Origins: FUZZY WUZZY

Subject: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jul 05 - 09:58 PM

In a heated argument over the pronunciation of 'was'- is it wahs (OED) or is it wuz (generic)- the origin of "Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear" came up.

It could be based on the Kipling poem "Fuzzy-Wuzzy" from Barrack-Room Ballads (1890)- Soudan Expeditionary Force, speaking of the Fuzzy-Wuzzies, there is the line: "with your 'ayrick 'ead of 'air," -then again maybe not.
What is the oldest reference to this rhyme? that you know? (Several versions sung in camp and in the nursery, but who was the culprit who started it?).

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Jul 05 - 10:05 PM

Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear
fussxy wuzzy gad no hair
fuzzy wuzzy wasn't fussy wuzzy?

Icky goey was a worm
Icky goey liked to squirm
One day he crossed the railroad tracks
Icky goey on the track

Best I can do

Jerry

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Jul 05 - 10:43 PM

I used to work for the library system in Pittsburgh and folks there knew of my interest in very old National Geographic magazines.

I believe that it was in one of those magazines that I first saw the term "Fuzzy Wuzzies" used as a reference for Black men {and/or Black women??} from Micronesia or from Africa.

It appears "Fuzzie Wuzzies" in Kipling's poem refers to men from the Sudan {East Africa}. The name was given because of the men's {wooly, crinkly; tightly curly hair texture. * The "fuzzy wuzzy" hair style is the same as or very similar to the 'afro'hair style which in the late 1960s was also called a 'natural'.

I've taken the liberty to post that complete poem in my next post.

* "Kinky" and "Nappy" are two other terms that have been used to
   refer to the natural hair texture which most people of {Black}
   African descent have. However, since the late 20th century, those
   terms are often considered to be offensive. "Tightly curled" is a
   "safer" term that I would recommend for those who wish to describe
   or refer to [most] Black people's hair in it's natural state-
   that is-when the hair isn't chemically treated or treated with a
   hot comb.

That said, with regard to 'kinky or 'wooly' hair, see this
quote from Alice Walker's book "The Color Purple" :
"Somewhere in the bible it say Jesus hair was like lamb's wool,
I say. Well, say Shug, if he came to any of these churches we
   talking bout he'd have to have it conked before anybody paid him
   any attention. The last thing niggers want to think about they
   God is that his hair kinky."

-snip-

   I believe that the widely cited verse {by church going
   Black people anyway}that Jesus had hair like lamb's wool
   is from Rev. 1:14,15.

   Biblical scholars can verify & correct this citation if need be.


Azizi

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Jul 05 - 10:44 PM

(Soudan Expeditionary Force) Rudyard Kipling

We've fought with many men acrost the seas,
An' some of 'em was brave an' some was not:
The Paythan an' the Zulu an' Burmese;
But the Fuzzy was the finest o' the lot.
We never got a ha'porth's change of 'im:
'E squatted in the scrub an' 'ocked our 'orses,
'E cut our sentries up at Sua~kim~,
An' 'e played the cat an' banjo with our forces.
So 'ere's ~to~ you, Fuzzy-Wuzzy, at your 'ome in the Soudan;
You're a pore benighted 'eathen but a first-class fightin' man;
We gives you your certificate, an' if you want it signed
We'll come an' 'ave a romp with you whenever you're inclined.

We took our chanst among the Khyber 'ills,
The Boers knocked us silly at a mile,
The Burman give us Irriwaddy chills,
An' a Zulu ~impi~ dished us up in style:
But all we ever got from such as they
Was pop to what the Fuzzy made us swaller;
We 'eld our bloomin' own, the papers say,
But man for man the Fuzzy knocked us 'oller.
Then 'ere's ~to~ you, Fuzzy-Wuzzy, an' the missis and the kid;
Our orders was to break you, an' of course we went an' did.
We sloshed you with Martinis, an' it wasn't 'ardly fair;
But for all the odds agin' you, Fuzzy-Wuz, you broke the square.

'E 'asn't got no papers of 'is own,
'E 'asn't got no medals nor rewards,
So we must certify the skill 'e's shown
In usin' of 'is long two-'anded swords:
When 'e's 'oppin' in an' out among the bush
With 'is coffin-'eaded shield an' shovel-spear,
An 'appy day with Fuzzy on the rush
Will last an 'ealthy Tommy for a year.
So 'ere's ~to~ you, Fuzzy-Wuzzy, an' your friends which are no more,
If we 'adn't lost some messmates we would 'elp you to deplore;
But give an' take's the gospel, an' we'll call the bargain fair,
For if you 'ave lost more than us, you crumpled up the square!

'E rushes at the smoke when we let drive,
An', before we know, 'e's 'ackin' at our 'ead;
'E's all 'ot sand an' ginger when alive,
An' 'e's generally shammin' when 'e's dead.
'E's a daisy, 'e's a ducky, 'e's a lamb!
'E's a injia-rubber idiot on the spree,
'E's the on'y thing that doesn't give a damn
For a Regiment o' British Infantree!
So 'ere's ~to~ you, Fuzzy-Wuzzy, at your 'ome in the Soudan;
You're a pore benighted 'eathen but a first-class fightin' man;
An' 'ere's ~to~ you, Fuzzy-Wuzzy, with your 'ayrick 'ead of 'air --
You big black boundin' beggar -- for you broke a British square!

http://www.online-literature.com/kipling/841/

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Jul 05 - 11:06 PM

Jerry, the children's version of "Fuzzy Wuzzy" that I remember reciting and have heard recited & seen published was a play on the word "wuzzy" like so:

Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear
Fuzzy wuzzy had no hair.
Fuzzy wuzzy wasn't fuzzy was he.

-snip-

I suppose that the last sentence was supposed to be a question, but I've never recited it as such and I've never heard children recite it as a question.

I've never heard the 2nd verse that you posted with or independent of the "Fuzzy Wuzzy" rhyme:

Icky goey was a worm
Icky goey liked to squirm
One day he crossed the railroad tracks
Icky goey on the track

-snip-

If you don't mind, would you give some demographics for it {approximately what years did you recite this rhyme with that 2nd verse and where}.

I'm also curious to know if others know this 2nd verse.


Thanks,

Azizi

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: artbrooks
Date: 17 Jul 05 - 11:16 PM

Azizi, I learned the second one (early '50s) as:
   
    Ooey goey was a worm
    Ooey goey liked to squirm
    Ooey goey crossed the railroad tracks
    Ooey goey didn't hear the train coming
    Ooey goey!!

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jul 05 - 11:28 PM

These have all been posted in the Mudcat.
But, again, what is the origin of the nursery rhyme? Oldest date you know for it?

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: JudeL
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 09:38 AM

I learnt this version in the playground in s wales in the late 60's:

Ugchy wugchy was a worm
ugchy wugchy liked to squirm
got on to a rail way line
didn't se the train in time
uuugchy wuuuugchy

Having learnt this as an oral tradition & never having seen it written down it I have found it difficult to convey the almost hawking quality of the worm's name in writing

Don't know if this helps

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Flash Company
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 09:44 AM

Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear,
Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair,
Fuzzy Wuzzy wasn't fuzzy wus he.

Fuzzy Wuzzy's hair did stop,
Right inside that barber's shop,
Fuzzy Wuzzy wasn't fuzzy wus he.

Once he was covered up with fuzzy hair,
From his head to toes,
But when he left that barber's chair
He wusn't what he used to wuz!

Repeat first verse


Don't know who wrote it, can't remember who sang it, as I have said before ,God I do remember some rubbish!

FC

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Snuffy
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 09:45 AM

I think I recall this from my childhood as a song/chant

Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear
Fuzzy wuzzy had no hair.
Fuzzy wuzzy lost his crop
At the North pole barber's shop
.... (maybe more here)
So Fuzzy wuzzy wasn't fuzzy, was he?

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 09:50 AM

Fuzzy Wuzzy was written by Al Hoffman, Milton Drake & Jerry Livingston, mid 40s, I'd say.

I can remember only a few other snippets.

They say that all the seals in Hudson Bay can't beat Fuzzy's fuzz.
*****
Fuzzy Wuzzy lost his crop in a North Pole barber shop
*****
But when they took his fuzz away, he wasn't what he usta was.

That's about all I can come up with ~~ it's been quite a long time since I heard it.

I just found mention of a recording by Al Trace, National 7011,circa 1944. No doubt there were others as well.


Do a search for Jerry Livingston and you'll find that he wrote many songs you have heard. The Unbirthday Song, Wake the Town and Tell the People, The Twelfth of Never ~~ just to name a few. Oh, and the classic Mairzy Doats!

Here is his entry at the Songwriter's Hall Of Fame http://www.songwritershalloffame.org/exhibit_bio.asp?exhibitId=299

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 09:52 AM

While I was composing my message, I see Flash Company and Snuffy both came up with a bit of the song. If we keep at it, we may get it all!

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 10:41 AM

Fuzzy Wuzzies are specifically the Hadendowa tribe of the Beja peoples of Eastern Sudan. As Azizi said they have very large, afro-like hairdos.
They were very fearsome fighters, with enormous broadswords and off-white kilts, who even managed to break a British square.
If anybody wants to learn more of their history, I can suggest any number of books. PM me.
Scroll down for a terrific pic of their hair
As to the Biblical verse, it's far more likely to reffer to colour, but that's just an aside.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 11:05 AM

He's my illegitimate son, with Fezziwig.

~S~

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 11:12 AM

Le Scaramouche,

Thanks for that link to that very interesting article.

****

In my earlier post when I noted that I have a vague recollection of hearing the term "Fuzzy Wuzzy" applied to persons with 'afro' hairstyles living outside of Africa, I believe that I was referring to The Soloman Islands. And I believe that they are Melanesian and not Micronesian.

****

As to the Biblical verse which says that Jesus had hair like lamb's wool, to think that this refers to the hair's color is stretching credulity quite a bit...What color? Aren't most lambs white in color? Jesus' hair is usually given as brown but I suppose that-given where he lived-it was black. And people in that area did have hair that was tightly curly {meaning like lamb's wool}.

A Mudcat thread titled What did Jesus Look Like discusses Jesus' physical features and has links to other online articles about this subject.

****

Isn't it amazing how a thread on "Fuzzy Wuzzy" can lead to so many different subjects. That's why I love Mudcat!


Azizi

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 11:40 AM

Revelation 1:14 has hair white as wool that is white as snow. If that's about the way his hair is styled, I must've missed it. It's spiritual imagery.

If Welsh soldiers wanted to start a brawl, they'd shout something about form square to Black Watch, who were very touchy since that incident at Tamai.

The Zoltan Korda "Four Feathers" is well worth watching for the extras playing the Mahdists, all of whom were local and some had even fought at Omdurman.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 01:52 PM

Thanks, Dale. I believe you found it.
I 'think' I remember it from childhood, about 1930, but memory is tricky and I could well have picked it up later.

Le Scaramouche, "Four Feathers" is one of my favorites. Periodically I dig out the tape and watch it again. Like "Zulu," one of the great British historical films. Hollywood usually failed in this genre except for one or two fine westerns. And one very old Civil War film which is often badly misinterpreted.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 02:34 PM

Later I found mention of a 1939 recording by the Jesters. Pity that ASCAP and BMI do not date their copyrights on their search page or we could nail it down. Oh, and I found one by Rosemary Clooney from 1950. The version I can "hear" in my head featured male voices, so perhaps it was the 39.

This other stuff is all interesting too. To add to what Azizi said, our search sometimes takes us down so many different paths, all worth traveling.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: GUEST,allan s.
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 02:41 PM

Wilbur Smiths new book just out this month "The triumph of the sun" taking place in the sudan. about Chinse Gordon, Kartoom . etc.
Historicaly correct A novel w/500pages of action. Ending with the battle of Omdurman

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 02:55 PM

It appears that the clearest reference to Jesus's hair like wool actually comes from this verse from Daniel 7:9 [Old Testament;Revised Standard Version]

"As I looked, thrones were placed and one that was ancient of days took his seat, his raiment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne wsas fiery flames, its wheels were burning fire".

-snip-

While there can be debate about whether the person described in the verse from Daniel refers to Jesus or not, it seems to me to be clear that the verse is describing the texture of hair rather than the color of hair.

****
These verses from Revelations 1:13-15 [New Testament, Revised Standard Version] have also been used by those who assert that Jesus was dark skinned with 'woolly' hair:

" [13] and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast.
[14] his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were a flame of fire [15] his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters.   

-snip-

I agree with those who say that the Revelations verse can probably be best interpreted to mean that the man described {Jesus?} had hair the color of lamb's wool or snow {that is to say-white in color.]
The "feet like bronze" has been used by some Black folks as proof of Jesus' dark skin color.

IMO, the best proof of that 'bronze' skin tone is the descriptions of the population where Jesus lived during the time that Jesus lived there.


Azizi

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 03:21 PM

And what does burnished bronze do? It shines. Reflects light too.
The verse in Daniel reffers to colour. They have snow and wool grouped together in the same verse. What is the common denominator?

I would recommend Korda's Four Feathers along with the book. Do skip the most recent production. It was silly, sanctimonious and heavily departed from the spirit of the book.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 03:36 PM

Le Scaramouche,

You may be correct on that interpretation of those Biblical verses.
I'm not a Biblical scholar.

My intention was to share with folks here what some is a relatively common interpretation among African Americans of those {one or both} or other Biblical verses. As I mentioned in my first post in this thread on this subject, Alice Walker's "The Color Purple" includes a reference to Jesus having hair like lamb's wool'. And this quote used to describe the texture of Jesus' hair is probably used in other literary works.

But as I also said in my earlier posts, I believe that the strongest proof of how Jesus looked and what kind of hair he had was the physical descriptors of folks who lived in that area during the time that he walked among them in his physical form.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 03:48 PM

Sure, archaeological, iconographical and even anthropological work has pointed towards slightly dark, weathered features with straight hair reaching just above the shoulders. As a Galileean (more conservative lot, you see) he'd have had a tidy beard.
But anyway, I digress.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 04:26 PM

I dont think anyone could make much of a case forthe Daniel Bible quote being about Jesus. The Book of Daniel came out long before Jesus!

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 04:31 PM

This is a digression off-topic subject big time and I'm sorry to say it's all my fault. But people have been known to believe what they want to believe-and quite a few Christians believe that certain passages in the Old Testament point to Jesus.

I'll say no more about this since I prefer to have this thread focus on the question that it's originator asked as well as be a place for folks to post their versions of fuzzy wuzzy rhymes.

My apologies.

Azizi

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 05:04 PM

Purpose of thread was to establish origin.
Versions in threads:
1615: Fuzzy vers
7030: Fuzzy vars
37458: Fuzzies
51921: Fuzzies
62965: Fuzzies
69155: Fuzzies
etc.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 06:43 PM

Fuzzy Wuzzies was the name given to the natives of Papua & New Guinea during WWII by the Aussie Soldiers - they carried many wounded out.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 06:47 PM

Kipling took a lot of stick from the left(and rightly) for his imperialist attitudes. But his "first class fighting man" remark about the Fuzzy Wuzzies, and his "You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din" sing out down the years a lot louder than many a good multi-culti liberal.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: PennyBlack
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 07:04 PM

Ooey Gooey was a worm
A mighty worm was he
He crawled upon the railroad track
The train he did not see
OO Ooey Gooey!!

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 09:55 AM

Kipling was a master at conveying the POV of someone else. In this case, Tommy, who to make any charitable comment about an enemy they must've been something. Not love, or anything like that, but healthy respect for their skill.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: The Walrus
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 10:25 AM

Le Scaramouche,

"...I would recommend Korda's Four Feathers along with the book. Do skip the most recent production. It was silly, sanctimonious and heavily departed from the spirit of the book..."

I tend to agree about the modern version of 'Four Feathers', it was pure tripe - The Director tried to rewrite matters to suit his own politica agenda.
I would suggest that the best film version is the 1939(?) Alexander Korda version of the film (made with the assistance of men of the East Surrey Regiment, then in Egypt, as the 'North Surrey Regiment'). Zoltan Korda produced a scene-for-scene reshoot, which wasn't quite up to the same standard and the versions went downhill from there (Watch for the THREE DIFFERENT Kitcheners in "Storm over the Nile" - yet another re-make), the 1979(?) Bridges/Powell/Seymore version of the film was pretty dire too.
The 2004 version was the first remake NOT to try to use footage from the Alexander Korda version.


greg stephens,

"...Kipling took a lot of stick from the left(and rightly) for his imperialist attitudes. But his "first class fighting man" remark about the Fuzzy Wuzzies, and his "You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din" sing out down the years a lot louder than many a good multi-culti liberal..."

I think a more suitable comment might come from the opening lines of "The Ballad of East and West"

"..Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
   Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
   But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
   When two strong men stand face to face,
   tho' they come from the ends of the earth!..."

Regards

Walrus

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: JennyO
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 08:54 AM

To expand on what Foolestroupe said in his post of 18 Jul 05 - 06:43 PM, I remember my mother telling me about the "Fuzzy Wuzzy Angels" of Papua New Guinea. They were very highly thought of in the Second World War. There is a lot of information about them on the internet. This is what a Google search brings up, and here is part of a quote from Wikipedia:

"The Fuzzy Wuzzy Angels are a group of Papua New Guinean people who during World War II assisted and escorted injured Australian troops down the Kokoda trail....(They) carried injured Australian soldiers to ADS (Advanced dressing Stations) and often escorted them to martial hospitals. They often used fabric sheets stretched over bamboo poles to carry them to safety. Eight natives were assigned to a stretcher and escorted the injured to safety, often under heavy Japanese gunfire.

As one Australian digger has noted:

'They carried stretchers over seemingly impassable barriers, with the patient reasonably comfortable. The care they give to the patient is magnificent. If night finds the stretcher still on the track, they will find a level spot and build a shelter over the patient. They will make him as comfortable as possible fetch him water and feed him if food is available, regardless of their own needs. They sleep four each side of the stretcher and if the patient moves or requires any attention during the night, this is given instantly. These were the deeds of the "Fuzzy Wuzzy Angels" - for us!'

No known injured soldier that was still alive was ever abandoned by the Fuzzy Wuzzy Angels. Even during heavy combat.

There is a famous poem by Sapper Bert Beros which illustrates the heroism shown by the Fuzzy Wuzzy Angels:

Fuzzy Wuzzy Angels
Many a mother in Australia
when the busy day is done
Sends a prayer to the Almighty
for the keeping of her son
Asking that an angel guide him
and bring him safely back
Now we see those prayers are answered
on the Owen Stanley Track
For they haven't any halos
only holes slashed in their ears
And their faces worked by tattoos
with scratch pins in their hair
Bringing back the badly wounded
just as steady as a horse
Using leaves to keep the rain off
and as gentle as a nurse
Slow and careful in the bad places
on the awful mountain track
The look upon their faces
would make you think Christ was black
Not a move to hurt the wounded
as they treat him like a saint
It's a picture worth recording
that an artist's yet to paint
Many a lad will see his mother
and husbands see their wives
Just because the fuzzy wuzzy
carried them to save their lives
From mortar bombs and machine gun fire
or chance surprise attacks
To the safety and the care of doctors
at the bottom of the track
May the mothers of Australia
when they offer up a prayer
Mention those impromptu angels
with their fuzzy wuzzy hair."

Jenny

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 09:58 AM

Thanks for sharing that interesting information and poem, Jenny.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: David Ingerson
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 08:15 PM

To continue the interesting creep....

To interpret this passage of Daniel

"As I looked, thrones were placed and one that was ancient of days took his seat, his raiment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne was fiery flames, its wheels were burning fire".

it would help to know that one of the chief poetic devices of the ancient Hebrews was repeating an idea or image using different words. With that in mind, it seems that the first "couplet" (if you will) refers to the color covering this "ancient" one, and the second to the brilliance of the throne.

That some people believe this passage, written at least 200 years BC, refers to Jesus doesn't surprise me. The beliefs of religious people are not subject to scientific, historical, or common sense review.

Fair play to them.

One interesting result, though, is that Matthew"s gospel has Jesus riding into Jerusalem on two animals, on a donkey and on its foal. In his zeal to find prophesies about Jesus in the scriptures, and with his Greek misunderstanding of Hebrew poetry, Matthew takes Zacheriah 9;9 literally. It says something like (this is not an exact quote): And our saviour shall ride into the City of David seated on a donkey, and on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

I've often wondered how Matthew envisioned this procession. Was Jesus standing with one foot on each animal? Did he sit across both of them? Or maybe it didn't occur to him that it didn't make sense. Or maybe it did but he didn't think his readers would care. Interesting speculation.

Thanks, Azizi, for the creep.

David

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 03:01 AM

Or did he ride on one when the other was blown? Or the colt carried their things. Who knows.
Funnily enough, I always thought Matthew WAS Hebrew.
People believe that the prophecy reffers to Christ, because it is a prophecy. If you don't accept the divinity of Christ of course it won't make sense, in fact there's no point trying. This isn't a call to convert, merely an observation.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: GUEST,richie (paris)
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 06:41 PM

i still have a little golden record (78rpm) from the early fifties, with the song, I think sung by Anne Lloyd and the Sandpipers. In the text are the sentences "Fuzzy Wuzzy lost his crop at the Noth Pole's Barber Shop", "and all the seals in Hudson Bay envied Fuzzy's fuzz..." , I must dig it out, listen to it and write down the text. I'll be back here in a few days or weeks.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 05:57 PM

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 06:47 PM

"Kipling took a lot of stick from the left(and rightly) for his imperialist attitudes. But his "first class fighting man" remark about the Fuzzy Wuzzies, and his "You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din" sing out down the years a lot louder than many a good multi-culti liberal."

It is a mistake to judge the actions and attitudes of the past by todays moral standards.
Kipling was a man of his time. Imperialist by birth but in many ways compassionate and understanding of the many differences between different cultures and willing to accept the often overlooked qualities of "the native."

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Mo the caller
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 03:09 PM

three bears sat on an iceberg
daddy bear "I have a tale to tell"
mummy bear "I have a tale to tell"
baby bear "my tails told"

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: GUEST,Rumncoke
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 04:46 AM

I used to have a black labrador - I called him Blue because his blackness had a blue suffusion to it. In bright light he shone white. The brighter the light the more he glowed.

I have seen the same effect on Human hair which is black rather than very dark brown.

Perhaps the writer of the passage wished to emphasise the brilliance of the light.

Anne

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: KateG
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 04:25 PM

And we shouldn't forget that the extravagently dense white coats of modern sheep are fairly recent improvements, developed in the 18th/19th century in northern climes. I would think that biblical sheep would have coats more like those of Jacob's sheep (an historic breed), which are much stringier and less white than that of newer breeds.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: The Walrus
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 11:20 PM

A possible commenton Kipling's attitude?

We and They

FATHER, Mother, and Me,
    Sister and Auntie say
All the people like us are We,
    And every one else is They.
And They live over the sea,
    While We live over the way,
But—would you believe it?—They look upon We
    As only a sort of They!

We eat pork and beef
    With cow-horn-handled knives.
They who gobble Their rice off a leaf
    Are horrified out of Their lives;
And They who live up a tree,
    And feast on grubs and clay,
(Isn't it scandalous?) look upon We
    As a simply disgusting They!

We shoot birds with a gun.
    They stick lions with spears.
Their full-dress is un—.
    We dress up to Our ears.
They like Their friends for tea.
    We like Our friends to stay;
And, after all that, They look upon We
    As an utterly ignorant They

We eat kitcheny food.
    We have doors that latch.
They drink milk or blood,
    Under an open thatch.
We have Doctors to fee.
    They have Wizards to pay.
And (impudent heathen!) They look upon We
    As a quite impossible They!

All good people agree,
    And all good people say,
All nice people, like Us, are We
    And every one else is They
But if you cross over the sea,
    Instead of over the way,
You may end by (think of it!) looking on We
    As only a sort of They!

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 02:09 AM

It appears clear that "fuzzy-wuzzy" was used to describe some of the indigenous people in places in the British Empire, but my guess is that it applied to something (or someone) in the UK first, and then was extended to the indigenous people later.
The current Wikipedia article disagrees with me, but I still think that "fuzzy-wuzzy" may have innocent origins.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 08:27 AM

Indeed, most of the ancietnt sheep breeds suviving today , such as the
soay, have brown fleeces. The shade varies between almost black , to very-milky coffe coloured, but they're brown.

It's a reasonably safe assumpion then, that 'like a lambs fleece' means some shade of brown.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 09:48 AM

The latest cinema version of "The Four Feathers" interested me. When I heard that it was in production, I was very surprised as the the Korda version - and the the 50s " remake ( called "Storm over the Nile" in the UK), were very jingoistic and not at all in keeping with current sensibilties to Britain's imperialistic past. The latest version is very different - but interesting in its own way. It is very anti-jingoistic, and very anti-war.

Subject: RE: Origins: FUZZY WUZZY
From: CapriUni
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 05:57 PM

Did Kipling, indeed, write that, Walrus?

My mother always said that "they" was the worst of the four letter words.

(And she also recited the last line of Fuzzy Wuzzy as a question)