BS: Canada's message

Subject: BS: Canada's message
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 08:52 PM

I am not a part of the Paul Martin fan club but considering that the Liberals are not my party of choice, I am damn proud. Imagine respecting the leader of the opposing party! At least he's sane and has the courage to speak up with eloquence.

In an address to the U.N.

"Clearly, we need expanded guidelines for Security Council action to make clear our responsibility to act decisively to prevent humanity's attack on humanity. The "Responsibility to Protect" is one such guideline. It seeks rules to protect the innocent against appalling assaults on their life and dignity. It does not bless unilateral action.

To the contrary, it stands for clear, multilaterally-agreed criteria on what the international community should do when civilians are at risk.

It is a powerful norm of international behaviour. And this week, we have taken a very important step to that end. We are proud that R2P has Canadian lineage, that it is now a principle for all the world. That being said, our collective responsibility does not end there. I would have hoped that we could have agreed now to make the new peace building commission operational. Building the peace is a huge undertaking and, to do it well, we need to bring order out of chaos."

...and in a speech outlining govt. action at home and relations with the U.S."

"NAFTA is not something to be ignored when it suits narrow domestic interests," Martin said, referring to the Bush government decision to ignore a recent NAFTA ruling that there is no basis to impose tariffs on Canadian softwood.

"Free and fair trade depends on a dispute settlement procedure that is respected by all parties." He said U.S. intransigence "mocks that basic principle."

Martin warned that, in light of continuing trade disputes with the U.S., Canada intends to focus more on trading opportunities in the burgeoning Asian market, specifically India and China."

So tell Bush to pay up or there won't be anymore Canadian wood or energy or water arriving in America anytime soon.

Have a little respect, eh!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 09:11 PM

"We are proud that R2P has Canadian lineage, that it is now a principle for all the world"

What is being talked about here? Please explain.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 09:19 PM

Clearly, we need expanded guidelines for Security Council action to make clear our responsibility to act decisively to prevent humanity's attack on humanity. The "Responsibility to Protect" is one such guideline. It seeks rules to protect the innocent against appalling assaults on their life and dignity. It does not bless unilateral action.

R2P + Resonsibility to Protect

Emphasis on, "It does not bless unilateral action."

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 09:20 PM

Energy- Add Canadian oil from Alberta's huge bitumen deposits? Canadian natural gas already is in the pipelines to the States, along with oil. Canada sends electric power also, but this seems like an interchange agreement.

PROBLEM- If Canadian products of all kinds aren't sold to Bushland, jobs and income disappear in Canada. China is also making deals with closer Russia and the Middle East, so just how much can Canada depend on trade with China and India?

I dunno- I don't have the trade expertise to analyse the situation, but it seems to me that it is better to deal primarily with people who have the same institutions and customs as we do. There have been arguments in the past and they were settled.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 09:23 PM

"R2P" is the official request form that United Nations employees fill out if they need to use the restroom. "R2P" stands for "Request To Pee". It's a simplified replacement for the old "PP3" which had to be filled out in triplicate.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 09:35 PM

Dianavan, R2P hasn't been brought to U. S. news, so Americans haven't heard of it. I listen to CNN, MSNBC etc., and the BBC daily, but don't recall it being mentioned; I doubt if European news agencies have bothered with Martin's speech.
NAFTA is a dirty word to many Americans (= lost jobs).

Martin made a nice speech. I hate to say it, but I'm afraid the mouse (Canada) has little clout.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 10:29 PM

Thats just it, Q, we have no clout at all.

We do, however, have the resources the U.S. desperately needs.

All we are asking is that the U.S. give Canada the 6 billion that they owe us.

It is true that jobs and income depend on exports but the U.S. is not our only trading partner and the flow of goods and services south can be disrupted and re-routed.

Is it too much to ask for what is fair and just?

Don't forget, if Canada can't trust you, who can? I think that your reputation as a trading partner is at stake.

Perhaps you think that because the U.S. has clout, they can just take whatever they want. Maybe you're right in thinking that they will attempt to do that, but believe me when I say it is not just one party of Canadians that stand behind Martin. He has spoken and at least he is speaking on behalf of all Canadians. Of this, we can be proud.

So what will you do when we blow up the pipeline the third time?

The U.S. should be hanging its head in shame.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 01:21 AM

You and Q have something in common, dianavan. He's a US ex-pat living in Canada also.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 02:01 AM

Thanks, Carol, somebody else has informed me of that fact.

I will re-phrase:

Thats just it, Q, we have no clout at all.

We do, however, have the resources the U.S. desperately needs.

All we are asking is that the U.S. give Canada the 6 billion that they owe us.

It is true that jobs and income depend on exports but the U.S. is not our only trading partner and the flow of goods and services south can be disrupted and re-routed.

Is it too much to ask for what is fair and just?

Don't forget, if Canada can't trust the U.S., who can? I think that its reputation as a trading partner is at stake.

Perhaps you think that because the U.S. has clout, they can just take whatever they want. Maybe you're right in thinking that they will attempt to do that, but believe me when I say it is not just one party of Canadians that stand behind Martin. He has spoken and at least he is speaking on behalf of all Canadians. Of this, we can be proud. The U.S. should be hanging its head in shame.

So what will be done when Kinder-Morgan's pipeline blows for the third time?

I think the only thing that will save Canada is to join the European Union and convert to Euros. We should slash our economic interdependence so that when the U.S. comes begging at our doorstep we can tell them to kiss our collective butts.

Until then, the U.S. will continue to plunder, lie, cheat and steal because we let them do it. We give them their power. Without us, they would be up shit creek without a paddle. Where else will they get their water?

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 02:34 AM

I would like a massage in Canada how much are they?

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 03:24 AM

Dianavan compared to Canada US trade over that time, 6 billion is peanuts. Canada had made that up ten times over with the Bush sponswered increase in the price of oil. Its best just to let them think they have won. They are less cranky that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: pdq
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 05:46 PM

Bruce Murdoch is a Canadian ex-pat, now living in Alberta.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: GUEST,G
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 05:59 PM

Good grief again. Haven'y you complained enough about GWB and now you want to take on all of us? Go ahead, start an embargo and see where you end up. Then, you will end of "kissing our collective butts".

Bee-Dub-eyell is correct about the R2P. And I will gladly pay more for US wood products while many of you won't have money for groceries.

Give it a rest, Dianavan. Don't make it so dam'n personal or we will pull all our auto plants back south of the border.

Please, join the European Union and when your 2 plane fighter squadron needs help, you can get it from France.

I am not upset at all, this has been too darn funny.
And, will you take a check?

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: gnu
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 07:12 PM

Well... maybe the next time we design your fighters, we'll keep the patents to ousrselves.

$$ for groceries? We supply the potash you use to grow yours.

YOUR auto plants? You mean all the Japanese plants you got?

By the way, it is spelled "cheque". That's the way it is spelled if you are a commonwealth country... part of the largest, most powerful military force on the earth.

You had better wake up. When the Canucks are the first ones in to your hurricane disater with rescue teams and the when the Canuck Navy beats the US army in and then gets told to shove it's emergency rations because it they contain Canuck beef because the US beef producers are engaged in a court battle over bullshit....

Oh, no sense in going on... about lumber or beef or potaoes or uranium or water or ... obviously, you know as much about Canada as GWB.

Just one more thing... you are welcome... and we will be there for you tomorrow, no matter how much the one tenth of one percent of Yanks you represent don't understand.

God bless the good old USA and the True North, Strong and Free! And fuck you, Guest G.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Peace
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 07:16 PM

Jaysus Keriste, gnu. YOU piss me off when you beat me to a post. However, you said it more eloquently that I could have. Mine would have been considerably shorter: basically, just your last four words.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: GUEST,GUEST,H
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 07:25 PM

Dear Guest G this is for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: gnu
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 07:26 PM

Hey, Peace. We are a peaceful bunch. But, Jaysus. Someone needs a fuckin history lesson. Just cause they outnumber us ten to one don't mean they can take us. Been there, done that. Still at it, apparently.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Peace
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 07:28 PM

Not much to take when all that's left is scorched earth.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: pdq
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 07:39 PM

Well, Peace B. Withew, we have some breaking news.

The US has just taken Alberta by force and declared it the 51st state!

Yep, all those missing National Guardsmen you folks though were in Iraq were actually getting into position along the Canadian border, disguised as pot smugglers and pronghorn antelope.

Good news though. We have chosen Ian Tyson as your new governor!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: GUEST,G
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 07:40 PM

Oh my goodness! So much false information from you, particulary gnu, and such thin skins. You guys have been beating up our Government for months now and we don't fly off the handle like you.

Actually, we just consider the source and realize it would be like pouring water down a rathole.
You might wait until this is all sorted out (Katrina) and then you won't be such pompous asses.

Guest H, I think he is cute and will get one on my next business trip to Vancover where I throughly enjoy the exchange rate.
Also, I am begining to think that mad cow disease up yonder is not limited to just the cows.

Have a nice evening and, like I said before, I am not upset over anything said by you. I still find it humorous and just wish your sense of humor were half as good as down here. The only serious thought I can have about you is why you have so much hatred in your souls that you have to take it out on another Countrys administration. My God, that must be such a heavy cross to bear. (The last sentence was for the atheists that congregate here.)

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Peace
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 07:43 PM

OK, that at least makes sense. Our present premiere is a dolt. Much like the American President, IMO. Thanks for the heads-up. However, I expect the attack has failed. We have over 50 Halliburton vehicles in northern Alberta and we're holding them for ransom. Don't dick with us. We are rednecks and we are impossible to reason with.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: gnu
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 07:44 PM

I must apologize to all my Yankee brothers. My words were harsh. Please understand that when anyone insults a Canuck, there is hell to pay. That's just the way we are. Same as you... well, most of you. Give you the shirt off our back. Same as most of you would.

Just... the thing is... lately, your big business has been fucking Canadians over, BIG time. Many of you Yanks might not realize this. But, it IS happening, big time. Little guys are getting screwed because Yankee big businees is not playing by the rules as agreed under NAFTA.

Now... if you want to throw out the rules, cool. But, don't keep kicking us in the nuts and then expect us to smile. Of course, we still will help out when you need us... Andrew, 9/11, Katrina, Rita...

Just don't push it eh? We are getting a bit tired of the bullshit.

BTW... when can we expect that cheque for $6.2B for the wood? Or, should we ship the next load to Japan?

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: GUEST,G
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 07:52 PM

Never, ever put yourself in a position where you feel you must apologize for something you said. You should always speak your mind and then later be at ease with regard to standing by it.

Okay? Good! And besides, your words were not considerd harsh. Just the same as what we have been reading here. We are reasonably intelligent and know what to expect from you

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: pdq
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 07:53 PM

Those 50 Halliburton vehicles? Full of trained insurgent supression experts! Think Trogan Hummers!

And Ian Tyson, good redneck that he is, has decided not to declare martial law, but has opted for Marshall Dillon!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: gnu
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 07:59 PM

Oh lord. Why do I do this? I should know better. No sense in nonsense... those are my own words. I guess I just get so pissed off sometimes and think that my venting might convey something... but, who am I kidding? Guest G said my words were false, so there it is.

I will trundle off now. No way I can compete with nonsense. No way I can instill any knowledge of history nor any compassion for honour.

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Peace
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 08:00 PM

Make that Marshall DYLAN and ya gotta deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Peace
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 08:06 PM

Hey, gnu. Before you go for the night: I just traded Alberta for fifty Halliburton vehicles, BUT we get Bob Dylan as the new marshall and Ian Tyson as the new premiere. Guest G will write news releases about how Alberta asked to be invaded because we want a Toyota plant in Edmonton. How do you think this will fly in the east?

Also, Guest G is a Bush apologist. Honour just ain't too high on the Bush priority list, so don't hold yer breath. Guest G doesn't speak for the US. He just thinks he does.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 08:12 PM

Don't worry, gnu. It was a good post. Someone is being condescending toward you because it's the best he/she's got. You, on the other hand, have a good education and the intelligence to be able to use it well. And you also have the moral high ground. There's nothing that can take the place of that.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: GUEST,G
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 08:31 PM

gnu, I never implied that your words were false. Not at all. I simply said that once you say something, you should have the courage to stick with it.
And, Carol C, there is no moral high ground involved when one has to offer apologies with regard to what he said.

Amd, Peace, I do not to pretend to speak for the US. I speak only for myself. One good point for you to remember, however, and that is the fact that a majority of the US citizens elected GWB to a second term.

Have a good weekend - I am off to the real world.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Peace
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 08:35 PM

Have fun in it. BTW, a majority of the US electorate put Bush in for a first term. He's only been elected once. I know that's a sore point . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: pdq
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 08:37 PM

Deal it is, (Warren) Peace, but you have to call Ian Tyson "governor" now that Alberta is a state.

To sweeten the deal (marshall) Bob Dylan has agreed to write a new national anthem for (what's left of) Canada. It will be much easier to sing at the Toronto baseball games.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: GUEST,G
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 08:38 PM

It is only a sore point to the Democrats and those of you who are hateful Canadians. "Don't worry, be happy"!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Peace
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 08:39 PM

Welcome to the real world, G. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Peace
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 08:40 PM

It's like this G. I don't like you. You don't like me. I can live with that. You learn to live with it, too. Have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: GUEST,G
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 08:43 PM

Peace, I don't dislike you, I don't know who or what you are. I will have a nice day, thank you, and the same for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 09:07 PM

Canada may in fact have more influence to defeat the neocon takeover of the US than Americans casting their votes on corrupt Diebold machines that have been proven to change actual vote counts in seconds.

What alternative do neocons have if Canada does impose a self sacrificing boycott of energy sales to the US?
Invasion?

The US would need a big selling campaign to invade Canada that would of course include WMD's, a leaky border and a few good recruiting songs...
Its a long way to Calgary eh,
its a long way to go.
Its a long way up to Calgary eh,
to fight in ice and snow.
Eh its a long way...

The neocons could borrow a nazi strategy and claim that GWB was assisinated* by a Canadian leftist. Cheney would "take over" (as if he hasn't already) and we could begin rounding up Canadians - for questioning at camp Delta.

I say more power to you Canada. You've got the means and the courage and common sense that red Americans seem to lack.


*(I can't say assasinated without a visit from the SS anymore)
I've had 3 SS visits already. I wonder if anyone else hear can top that.)





PS but seriously dianivan, you made a brilliant post here.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 12:22 AM

And, Carol C, there is no moral high ground involved when one has to offer apologies with regard to what he said.

He didn't have to offer apologies. He offered them because he is a gentleman... not because he was wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 12:31 AM

Ian Tyson for governor?

Terry Jacks wasn't available?

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Peace
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 10:31 AM

I was tryin' to hold out for Stompin' Tom, but . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Peace
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 11:02 AM

Jack, as a by the way, we are going to call the new leader of Alberta the Social Convenor. W'all real tarred of this Gov'ner crap 'cause mos'ly we jus' don't like bein' told what to do by no one.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 11:17 AM

Wow, so much anger. As of 2002, Canada was the US largest trading partner with over $370 Billion in trade and a merchandise deficit of $50 billion. This trading has benefited BOTH countries. The lumber issue is one of many since the implementation of NAFTA. It will be worked through just like the others.

It's pretty stupid that we still have tarriffs and subsidies period. It is remarkably stupid in my opinion. What we should do is remove all trade barriers. The benefits of comparative advantage work even if the other guy wants to hurt his own people with government intervention.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: sian, west wales
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 11:26 AM

There was a point a few decades ago when Canadians, if lumped together and considered an 'ethnic group', apparently made up the 3rd largest ethnic group in California. And then there's Florida and Arizona snowbirds so depending on the time of year you'd have to set up one helluvan internment camp ...

Wonder where Britain would/will sit if the US did try to get rough with Canada? Hmmmm ....

siân

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: Peter T.
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 11:50 AM

Give it a rest. No one cares about Canada's message, gripes, or anything. Canada is like the kid during recess that no one hated but no one would play with because of being such a goody two-shoes and a bore.


yours,

Peter T. (proud Canadian)

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 12:23 PM

I care :) You may be on to something. Anyone see the movie Canadian Bacon?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109370/

quotes

"Canadians are always dreaming up a lotta ways to ruin our lives. The metric system, for the love of God! Celsius! Neil Young! "

I love the scene with Dan Akroyd!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada's message
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 01:54 PM

One good point for you to remember, however, and that is the fact that a majority of the US citizens elected GWB to a second term.

Actually, only about 25 percent of voting age USAns voted for Bush. That is not a "majority of US citizens".