Commission, has been won in the face of tremendous opposition and systematic victimisation

You really do have to literally fight for your rights, sometimes.

It just seems so grotesque that in the 21st century there are places where Christianity's own Wahabis still call for the total subjugation of a minority ethnic grouping, who they believe embody the Anti-Christ himself!

... In your own backyard, I'm talking about.

Maybe that's why certain British people live in a constant state of denial.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: The Curator
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 06:10 PM

Very true Tír Eoghain, remember how Sammy wilson and Kincora left the papers very quickly. Yet again you bring your point across with skill.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 06:33 PM

Kincora.

Yeah, Sammy does have a spotty bum....

Thank you

;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,nearly alex ferguson
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 11:26 PM

religion, eh, bloody hell


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 03:54 AM

I'd hate to see a selection of the purveyors of hatred contributing here being selected to serve in a body charged with the promotion of PEACE in Ireland. Much poison is spewed by Orangemen in Northern Ireland; but there seems to be a pile of it going in the other direction too.
   Stop hating.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 04:20 AM

Examples of poison spewed by Nationalists, please?


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 05:44 AM

Boab what I see are very well informed people imparting their knowledge, gained from living in NI. I certainly don't see 'hate.' Maybe you meant to write 'hope.'


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 05:49 AM

What?

2 hours, and no-one can come up with an example of Nationalists spewing hatred?

I find that quite re-assuring


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 06:08 AM

Try Jacks post here


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 06:22 AM

and this


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 06:33 AM

First link is fact

2nd is fact too

Hatred?
Can't see it, really


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: ard mhacha
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 07:47 AM

Looking for hate, how about this,the Portadown loyalist have stopped the trains going to the Ulster GAA final in Dublin, by putting packets on the line outside Portadown.
Most sporting events throughout the troubles were never targeted, with the excepition of Gaelic games.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 11:08 AM

Sorry Keith.

The truth is sometimes hurtful.

Our chapter in your history is over, and I actually do wish you luck in dealing with it.

And yeah... as far as I can see it, bombing campaigns work.
No?

You really do have to literally fight for your rights, sometimes.

It's that rampant sense of denial some of you have, that I'm talking about.
Some of you actually do sit with your heads up your arses, Keith.
And you appear to be one of them.

Now, if there's anything hateful in the above, please point it out.

Surprisingly enough, you might think, the average Nationalist does not hate English people.

And I would be insulting my own intelligence, were I all of a sudden to blanket-hate all English people.
... purely on the basis that they were English

Some of my best friends are English, Keith!

But they are sufficiently balanced to know injustice and oppression when they see it.

And they know that we don't generally make it personal.

I know 3 people on this forum who were nearly killed a few times by Loyalist/Security Force collusion, and they don't hate the English.

They hate injustice.

Injustice.

INJUSTICE.

You will find things written on these threads that you won't like to read, quite possibly.

That's not my problem, though


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 11:13 AM

I hear ya, ard mhacha.

Lets hope for the right result...

;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 11:16 AM

Now....

Someone said something about Nationalists spewing hatred.

Examples PLEASE


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 01:53 PM

Boab?

Where's this 'pile' of 'poison' on this forum that you are referring to?

Soon, please, or withdraw the comment


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 02:24 PM

I see a lot of hate elswhere on this board.

And an inordinate amount of poison.

The Irish have been on the receiving end of that for years.

Now its the 'Asians' turn


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: The Curator
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 05:16 PM

They may have blocked the railway line, but nothing stopped Armagh lifting the Ulster title. ARD MHACHA ABU.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 05:17 PM

.... I'm from the Birches ... ;)

Go Wan The Lads...


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 05:20 PM

Close to them, anyway...

On the right side of the Blackwater, of course


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: The Curator
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 06:42 PM

Just down the road from me in Lurgan.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 06:51 PM

Oh, less rather than more, believe me...


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 06:56 PM

... namesake got sent off today...


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 06:59 PM

Click


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 04:27 AM

Examples of poison spewed by Nationalists, please

You wouldn't recognise it as such. People are often immune to their and their ilk own poison. If you have read some of the threads where Tyrone and others contribute and still need to be pointed to the poison noone can help you with your request.

A time will come when the present bunch of paramilitaries will be 'tired old men from a forgotten war'. Brendy is right but not inclusive enough.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 05:34 AM

Examples of poison spewed by Nationalists, please

You wouldn't recognise it as such. People are often immune to their and their ilk own poison. If you have read some of the threads where Tyrone and others contribute and still need to be pointed to the poison noone can help you with your request.

A time will come when the present bunch of paramilitaries will be 'tired old men from a forgotten war'. Brendy is right but not inclusive enough.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 06:40 AM

Examples of poison spewed by Nationalists, please

You wouldn't recognise it as such. People are often immune to their and their ilk own poison. If you have read some of the threads where Tyrone and others contribute and still need to be pointed to the poison noone can help you with your request.

A time will come when the present bunch of paramilitaries will be 'tired old men from a forgotten war'. Brendy is right but not inclusive enough.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 06:44 AM

Wolfgang,Can I subscribe something for that awful stttttammer Try the music threads.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 07:00 AM

Examples of poison, please?


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 07:01 AM

... Oh, and the hate thing has to be pointed out too, Wolfgang.

Off you go, now...


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 07:12 AM

"You wouldn't recognise it as such2

Ahh I see... One man's meat..., etc?

The truth is sometimes hurtful, Wolfgang

But poison and hate it is not.

What you're saying is..it depends on how you read it...

And I would say that indeed beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

It's a forgotten war for us, Wolfgang.

Your continual bias against the Nationalists of the North of Ireland shows itself well in your post.

I noticed you were not inclusive in you support so far for the thread that Loyalist weapons should be be removed from the equation.

When you show yourself willing to do that, then I will take what you have to say with something more than a pinch of salt


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 07:13 AM

Now get these examples streaming in, please. I'm starting to lose count of the amount of hours that have passed since that unsubstantiated claim was made by boab


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: The Curator
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 11:27 AM

I won't waste time even explaining ourselves to this clown. Let him look at his own nation.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 02:12 PM

Wolfgang,Do remember not to quote from some ill-informed article from the German press on the north of Ireland, the last time you quoted such an article it was riddled with innacuracys.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 04:28 PM

Ard Mhacha,

speaking about innacuracys:
where did I ever quote from an article from the German press on the North of Ireland? I did link to one but I did not quote.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: The Curator
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 04:29 PM

Same thing, you brought it to your posting.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 04:30 PM

U2 supporting the IRA, or something, wasn't it?

Isn't a link meant to support your position on a certain subject?

Its as good as a quotation.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: The Curator
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 04:39 PM

Did anyone ever notice when anyone is replying to the Wolfpack there is always a load of question marks ? has to say something about him. ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 07:19 PM

Here's his 'Interesting Outside View'


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 05:31 AM

Thanks Tiocfaidh,a truly misinformed news-hound, or is it hun.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 02:48 PM

I, for one, wait with hope to hear of the last rites for the marching "season", entirely. Then, dead and buried it will be.

CB


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: Paul Burke
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 03:45 AM

We'll know that Ireland is really at peace, when the Orange march is attended by kids in orange plastic bowlers and sashes with green shamrocks on them, and banging little plastic bodhrans made in China.

One step on the road might be for the Orange order to invite Nationalists to march with them.


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 06:13 AM

.. to help celebrate their own defeat?

Oh come on...


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 10:37 AM

It remains a defeat because it's "results" still hold and triumphal gloating dominates. When the celebration is conducted as Paul Burke describes, something that COULD happen with a truly united Ireland, it will be a celebration of a battle by those who ancestors participated, "winners" and "losers" both.

Here in the states we "celebrate" battles and skirmishes of our civil war. Union and Confederate re-enactors. Armed, yet. And the only "dead soldiers" are empty containers of beer.

No gloating. We gather to re-enact and to honor the more than 600,000 who died in that war.

I like your idea Paul Burke.

CB


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Subject: RE: BS: Drumcree March Dead and Buried
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 11:15 AM

Isn't a link meant to support your position on a certain subject? (Tyrone)

No, quite often not. Even in those cases when it is it does not follow that I agree with each detail or argument in the article.
But such a difference may be too subtle for those to whom "quote from" is the same thing as "link to".

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: DRUMCREE MARCH DEAD AND BURIED
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 11:23 AM

The Dept of Public Works in the Republic are planning to make the Boyne site into a visitors centre.
The 1798 Rebellion already is marked with signposted 'walks' throughout Wexford, and although a Protestant-led rebellion, it is not acknowledged by the Unionist Right, at all.
Theobald Wolfe Tone was himself a Protestant

Triumphalism has to disappear, and in that Coyote Breath is correct.

Drumcree, The Lower Ormeau Road, Ardoyne, and all the rest of the '12th' marches are there to specifically 'remind' us that there is division.

The original battle (and one which the Pope helped to fund) has lost its significance over the years

Irish Nationalism has nothing whatsoever to do with religion; many people of the Protestant faith hold high ranking positions in official bodies dedicated to the furtherance of the Irish Language, Music & Culture; Gael Linn, Conradh na Gaeilge, etc.

This 'Protestant State for as Protestant People', that Ian Paisley still spouts at rallies as being the 'only solution', is as far off the mark as one can be, when one looks at the reasoning behind The Glorious Revolution.

We're a bit past the idea of the Divine Right of Kings, at this stage..

The Twelfth of July marches have been variously excused as the celebrating of war dead in both World Wars, the rights of citizens to 'Walk the Queen's Highway', etc., and the original purpose of the battle is long forgotten as a reason to celebrate the date.

It would be a little English people celebrating the 30th January 1649

Because that set it all in motion, didn't it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Drumcree March Dead and Buried
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 11:24 AM

No, quite often not

You mislead when you do that Wolf track


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Subject: RE: BS: Drumcree March Dead and Buried
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 11:43 AM

Interesting, Tyrone.

As a songwriter, McEvoy is in a league of his own

Do I have to infer that that's your opinion just because you have linked to a site on which that sentence was written? I would have thought that you gave the link for information and not necessarily because everything in there was your opinion as well.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Drumcree March Dead and Buried
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 11:47 AM

I do happen to think Johnny McEvoy is in a league of his own, advancing Wolf, yes.

Problem?


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Subject: RE: BS: Drumcree March Dead and Buried
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 11:56 AM

... wish to ask me about the link I gave above, Wolf pack?


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Subject: RE: BS: Drumcree March Dead and Buried
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 12:01 PM

.... not doing too well here, are we, Wolfgang?


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Subject: RE: BS: Drumcree March Dead and Buried
From: Paul Burke
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 12:18 PM

It would be a little English people celebrating the 30th January 1649

Because that set it all in motion, didn't it?

Quite a few people do celebrate that date, and would like to celebrate a re- enactment of it on the third of that name.

But I think it had being going on for quite a while, names like Feach Mac Hugh spring to mind, then there was the bit before that... but certainly, the need to find (someone else's) land to pay off Civil War troops was a big factor in the NI settlement. I think, though, in any case, simple surplus progeny would have led to a similar class of come- down descendants hanging onto the coat tails of the establishment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Drumcree March Dead and Buried
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 12:22 PM

Hanging on to power, Paul


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Subject: RE: BS: Drumcree March Dead and Buried
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 12:24 PM

You beat me to it, Pete ;-)

"... and would like to celebrate a re- enactment of it on the third of that name"

LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: Drumcree March Dead and Buried
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 09:48 PM

Look, Wolfgang, it's a question of what the contribution is.

For a man that claims to have been in Ireland as much as you have, you could not have failed to notice a few things about the balance of society in the North.

Now, I don't necessarily wish you to go into your observations too much, unless you are prepared to admit that either you are deliberately taking the piss on occasion, when you present your observations about the situation here, or are just trying to wind up the situation, while you sit back with your usual detachment.

Either that, or you have a blockage somewhere, Wolfgang.

You know as well as I do that that Der Spiegel link was riddled with inaccuracies, and all you saw fit to call it was 'Interesting'.
You have discerned more from less in other opinions you have proffered, and you have been more than vocal when the mood has taken you.

I really don't like time-wasters, Wolfgang, and either you are one, your powers of observation are not what you would have them to be, or you are intrinsically anti-Irish.

Because for a man who supposedly understands the wheels of the World, you cast your incisiveness aside, and become just like the rest of the crowd in the Colosseum, as soon as the subject turns to the North of Ireland.

I have not seen a post by you, where you have provided a link favourable to the Nationalists, and if indeed the pattern of one's typed words on a screen can be used to determine the presence of mind of the poster, I would say there is always a certain degree of 'smugness' attached to your lyrics.

If you're anti-Irish, I'll slam you at every turn, Wolfgang.
Of that you may be quite sure, and we'll argue the fine print of link content til the cows come home.
You will always lose the argument, because as Amos said in 'Perception' the further away from direct observation your data comes from, the less likely you are to have the facts.

Don't let yourself believe that your take on any given situation is the correct one, Wolfgang; we're not going 'Man and Superman' on this, so get that notion out of your head without further ado.
You are as fallible as those you think you correct my man, and I think you are getting more bitter with the years.

Perhaps you should buy a television


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Subject: RE: BS: Drumcree March Dead and Buried
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 11:59 PM

What is popularly referred to as the 'Ascendancy', Paul (see the Wolfe Tone link) have settled into the neighbourhood by now; more noticeably in the Republic. You see quite a lot of the 'old' families still inhabiting the Demesne, and you have the Knight of here and Lord So and So of there still knocking around from time to time, when they're not in 'Landen'..., at the 'Clab'.

As far as the working/middle class Protestant is concerned; there's not much difference in status, and discriminition between the religions is non-existant, as far as I can see.

The 6 counties, on the other hand, is polarised... for no good reason, I might add.
Working class Protestants have the same mortgages to pay as the Catholics do, and they have their own unemployment problems, as well; Harland and Wolff, Shorts, etc.

It was Partition that kicked this present (in an 800 year context, I mean) situation off.

Once the 'Ascendancy' were in the ascendant in the North, they denied the Catholics everything outside of that which was required to get them out of bed in the mornings, and in to work in their factories and linen mills.

It was a bit like having your own chain-gang.

This is now the 21st Century, Paul, and like everything else I suppose, the discriminition is starting to be shown up for what it actually always has been.
And that is starting to make a difference.
The World is becoming more politically correct, and bigots and tyrants are being tolerated less (unless they've oil, or something..., but that's another story...).

The Execution of Charles I is not a Public Holiday, I don't think, and the revellers at the re-enactments don't throw petrol bombs at Buckingham Palace after the drunken day out.

The Unionists however, turn places like the Garvaghy Road and Ardoyne into shrines that must be worshipped at, in the name of 'Glorious Protestantism', and all the fun tends to go out of it, all of a sudden.

Maybe the 12th of July should be given a period of quarantine as well.

Maybe In 150 years (because it will take a few generations) this idea of dominance can drift out of the mindset of the Protestant population, same way as it drifted out of the Ascendancy culture in the Republic.

Maybe if we had a United Ireland it would be easier.


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Subject: RE: BS: Drumcree March Dead and Buried
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 02:34 AM

Wolfgang is as dispassionate as a rainy day in Ballymena.

... and always as exciting


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