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Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?

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GUEST,Art Thieme 05 Sep 05 - 10:19 PM
GUEST,jhealey1@bigpond.com 05 Sep 05 - 11:03 PM
GUEST,Art Thieme 05 Sep 05 - 11:42 PM
Bev and Jerry 06 Sep 05 - 12:54 AM
GUEST,Art Thieme 06 Sep 05 - 01:07 AM
Joe Offer 06 Sep 05 - 01:11 AM
Le Scaramouche 06 Sep 05 - 03:22 AM
Malcolm Douglas 06 Sep 05 - 03:47 AM
The Borchester Echo 06 Sep 05 - 04:03 AM
Malcolm Douglas 06 Sep 05 - 04:11 AM
GUEST 06 Sep 05 - 06:42 AM
John O'L 06 Sep 05 - 06:47 AM
gnomad 06 Sep 05 - 08:58 AM
gnomad 06 Sep 05 - 09:06 AM
sapper82 06 Sep 05 - 10:00 AM
GUEST,DB 06 Sep 05 - 11:56 AM
Les B 06 Sep 05 - 12:16 PM
GUEST 06 Sep 05 - 04:59 PM
The Borchester Echo 06 Sep 05 - 05:38 PM
michaelr 06 Sep 05 - 07:55 PM
Guy Wolff 06 Sep 05 - 09:31 PM
Malcolm Douglas 06 Sep 05 - 09:53 PM
GUEST,DB 07 Sep 05 - 10:33 AM
The Borchester Echo 07 Sep 05 - 10:39 AM
Kevin Sheils 07 Sep 05 - 10:56 AM
The Borchester Echo 07 Sep 05 - 11:26 AM
Claire M 30 Sep 12 - 09:48 AM
Herga Kitty 30 Sep 12 - 08:28 PM
Claire M 10 Mar 14 - 03:48 PM
GUEST,leeneia 11 Mar 14 - 10:27 AM
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Subject: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 10:19 PM

I'm wondering tonight, was Steeleye Span a real person---and what is the story there??

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: GUEST,jhealey1@bigpond.com
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 11:03 PM

Go here :-
http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/steeleye.span/name.html

^^ and all will be revealed


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 11:42 PM

I've heard the song----and now I know. Thanks a lot. That's as much immortality as any of us songsters are likely to achieve. Quite a good go I would think. May he rest in peace!!!

Art


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 12:54 AM

"Horkstow Grange" appears in the latest issue of Sing Out!.

Bev and Jerry


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 01:07 AM

I knew I'd heard it "recently". It's on the CD that came with my new issue of Sing Out! Those CDs, with all the songs in the current issue, are a wonderful feature of the upgraded subscription to that good magazine. Old friend, Mark Moss, does a grand job as editor of the venerable old rag. ---- Long may they wave!!!

Covering all that passes for "folk music" these days somewhat fairly is a difficult job.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 01:11 AM

I suppose I'd be subjected to musch laughter and derision if I were to admit that I used to get Steeleye Span confused with Steely Dan. I didn't bother listening to Span because I knew I didn't like Dan.
But I've learned to tell the difference - in my old age.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 03:22 AM

Ha, I used to get them muddled too.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 03:47 AM

The song has been found only once in tradition; George Gouldthorpe of Brigg, Lincolnshire, sang it and Percy Grainger recorded him on 6 September 1905; a century ago today as it happens.

"John Bowling was a foreman at a farm at Horkstow, and John Steeleye Span was a waggoner under him. They fell out and J S Span made these verses".

The tune is a form of the familiar Constant Billy, used for Morris dancing; and for the ballad The Death of Parker.

"Steely Dan", on the other hand, was a maniacal dildo in a Leonard Cohen novel unless my memory quite fails me.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 04:03 AM

I seem to recall a failed attempt by Steely Dan to get an injunction to prevent Steeleye Span using the name when they were about to tour the US for the first time.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 04:11 AM

Doomed to failure in the circumstances. On reflection, I think the dildo was called "Steely Dan the Third".


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 06:42 AM

I love the idea of a maniacal dildo lol


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: John O'L
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 06:47 AM

Wasn't The dildo from Burroughs' novel 'The Naked Lunch'?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: gnomad
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 08:58 AM

Just as an aside, the song Horkstow Grange says that the deeds of Tom Bowlin will be remembered, so...

The noted Lincolnshire song researcher and performer Bran Dawson, when in the area, actually tried asking around to see what was remembered locally. He concluded that the songwriter was mistaken, as he could find nobody who knew anything of the matter.

It appears to be only the folkies who remember, the bard's function in action!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: gnomad
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 09:06 AM

Make that BrIan Dawson, but then you knew that eh?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: sapper82
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 10:00 AM

Coope, Boyes and Simpson's latest CD Triple Echo has a supurb version of Horkstow based on the original Percy Grainger recording.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 11:56 AM

Percy Grainger's original recording of 'Horkstow Grange', sung by George Gouldthorpe, was on the Leader LP, 'Unto Brigg Fair - Joseph Taylor and other traditional Lincolnshire singers recorded in 1908 by Percy Grainger' LEA 4050, 1972. This is an amazing record which should be essential listening for anyone interested in traditional song. The extensive notes, by Bob Thomson, are very interesting and enlightening.
Unfortunately the LP is long 'out of print' (if that is the correct term?!). I don't suppose there is any prospect of it coming out on CD - but we live in hope!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: Les B
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 12:16 PM

I'm a bit confused by the liner notes (linked above) and the words of the actual song. who came out the "worse for wear" Steeleye Span or John Bowling ?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 04:59 PM

Coope, Boyes and Simpson's recording of ther song from thier recent CD is the one on CD from Sing Out! too.

Art


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 05:38 PM

Hey, Guest DB, I wonder if you are Dave Bland who once worked for Leader/Trailer? If so would you like to join up to Mudcat and PM me?

Diane


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 07:55 PM

Thanks for enlightening me. You never stop learning here at Mudcat.

I had always thought Steeleye Span referred to a bridge over a river full of fish.

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 09:31 PM

Years ago I thought all the members of the group had GREY eyes so making a "STEEL eyed SPAN ". Not a joke . i realy thought that. I was glad when I heard Tony Berandand (sp?) John Roberts vertion of the song . All the best , Guy


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 09:53 PM

Yes, the dildo "Steely Dan III" was from Burroughs. I seem to have confused it with another, similar instrument which goes berserk in a Cohen novel. I have copies of the books somewhere, but at the moment I can't find them.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 10:33 AM

Dear countess richard,

My name's not "Dave Bland", I'm afraid and I never worked for the revered Mr Leader - sorry!!

DB (another one)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 10:39 AM

Ah, shame, but thanks anyway for replying, DB. Does anyone know where the "real" Dave Bland" is? (Played banjo and concertina on Martyn Wyndham-Read's Ned Kelly and also on Christy Moore's Prosperous).


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 10:56 AM

Good try Countess, We'll track Dave Bland down one day soon. I've recently had the tape he made of me singing in 1971/2ish transferred to CD, what a young sounding lad I was!

Totally off topic for this thread but, as you've raised names from the past, Hans Freid (Fried?), ex Colletts record shop, dropped in to the Walthamstow Club on Sunday. Hadn't seen him in over 25 years I guess, he hadn't changed much once I realised who he was.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 11:26 AM

Hiya Kev

Hans works for the PRS these days, I think . . .

Why do these nice young men always drop by @ the Old Rose & Crown when I'm not there? Can you arrange a good selection next Sunday when I'll be there for the Jim Eldon Band please?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: Claire M
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 09:48 AM

Hiya,

I don't know, but when I saw friends from various places, we'd always get talking about music. It's my favourite subject & the one I find easiest to talk about. A lot of them liked older music & a fair few had seen said band   – "ooh I remember them! I used to love them!" – if I had mentioned John Bowlin they'd have asked me who he played for. So his deeds aren't remembered.

I'd have loved to see that fight if they were real people. Pretty obvious that Steeleye (the man) came out worse.

When I was little I thought Maddy Prior would look at me with her steely eyes & put a spell on me if I was naughty. I was frightened to death when I finally met her.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 08:28 PM

I met Maddy (singing with Tim Hart) when I was a teenager, and asked about one of her songs and she was very kind and gave me Geoff Wood's address, because he'd provided her with the source recordings (and he very kindly sent them to me too).

I also met Hans Fried in Collet's when I was a teenager and he sold me the Iron Muse and the Band... so quite eclectic and Transatlantic..

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: Claire M
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 03:48 PM

Hiya,

Love the band dearly. I love my folklore yet I've never seen *anything * re JB anywhere. No band named after him either. So p'raps JB came out worse.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Who was, and was Steeleye Span real?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Mar 14 - 10:27 AM

Until I saw it in writing, I thought the name of that band was Steel Ice Band.


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