BS: Ireland at Peace

Subject: BS: IRELAND AT PEACE
From: The Curator
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:15 PM

Besides the on going incidents in Ballymena, I am glad to say my country seems to have embraced the peace initiative brought about by the IRA statement last July. Now that my country is at peace it's time that I was, without allegations or insinuations. So without sounding too melodramatic it's fairwell from to Mudcat for me. Thanks to everyone who contributed to my threads and took the time to answer my posts. Don't worry I won't be doing a re-entry under another name, I promise that.
Seamus Mac Giolla Mhuire (The Curator).

Subject: RE: BS: IRELAND AT PEACE
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:22 PM

Farewell and good luck. You were interesting to read.

Subject: RE: BS: IRELAND AT PEACE
From: *Laura*
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 07:02 PM

And just like that - peace broke out.

Subject: RE: BS: IRELAND AT PEACE
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 09:01 PM

Hallelujah

Subject: RE: BS: IRELAND AT PEACE
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 12:02 AM

Curator,

Slan leat.

Subject: RE: BS: IRELAND AT PEACE
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 03:17 AM

I'd rather you stayed and the shower of 'pretenders' left. Their debating skills are few.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 04:11 AM

Cheers Jim and good luck - Call back in and see how we are behaving without you every now and again:-)

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 04:12 AM

The full price for that "peace" is yet to be paid I think.
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 04:39 AM

Good riddance.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: mooman
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 05:13 AM

All the best to you.

Peace

Richard McElroy-Moore

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: GUEST,Keith A o Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 05:20 AM

Sorry you are leaving Jim.
Good luck with the on going issues that your family are dealing with.
You have mentioned music in your posts. Is there no interest to you in the top deck of the forum?
All the best,
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 06:06 AM

I don't think it is a prerequisite that anybody visits 'the top deck', Keith.
Not if the BS about music is just as bad as the BS some of you eejits spread around 'below decks'.

ted pops 100 posts and has never engaged in debates regarding any subject remotely Irish, and he has the audacity to say 'Good Riddance'?

It's a sad day for free speech, tolerance, and a great day for pre judgement.

Some of you fuckers can chide. Some of us are holding a minute's silence here.

You wish it were longer of course
Tough shit, however, gentle readers.
You will continue to be brought to task, and your prejudices and dirty tricks will continue to be uncovered

Seamus: Thank you on behalf of myself and my associates, and I'm sure, the wider Nationalist bloc on this forum.

Tiochfaidh ar lá, ar ndóigh.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: Stu
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 07:02 AM

All the best Seamus - it's been a pleasure debating with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 07:26 AM

I don't think it is a prerequisite that anybody visits 'the top deck', Keith.

And I don't read any such suggestion from Keith. I thought Keith was suggesting he still came back and read occasionaly in the music session if he was giving up on the BS. Methinks you are reading into what he said what you want to find.

You will continue to be brought to task, and your prejudices and dirty tricks will continue to be uncovered

Well I for one am not overly sorry to see Curator go for reasons of prejudice/and or bitterness from his part.

It's funny really. For years I used to sing rebel songs but stopped when I really started thinking about the killing of innocent people (from any side), my own desires for Ireland would come down in favour of a united Ireland, I play a lot of Irish music, have had happy times with friends in Dublin, am an associate member of a local Irish society and play in thier traditional music dos, etc.

Yet any voice of dislike of the more extreme attitudes can be put down by some of you as being anti-Irish to the extent we hate you. You read what you want to read and need to remove your own blinkers.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 07:52 AM

And you obviously haven't been paying attention to the content of the posts, Jon

Your desire for us to have our United Ireland, must have come with some nod given towards the Armed Struggle, Jon; you used to sing 'Rebel' songs, remember.

Blinkered is one thing.
Not knowing your arse from your elbow is something else.

You're Welsh, or something, arent you?

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 08:58 AM

Your desire for us to have our United Ireland, must have come with some nod given towards the Armed Struggle, Jon; you used to sing 'Rebel' songs, remember.

Not really Tir. when I did start thinking about the Armed Struggle, I stopped singing them. It was more a case of a) singing songs I'd mostly learned from the Dubliners and Clanceys as a kid and getting swept along by romantic ideas that suddenly turned into realities of people getting bombed, etc. and things I didn't want to be giving a nod too. I suppose you could say I grew up.

I'm not Welsh Tir.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 09:09 AM

I love singing rebel songs. As a matter of fact, I'm doing it right now!

Seamus, will miss you in the posts. What some saw as bitterness and prejudice the rest of us knew as truth. We thank you for not being afraid to say what so many are.

Slan, E

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 09:50 AM

It's good that you started to think a bit more, Jon.

Take your thinking a bit further, in that case, and ponder on the fact that the 'Ireland' you enjoy coming to was hard fought for. Armed-Strugglewise

You're like all the rest of your mob; you take the bits that appeal to you; not see their significance, and look down your nose at the rest.

Hypocrisy, it's called

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 10:03 AM

Tir, if I would bomb innocent people for the sake of any cause of my own, then I would agree with hypocrisy.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 10:03 AM

Time for the watercolours again.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 10:03 AM

Time for the watercolours again.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: Tirghra
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 10:06 AM

Really? Seems to be more like time for hiding behind "GUEST" actually.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 10:12 AM

It happens a lot, Tirghra. No, Jon, if you would bomb innocent people for any cause of your own, you wouldn't be a hypocrite, you'd be a loyalist.

E

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 10:12 AM

So what you're saying is you just became like the rest of the ruminants, Jon.

Anyone who can say that The Curator's posts are laced with "prejudice/and or bitterness" doesn't deserve the hospitality of my country

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 10:13 AM

... forgot to put my name to the above...

You don't deserve it, Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: Tirghra
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 10:14 AM

To be sure, Epona.
Or a member of the RUC, or should I say PSNI? Same group regardless, despite the new name. Jon, research the Rosemary Nelson case and then discuss bombing innocent people.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 10:22 AM

Inquiry coming up next autumn into that...The truth will be shown to the world on that one, Tirghra.

Tir Eoghain, we know the truth. :)

E

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: Fergie
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 01:19 PM

I sincerely hope that we have seen the last of all the tragic loss of life caused by "the troubles".

I for one never want to see another headline recording the death or injury of another human being in the name of Freedom.

Its so nice to go to Armagh and cycle the roads and not be stopped by soldiers and policemen. Its so nice to call into a village in Co Down and have a plesant half hour conversation with an old farmer and not give a damn whether he is a Catholic or a Protestant, to sit in a pub and drink a pint and not have to worry about whether it is a loyalist pub or a republican pub. It is so nice to drive to and visit the graves of my C of I ancestors in Lurgan and not have to worry whether my "republican" car tyres will have air in them when I return to it.

I hope the progress made gives the lie to the words of Padraig Pearse as he spoke the oration over the grave of O'Donovan Rossa
"The fools, the fools, the fools, they have left us our Fenians dead annd while Ireland hold these graves, Ireland unfree shall never be at peace"

Fergus

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: alanabit
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 02:50 AM

Curator, I have often disagreed with what you have said and I have always deplored the violence from all sources. Thank God, the worst of that seems to be over and we can talk. If I agree with someone all the time, it usually means that I am talking to myself. You are as welcome at Mudcat as anyone else. Why not stick around and have a chat?

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: PoppaGator
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 03:28 AM

If Ireland can live in peace, Seamus, then so can you live in peace with the rest of us here. Like it says in Ecclesia.. like it says in the Bible, and in Pete Seeger's lyric, there's a time for everything.

As a pacifist American, I can admire and honor the memory of the revolutionaries who won independence for both our countries from Britain, and for the men of my father's generation who defeated Hitler. However, I can still believe that in this and all coming eras, when weaponry exists that can destroy the deployer along with the target, and when corporate interests have become more powerful than nations, armed conflict is obsolete, counterproductive, and just plain stupid. All with all due respect to the millons throughout history who have risked and sacrificed all for their people.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 06:36 AM

Hold on everyone, someone calling themselves the Curator whatever that means, is this person the Curator of some Monastry in some paceful little spot in Ireland.

Having read the BBC news, the Northern Ireland bulletins, I see that while the nationalists are holding to the peace process, the opposite seems to be the case with the loyalists, on a daily basis Catholics seem to be bearing the brunt of loyalists mayhem, Catholics being murdered, Churches burned, Schools burned, Catholics being hounded from their home by Loyalists thugs, and the battle for terrority in the streets by the loyalists, resulting in four deaths in the last few weeks.

Peace?, please someone, tell the Curator to leave the Monastry and try his luck around the streets of Ballymena.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: GUEST,GUEST2
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 07:34 AM

GUEST1 I think if you read his post you may find he did address the situation in Ballymena. If you trawl his threads/posts you'll find it is unlikely he's in any Monastry. Just you go back son and read away at the BBC bulletins. Sounds like you were one of the observers in Northern Ireland and little else.Maybe your about to go to Ballymena and fight for the cause ?? Keep all of us informed.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 08:25 AM

Fergie, I admire the basic intent of your message, but am I misunderstanding your use of Pearce's quote? It seems to imply that it is a lie. While I am applauding the sentiment here, the fact is that the issue in the North is not finished as is made clear by several of the GUEST posts preceding this one. The Nationalists are suffering from what is virtually a pogrom and the authorities are doing very little to stop it. This is a recipe for failure, as the good intent will soon be outweighed by the ballons filled with piss that are being thrown at school children.

Pearce's statement is more true today than it was then. If the authorities don't get a hand on the Loyalist thugs, I fear this will have all been for naught.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 11:42 AM

The truth is out there, log on to the BBC, Nothern Ireland and after reading of the mayhem created by the loyalists, come back and tell Big Mick and Guest they are wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: Fergie
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 11:55 AM

Big Mick, Ireland unfree will never be at peace.
I just hope that the politicians can grasp the nettle and accept that Ireland has only one way to go and that is towards reunification. Preferibly under a government of reconciliation that will respect the ideal of human rights for all and place mutual respect, tolerance and parity of esteem at the top of the agenda.
I don't know where that type of leadership can be found. Fianna Fail, the PDs and Fine Gael are all bankrupt of ideas. Labour sits on the fence, Loyalists of almost every hue are blinkered by their sectarianism, eliteism and fear.
The leadership of Sinn Fein seem progressive and open, but they are tainted by the unacceptible actions of the movement prior to their seeing the light.
I for one see little light at the end of the tunnel.
It makes my blood boil to see the media accept without question the "new" face of Ian Paisley. Without exception the main stream media now portray him as some sort of moderate, where has the Ian Paisley of the anti civil rights campaign disappeared to? Where has the footage of the Rev Ian standing above Burntollet Bridge exhorting the BSpecials to drive the "Fenian scum" into the sea, where has that footage disappeared to? That was and is the real Ian Paisley, his vindict and hatred of republicans is as strong as ever and his motto is still "not an inch, no surrender". He will never share power with Catholics and Republicans, he will always seek to find new excuses to exclude the minority. I think that he and his ilk would welcome a return to conflict.
Enough said,I feel very pessimistic for the future.
Fergus

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 12:52 PM

We may have to wait for the Yasser Arafat solution with Ian Paisly: him to hurry up and die so something he is standing in the way of can move again. And hope it's not stuck to the spot in the meantime....

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 01:30 PM

Happily for Ireland, Mr Curator does not speak for the entire population, and noting Fergie's comments above I could name dozens of other Irish folks who feel the same way.

If those who claim to speak for Ireland would shut up, even for a month, then the rest of the people could be heard and its not about the 'North' and its problems they are talking.

How about the price of petrol, or the changing weather and its effects on the island?

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: ard mhacha
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 01:47 PM

The price of petrol is very relevant as it must be cheaper in Northern Ireland than elsewhere, this I gauge from the number of petrol bombs being thrown at the home of Catholic Churches, and nationalists homes.

Keep your eye on BBC Northern Ireland, the peace process has never entered the Loyalist scheme of things.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: Stu
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:00 PM

What's wrong with the Welsh, anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: Tirghra
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:18 PM

It is evident, sorefingers, that you have an obvious issue with the North, and I wonder why that is. As far as listening to the people of Ireland and what is hurting them...yes they cry about the price petrol. They grumble about their government, like people across the world. But the cries I hear, which happen to be the most frequent and painful of all, are from weeping families and screaming children trying to understand why the police aren't protecting them while petrol bombs are raining down on their homes. Did you choose your name because your fingers are so sore from cramming them in your ears so as to avoid hearing those cries? Avoidance will not solve it, mate. The reality is thus: while you seem to not give a toss for the North and the horrible crimes being committed there, that doesn't make it any less real for the rest of us. And so, we will continue to speak about it until the rest of the world hears us.

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland at Peace
From: paddymac
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:43 PM

I wouldn't say there is peace in NI merely because the IRA has stood down. The victims of the on-going loyalist attacks likely wouldn't say so either. Some NI donosaurs likely need to pass before the possibilities of new mindsets are likely to bear fruit. For example, the roaring reverend excoriating the people who have been vandalizing the churches in Ballymena, the saying "Of course, they wouldn't listen to me", or words to that effect. Seems as though he expects the world to listen to every other pronouncement he makes, regardless of merit, but here, when it might hae some positive effect, he begs off. BS! He'll be gone ere long, and maybe then saner folk might be heard. There are, however, some unusual things goin on there, like PSNI sweeps and raids in a loyalist stronghold, and Presbyterians helping the Catholics clean up the their church after the vandalism. Hope springs eternal. But, like in days gone by (hopefully) they (PSNI) still seem all to0 able to selectively ignore criminality. Peace won't happen overnight, but, because of the daring leadership of the IRA, it seems possible to say the place is at least moving along the right road, even if two steps forward and one or two backward. Time, ladies and gentlemen, time is what is needed.