Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: ossonflags
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 04:03 AM

No critisism of you intended Hazel, I am sorry if it read like that.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: Northerner
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 04:59 PM

Thank you Ray for organising the competition. It was good to see competitors competing with such fairness of spirit. As a first-timer I was indeed very nervous but as I gain more experience that should improve. I hope to compete again in another year.

I have also PMed you.

Cheers!

Diane Taylor

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: nutty
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 08:15 AM

Just wanted to say again that I was only passing on comments that had been made.
The problem will never arise again as now people will know that stewards and volunteers are eligible.

Saltburn is a great festival, pity about the weather which was about as bad as it could be, but that didn't seem to dampen the enthusiasm.

Thanks to those people that came to the FOLK ON THE INTERNET workshops.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: nutty
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 07:54 AM

This was not sour grapes Mick.

I was pointing out the fact that this information was not readily available unless you entered the competition.

All other info .... even from Ray (see this thread 7th August), states the need for a personally purchased FULL WEEKEND TICKET in order to be eligible.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 06:08 AM

Cheers Mick (McGarry)aka ossonflags

Ray

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: ossonflags
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 05:40 AM

Mary and mine first time at Saltburn and we had a great time.Many thanks to Ray and everyone who made it so.It is a shame things like this should surface after the event. In the intrest of clarity I should like to point a couple of things out;

I was one of those who competed in the Fred Jordan trophy and did recieve a copy of the rules - they are in front of me as I write this - the rules were available to all those who wished to enter the competition.

Rule (6) states:"All entrants will normally be expected to have purchased a weekend ticket.Anyone attending the festival in the capacity of a steward or a booked guest who wishes to enter the competition must have the written permission of the festival organisor (see entry form)"

This is certainly not sour grapes on my part, Dave was clearly displaying his stewards badge at the competition so it could be assumed that he had this written permission from John Taylor.

I have pm'd you on this Ray

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: nutty
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 05:19 AM

I was just passing on the mutterings, Ray, but have to admit that I wasn't aware that Stewards were eligible .... this does need to be clearer for another year.

The only previous case I have come across when someone without a weekend ticket won a competition at Saltburn, was when John Taylor allowed them to enter on condition that they bought a day ticket.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: CannieShieldsLaddie
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 05:05 AM

Fair enough Ray you got that previous post in just before me
so was blind to your comment.

Verdict rescinded.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 04:57 AM

'There were people there who had not entered due to non purchase of season ticket'.


Express permission was only ever envisaged for Stewards!! has been in place many years

The competition is for Season Ticket holders!!

please read what I said above Billy

the competition is not totally free

there are many Stewards who give a great deal of time to this thankless task and are extremly accomplished singers too

But are barred from entry on the basis of 'not personally purchased'usual not to permit booked guests from entering

Ray

Ray

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: CannieShieldsLaddie
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 04:23 AM

Agree with Nutty

There were people there who had not entered due to non purchase of season ticket.

There was no mention of express permission from John Taylor in the programme
Or on the website which clearly states

Each competitor must have purchased a Full weekend ticket to take part


Verdict

The tour de France winner was stripped of his title after testing positive.

This contestant should be stripped of the title for a blatant breach of the rules (no ticket) and as a supposed steward should have known better.

A ten-year ban on entry to all future competitions should be imposed.

Public flogging should follow.

Ooops bit harsh perhaps

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 04:20 AM

Anyone who has asked about entry qualifications has always been told that they must have express permission of John Taylor if they haven't got a weekend ticket! e.g Stewards

This often deters those who are not serious entrants as the competition is designed for those who are happy to enter and enjoy singing and who aren't necessarily from the area and have a ticket

Stewards often have their own work load at that time anyway

I believe Peter Hayden has entered on permission in the past too

I had only one phone call this year asking about the competition

Although I did have a few calls in previous years when the competition was set up

I believe the rules and entry form are perfectly understandable and they have been in place from the inception of the competition and although undertaken in The Spirit of Folk song singing Art must be seen to be totally fair and impartial

I would add tnat John Taylor knows and has a record of all weekend ticket holders who bought a ticket!!

I may be able to have the Rules printed in Folk Roundabout via Trevor but that will only cover the North East!

Ray

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: nutty
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 03:51 AM

As I understand it Ray .. he did have John Taylor's permission but the problem remains that many people who thought they were not eligible to enter (because of your stated rules), would have entered if they had known that they did not have to personally purchase a FULL weekend ticket.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 03:45 AM

My understanding is that the winner had express permission of John Taylor or that he had a ticket for the weekend as you state Hazel (this is on the form which he signed designed by me and on all advertising of the competition)

I take such statements signed by entrants as being binding and any breach very seriously indeed. I have known Dave many years and would not believe that he has done anything wrong

A copy of my rules was circulated to all entrants just before the start and highlights 'personally purchased a ticket or express permission of John Taylor'

If any breach has occurred then I am afraid it would negate his first place position

I will have a word with John Taylor too asap

Many Thanks
Ray

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: 8_Pints
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 06:58 PM

Hi,

Certainly a great finale last night!

Spoke to Betsy at the Festival close and agreed that the main objective was the sharing of performances, not the academic study of song for its own sake.

Still believe there's room for the ocassional well sung ballad though despite him trying to wind me up about long, boring ballads. The two are not mutually exclusive!

Brilliant choices of song: "Stormy Weather" and "Those Were the Days" to finish.

Impressed also that Marie Little stayed to the bitter end.

This was a lovely way to end the festival amongst friends: old & new.

Bob & Sue vG

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: nutty
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 05:03 PM

I know running such events is difficult Ray , but I did hear a few mutterings after the event, with regards to what seemed to be a breech of (or bending of)the rules.

You had previously stated that ALL entrants had to have a FULL festival ticket. It appears that the winner only had a Stewards Badge.

Any chance you could explain that??

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: r.padgett
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:13 PM

Yep Harvey Andrews is Harvey Andrews, Jake I believe I told Betsy is Rolf Harris

Well I ought to thank and will all who entered the Fred Jordan Competition for Unaccompanied singers

Won by Dave Howdon, Dave and his missus sing at many Folk festivals and do lots of stewarding [Gateshead]

( NO I DID NOT judge!!)

Really high standard again and Alan Hine what a smashing bloke and great enthusiasm, his Missus not entered this year due to throat problems, John Cherry wants to win his trophy back next year (last years winner), [York] Sue Dewsbury (Sooz) [Gainsboro]lovely singer
Mick McGarry, I have been in his company many times this year, little known fact he's made upmteen CDs already [ossonflags]likes a pint!

Diane Taylor first attempt, a bit nervous but had sung great chorus songs before and after the competition, enter againg Diane please!!
[Middlesborough]
Arthur Laidlaw has a lovely high range voice and some nice songs [entered a number years [Cheers Arthur]

Anne Curran draw coincided with the singer songwriters competition and Anne had to go so didn't sing!! pity lovely Irish singer

Jim Lee, my old mate from Leeds drawn last always entertains and has been singing many years


Can only be one winner, so many thanks to all who had the guts to enter and I hope that you all understand that there can only be ONE WINNER ~

See you all next year and keep singing!!

I think Adrian from Sheffield won the Singer Songwriters

O and thanks to Glen Osborne, who works hard every year (last year he he was nearly run over going home on his motorbike)a smashing bloke and good company and judge this year!!

Cheers
Ray

Ps thanks to John Taylor, Paul and all the committee!!

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: Betsy
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 02:51 PM

Just had a minor bollicking from Sooz and Mike - I DID see them, also saw GedPipes and I thought Harvey Andrews. Someone also told me that Mudcatter Jake the Peg is a well known entertainer, and of course now I think of it Sapper82. Ding Dong I'm staring to have too many "senior moments ".
Cheers
Betsy

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: sapper82
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 12:30 PM

Thought you'd been enjoying yourself when I saw you in the Spa Betsy!
Good weekend despite the weather and not being able to get in for a swim during the weekend!

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: Betsy
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 11:35 AM

I'm nursing a bad head from last nights finishing singaround.
Mudcatters ?? Didn't meet Sooz - we must have been ships in the night
Met Ossonflags and his missus Mary (after more than 30 years) and shared some songs and wonderful memories of the Hull scen. Also met Mudcatters Nutty, Magician,Gillie, Padgett, and, Col gave me my badge in lieu of Tig.
The weather was shite - but the music,song people and craic was great , and I am still amazed how the ubiquitous Wilson Family kept up their phenominal workload. Nice to see Gary and Vera on top form ,I hadn't seen them for a quite few years also.

Cheers

Betsy

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: sapper82
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 10:57 AM

Just got back at 14:30, only a 2½h run, car & trailer dekitted and most of the kit sorted.
Now ready for a bath and an early night!!

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: GUEST,Rob Henderson
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 10:19 AM

We were in the Back Alex most of the time that I was at the festival. I will have been the daft drunk lad with the long hair, hmmmm like there wasn't many of them around this weekend :)

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: Sooz
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 08:50 AM

We've just arrived home after a great weekend. Nice to greet several Mudcatters, although not as many as I expected! Perhaps they weren't in the same places as what we were.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: GUEST,Sapper in the Cybercafe
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 06:32 AM

Bloody wet and stormy weekend, but still worth it!

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival. 2005 & 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 02:39 PM

Now Showing on the Saltburn Webcast: Evelyn May Trio.

Click here for the webcast

Next up is free for all singing at 9.00pm

Steve Thompson
Tees Valley Community Media

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 12:38 PM

Absolutely wonderful, thanks.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 12:37 PM

Wow just found the webcast so now I can feel part of it all even from my sick bed. Cheered me up :0))

Subject: Saltburn Folk Festival
From: GUEST,Steve Thompson
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 09:26 AM

Currently wecasting performances from Saltburn Folk Festival Click here for Webcast Site - also check the picture wall of images

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 07:41 AM

Sadly i am now laid up in bed with a bucket. Hope you all have fun sing some for me!

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: Gillie
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 06:53 AM

That's per person, for the whole weekend. :-)

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 05:25 PM

I will be arriving tomorrow morning. To go back to camping costs Bob was correct it is £12 per person for ticket holders (and performers) so I am driving in each day.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: nutty
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 05:07 AM

I'm aiming to get there early this afternoon.

See you all there.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: r.padgett
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 03:15 PM

Guest A I do agree with virtually all you say, but not everyone sings or plays or drinks even

Festivals do put on concerts for such people and long may it be so

Some artists make a living out of such, or try to

This has to be financed somehow and brings their talents to many more people than sit in the pub

Sessions and singarounds can be had at many places as fringe events and to be honest I prefer singarounds to concerts. But if I want to see someone I will gladly pay. However I have run singarounds at festivals for many years and often returned home having seen nothing of the guests!!

Ray

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: Betsy
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 05:27 AM

I hope you make yeself known Ossonflags - looking forward to it.
I hope you might be tipsy and happy rather than word you used.
I should never have used that word in a song I wrote but tipsy and happy didn't fit !!

Cheers,

Betsy .

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: GUEST,A
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 05:26 AM

Ok so it's "thread creep" but...
There are a couple of issues that are being repeated here and are at leastworth trying to discuss:
1. Lots of people mention money as if that is the factor behind my choice not to go to concerts/buy weekend tickets. That isn't the case, I could easily pay for a ticket and not use it: in fact like "retired" I have done exactly that in the past. What is important for me is that sense of community from being in sessions and singarounds, the idea that lots of people have lots to contribute. It's one of the (many) things that makes the folk scene so appealing to me. I don't like the artificial barrier between "artist" and "audience" that a concert setting promotes. I prefer the spontaneity and intimacy od good sessions; and I love the sheer joy of someone sitting unobtrusively all day/night then producing a moment of pure beauty that makes everyone think how privileged they've been to hear it.

2. Alcohol has been mentioned a lot too. It is present of course and sometimes prominent but the implication is that because of it, sessions tend to be a drunken rabble.
Sorry Ray, ("If you wish to simply spend your time boozing and singing and playing to your circle of friends,fine but it does get boring!") whilst I agree that a closed insular session of drunks isn't much fun for everyone else' most sessions I've been to, esecially singing ones, seem to be very welcoming and not excesively Bachanalian.


A
If I knew how to start a thread, I just might do that for this..

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: ossonflags
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 05:09 AM

Be nice to see you again Betsy after all these years.

You will probably recognise me, I will be the drunk one with a beard singing songs.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 04:44 AM

I have bought many a season ticket for festivals, and then spent most of the weekend playing in pubs! The line up at Saltburn looks cracking and is well worth the ticket price. It's probably me that's changed from a seated spectator to a participating session monkey!!

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 04:01 AM

There are singaround festivals which cost vitually nothing if you want to do your own thing

Guests inspire others to strive to get better to be 'booked' and be seen for club and FFs

If you wish to simply spend your time boozing and singing and playing to your circle of friends,fine but it does get boring!

and I like alaugh with old and new friends who I dont see every week

Ray

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: Betsy
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 08:16 PM

I understand "retired" , and it's an interesting view point This is not purely a Saltburn issue - what about Cambridge etc. without any booked guests.
Retired - why not start a new thread ( I won't steal your thunder by doing so ) "DO FESTIVALS NEED BOOKED GUESTS". I think you would open a great debate.
Look forward to seeing you all in a day or two.
Cheers

Betsy

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: John Routledge
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 11:48 AM

Wish that I had said what retired said.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: sapper82
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 11:10 AM

That's the trailer packed and t'other½ really looking forward to getting rid of us all tomorrow for a quiet weekend!
Only got the stove, small tents, sleeping bags and personal gear to go.
Early start, pitch tent and off to Runswick Bay for the now traditional pre-festival swim!!!

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 09:07 AM

I wish I'd said all that! Hear hear Guest A.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: GUEST,A
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 09:02 AM

With the greatest of respect, my thinking is anything but muddled and I don't appreciate the implication.
The issue is not one of money, it's one of preference.

I choose not to go to concerts as I prefer to sit and listen to the "unknowns" who make the folk scene what it is; a shared enthusiasm; and one that can be participated in.

It is not "paid for courtesy of those who buy tickets". It is created by those who sit in the pubs and sessions. It is possible ( though never easy) to organise concerts and have an audience turn up and I, along with many others, know this from experience but that doesn't constitute a festival.

The ambience of a weekend depends on those who create the sessions and singarounds; it depends on the venues being prepared to accept this "invasion" ; it depends on the residents in a town/village/community accepting the invasion as they can see how i might add some colour to their weekends.
In short, it does not depend on the concerts.

And..who said it is a truth that "the survival of the festival will depend, and probably does depend, on sponsorship and grants"?

Why go down that road of booking "stars" or making grant applications?

I know of two Irish weekends, both of which were grant and sponsorship assisted, that lost their funding and decided to end things. In both cases, the people who had attended said "I don't think so" and arrangements were made to turn up as in the past. In both cases they now have thriving, albeit slightly smaller, weekends on the go again.
One of them has started re-booking guests, the other, despite being offered new funding, has chosen to stick with the "no guest" setup.

Additionally, I was at a weekend earlier this year in Scotland, organised without guests and with only 2 small venues on the go. Everyone who turned up had a great time. It will be on next year too.

As I said in my initial post, I respect the wishes of those who choose to attend concerts, I simply ask for the same resepct in return.
Accusing me of muddled thinking doesn't exactly engender mutual respect does it?
A

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 07:03 AM

I respect their right to want a different experience to me, all I look for is the same in return...

Paid for courtesy of those who buy tickets. Very muddled thinking. In the end the survival of the festival will depend, and probably does depend, on sponsorship and grants. Come the economic hard times, these will vanish. However, I have never understood the folkie who complains of paying a few quid on the door and then spends twice as much on a couple of rounds.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 06:54 AM

Agreed Guest each to his own enjoy the festival!
Ray

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 06:21 AM

I've had this "weekend tickets support a festival and everyone else freeloads" argument often.
I tend to go to festivals for sessions and singarounds and not for concerts but in my opinion that isn't "not supporting the festival".

I support festivals by (I hope) contributing to the atmosphere of the weekend. Concerts can be staged anywhere, the rest is what makes a weeeknd. If everyone just went to concerts, regardless of size/intimacy then who would be at sessions etc? What would make it any different from a concert staged at any point in a year??

I buy pints in the local pubs, I shop locally whilst I'm there and I support the festival by singing in the singarounds and to me that's plenty.
I don't wish to criticise those who want to sit in concerts and not go to sesions/singarounds, I respect their right to want a different experience to me, all I look for is the same in return...

A

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 03:50 AM

Many shops and pubs help festivals by advertising in the programme. This helps to pay for guests as well as the ticket/camping money.

Saltburn is a small Victorian seaside town, quite compact and a lovely place worth patronising

'Guest' give it a try! I bet you'll buy your pint tho'

Ray

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: Northerner
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 06:53 PM

I'm going and I have a weekend ticket.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 06:49 PM

I don't see how supporting shops and pubs helps a festival that needs income.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: nutty
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 02:41 PM

It doesn't really matter. Concert venues are quite small at Saltburn so if you are a 'concert' person you really need a ticket to make sure of a seat. You also need a ticket to get into the late night extra's at the Spa.

But just coming along brings trade to the local shops, pubs, cafes etc. sio you are supporting the festival either way.

Subject: RE: Saltburn Folk Festival.
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 02:34 PM

Are any of you actually paying to go to concerts or are you all just going for the free fringe?