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BS: Politics only posters on Cat
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Pied Piper Date: 10 Oct 05 - 07:10 AM Good god it's even rattled MG cage. An rud a théann i bhfad, téann sé i bhfuaire. PP |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: GUEST Date: 10 Oct 05 - 07:05 AM And likewise epona people seem to confuse 'anti-'irishism' with anti IRA-ism.' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney Date: 10 Oct 05 - 07:01 AM Selective pm's Keith ! From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Sep 05 - 12:32 PM Epona, yes I am following the thread. I was not taken by surprise, but to discuss the roots of Irish terrorism would really require a new thread, and it has come up before a couple of times! We can't really hijack the thread to exchange our stories either. How about a PM? Keith. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Divis Sweeney Date: 10 Oct 05 - 06:53 AM May I make another sidenote? And excuse me for interrupting the drama:) It seems that just as Catholicism and Republicanism gets mixed up, so too does Republicanism and the IRA. I understand the history behind this, but I'm not dealing with the history of either of these groups at the moment, only the here and now. I certainly know that there are some Republicans that support the IRA, but I also know that there are many Irish Republicans who do not. So, if the goal is to attack the Provos, then please adjust your aim. If it is Irish Republicanism you dislike, then please try not to confuse the debate. And yes, Keith, I do believe that Irish Republicanism has been in the forefront for pushing for peace in the North of Ireland and for unity across the island. I suppose I didn't realize how much of an inflammatory statement that was for you Keith. I also did not know until recently that you were a retired British soldier, so that does help me to understand a little why you have the opinions you do about the North. But I'm hoping that you and the rest of the catters that read this thread will take away one thing if nothing else from this post and that is the IRA and Irish Republicans are two separate entities. Absolutely there is some overlap now and again, but we are separate and distinct groups. All I ask is that people remember that when posting. And, Keith, I am sorry if you feel that I am here to "pontificate not engage." While we're being honest, I feel the same about you, but the difference is this: I would never infer you shouldn't be allowed to post because of your political beliefs. I welcome your presence and the presence of all the mudcatters on whichever threads they find interest in. I agree with Dave...this is a great place, a wonderful discussion forum and for the most part, I feel safe posting and enjoy the interaction, despite attempts to make me feel otherwise. :) E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 10 Oct 05 - 06:06 AM Ard Mhacha I do quite a few soldiering songs, not just British army, but my main interest is seafaring songs. Not exclusive though, my interest is broad. I know and respect your scholarship, especially in Irish music. Why PM and not the forum? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: MBSLynne Date: 10 Oct 05 - 05:52 AM No one forces anyone to read the political threads. I normally avoid them totally. Love Lynne |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney Date: 10 Oct 05 - 05:39 AM The movement as you once knew it has gone. I am not here to spread as you call it MUCK. I am not starting threads here on a weekly basis to promote the IRA. I come in to answer the abuse from you and the like that attack those living in Ireand and who support the Republican cause. No need to loose the cool, friend. So when I arrive you want to leave ? why because you prefer to bad mouth Republicans without getting a reaction ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: The Shambles Date: 10 Oct 05 - 05:30 AM Imagine a group of people turning up at an open mike session, ignoring all the music, but setting up a soap box to push their politics at you in the interval. What is the difference? Whatever personal value judgements that may be expressed by some of our volunteer fellow posters and whatever impression of inferiority may be given by this - the site's owner has not made the value judgment that non-music subjects are in any way second rate. The fact that this section is underneath the music section just indicates that the non-music was born out of the non-music section. And the need for some posters to constantly complain that they did not like to see non-music titles mixed-up with the music ones. And one last thing, my official comment on the BS issue: I like it. Art=Music=Life=BS Max The fact is that there is now there a special part of the forum set-aside for non-music related subjects. And you like to engage in debate there - why should any posters be surprised (or post to be judgemental) if their fellow posters in this section appear to have no interest in music? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Paco Rabanne Date: 10 Oct 05 - 05:27 AM Divis, You are one of the main pro IRA muck spreaders! When you and your ilk join ANY thread, I stop posting to it. Enjoy the rest of this thread, I'm gone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney Date: 10 Oct 05 - 05:21 AM Well Ted, We all know where you stand on the subject of peace ! Do you want it all your own way too ? Leave the Provisionals alone and I will go away, attack them and I will come back at you, simple as that. The Mudcat site seems to have more hits on the non music threads, maybe people just want to come here and express their viewpoint, in your case as long as it's anti Irish or Republican. Back off and I will.Otherwise debate and keep it civil. Name Thread Name Subject Posted flamenco ted BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW (313* d) RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW 20 May 05 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If I had a gun and was also a loyalist, I would hang onto it like grim death becacuse the IRA/Sinn Fein have a long long history of lying through their teeth! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Dave Hanson Date: 10 Oct 05 - 05:18 AM It's not even the full half hour Dave, it last for feckin weeks. eric |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Oct 05 - 05:14 AM Is that the 10 minute argument, Eric? :D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: ard mhacha Date: 10 Oct 05 - 05:10 AM I have had a look through critic Keith`s postings, it seems his main interest is in songs about the British army, Keith how can you lambast anyone who come on this Site, if you want to know anything concerning music give me a PM. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Dave Hanson Date: 10 Oct 05 - 04:51 AM When I discovered the Mudcat Cafe it was always described as ' an online magazine, dedicated to folk music and blues ' why do people with no interest in blues and folk music come to be here initialy, is it a case of " is this the right room for an argument ? " eric |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Oct 05 - 04:29 AM I know this thread is primarily directed at our republican posters but I think it does pose an interesting question. Why do people come here if they have no interest in Folk and Blues music and find the topics in the BS section to be full of anti(insert your own peeve) postings? I don't believe for one minute that the 'cat is generaly anti-Irish btw. Any more than I believe the rest of the world is. I think the cat is a microcosm of an international society and reflects, to a certain extent, the feelings in the world at large. Sure there are some anti-Irish comments. There are some anti-English ones. Some anti-American and even some anti-Mudcat! But people still keep coming back. Why is that? I can only suppose it is because the Mudcat is a tollerent and generaly well behaved society where most people feel comfortable and unthreatened by their antagonists. I would suggest that if anyone realy wants to do anything to stop anti-Irish (or English, or American) - ness they go into the bars and pubs where there are some REAL dealers in hate and predjudice and try to talk them round instead. I welcome anyone to stay here and talk whatever bollocks they want to. I do it often enough. But to make a difference in the real world you need to stop preaching to the alredy tollerant. Cheers Dave the Gnome |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 10 Oct 05 - 04:28 AM I have no problem with people posting things I disagree with. I enjoy the debate. Imagine a group of people turning up at an open mike session, ignoring all the music, but setting up a soap box to push their politics at you in the interval. What is the difference? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: The Shambles Date: 10 Oct 05 - 04:14 AM Is that not an abuse of Mudcat to cynically use our forum like that? Perhaps others will judge what you choose to post to be an abuse of our forum? It is called freedom of expression and we wiil have to accept that sometimes this will be uncomfortable. Why would you wish to deny others what you consider to be the right to express yourself. If you judge such things are an abuse on our forum - you have two choices. To ignore them. Or to respond in kind. One way will be effective - the other will just bring more attention and lead to more needless imposed judgement, deletions and closed threads on our forum. To the loss of yet more precious freedoms for us to be able to express our views and see our words remain as posted. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Paco Rabanne Date: 10 Oct 05 - 04:13 AM Good thread subject Keith A. I made this very point here about six months ago, there are DEFINITELY a few pro IRA types here, who are here for one purpose only, and that is to goad us true blue, upright English chaps! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney Date: 10 Oct 05 - 03:49 AM In your post above Keith you say you did not accuse, just spread the word of two corrupt Police Forces, Garda found guilty of planting weapons near border last year. PSNI/RUC had 14 serving and ex serving members serve life for murders of Catholics. It this the words to a new folk song? Yes I do check sites for anti Irish threads Keith.And no it's not a duty. Subject: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 07 Jan 05 - 01:36 PM We recently discussed the DUP insisting on photos of IRA decommissioning. (thread deleted?) It now seems that while Sinn Fein were negotiating, a huge bank robbery was in advanced planning by IRA. The police are certain of this, and hostages were taken to Republican areas. Sinn Fein deny IRA involvement, but they did about IRA involvement in Columbia, etc. Do any NI members doubt IRA involvement? Keith. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 10 Oct 05 - 03:42 AM With Josh and perhaps Sweeney, we have employees of political groups trawling the net for a platform to push their beliefs. Is that not an abuse of Mudcat to cynically use our forum like that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: The Shambles Date: 10 Oct 05 - 02:23 AM And one last thing, my official comment on the BS issue: I like it. Art=Music=Life=BS Max The point is for us to post - to respond or to ignore. Not perhaps for us to judge the posts of others or speculate on the reasons that others may choose to post. Judge not and ye shall not be judged. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 10 Oct 05 - 02:17 AM Epona, you say you come with an open mind to learn Then you write "the movement that has been in the forefront for pushing for peace in the North and unity across the island." You state your opinion as if it were a fact, but many here disagree and have argued against it in threads that you have been on. I think you come to pontificate not engage. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 10 Oct 05 - 02:06 AM Peace, I am sure many, perhaps most members post to neither section. Do you not find it strange that some do not even look at the music section, and wonder why they come? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Divis Sweeney Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:34 PM Keith, As I said earlier, I can't and won't speak for Divis, Tir Eoghain, Toicfaidh, Tir C. or the others on the cat that support Irish Republicanism. All I can do is try to explain my choices and hope that it helps you and others to see what I feel and maybe what the others feel as well. I have been, for as long as I can remember, a strong supporter of Irish Republicanism. I reject segregation and categorizing especially along religious lines. You'll notice when I post I often bring up the fact that not all Republicans are Catholic and not all Loyalists or Unionists are Protestant. It is in small ways such as this that I try to contribute to the threads I read because it's important for me to try to help others shed some of the biased beliefs they have. Just as important, though, is for me to learn more about those around me and to try to shed some of the biases I too have. I really think that's what the BS threads are for. I realize not everyone uses them in that manner, but I try to keep an open mind about the threads and learn from those that are knowledgable. I also believe that the threads provide us a great opportunity for debate and I enjoy reading along and engaging in the debates because it's a great way to teach and to learn as well. I won't lie that it feels like the people of "Irish Republican persuasion" are getting a bad rap for posting about their experiences and their beliefs. But, I am proud to be a supporter of the movement that has been in the forefront for pushing for peace in the North and unity across the island. I may not be quite as vocal in my opinions as my fellow Republicans, but I support their right to say (or type!) what is in their hearts and minds, just as I support your right as well. If we all agreed, it would be a very boring cat...:) Hope your evening went well and that your Monday is bright and sunny. E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Divis Sweeney Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:17 PM Thank-you, Peace. E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Oct 05 - 07:55 PM For balance, i once posted this Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP From: GUEST,Keith A o Hertford on tour - PM Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:01 AM Josh, we all here share an interest in our music and are a forum of friends. If you are not into our music, why have you started this discussion? if you are here to recruit for BNP then you are really not welcome. Non UK folks, BNP is an extreemist movement, but immigration is a main stream political issue Sweeney, I am intrigued by your comment "I do find the time to search many sites,I have to. " Why do you have to? Is it part of your duties as a volunteer? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Oct 05 - 07:42 PM Sweeney, I did not read that as a personal attack. Thanks for the concern. I did start the robbery thread, but I did not accuse, I asked the question. (The government, security chief and police force of The Irish Republic did accuse).It made for a long, interesting and balanced debate. Again on this thread, I said what my initial reaction was, asked if others felt it was reasonable, and invited discussion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney Date: 09 Oct 05 - 07:37 PM Keith I do find the time to search many sites,I have to. Read some of your Anti Republican postings and you may see my need why. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney Date: 09 Oct 05 - 07:34 PM Yes I do Keith, and yet to find anti Irish threads on any of them. Maybe I should list them and you could go spread the word there ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Oct 05 - 07:32 PM Sorry Epona if I misunderstood your point. Your posts are always gentle and tolerant anyway. That still leaves Divis Sweeney ,Tiocfaid,Tir Eoghan and Tir C..? Divis Sweeney also says So sorry no interest at all in Blues, folk, jazz, country, gospel of diddle dee music. So am I barred ? No Sweeney, you are not and can not be barred. Do you join in other forums? Stamp collecting? Bell ringing? Real Ale. How do you find the time? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney Date: 09 Oct 05 - 07:26 PM This is not a complaint, It is a complaint otherwise you would not have started the thread. Listen Keith you may hold a great interest in folk music, thats fine, but when you and a few others I could mention log on to see the music threads and there is nothing there that tickles you, then you get bored and start a thread about the Provisional Irish Republican Army. I have went through the threads and posts that you have either started or fed over the year. What is it with you ? You can't have it all your own way Keith. If you visit this site to get up to speed on whats happening with the music scene, great more power to you. But if you think your going to slip on down the sheet and have a wack at the Paddies out of boredom and get a few nods from your croonies, then think long and hard about not getting a reply to it. Yes I am a Republican, and damed proud of it. If you and others stop the attacks I won't be here. Do you see me addressing other issues? No you don't and what is the main topic of your postings Keith ? Irish issues that's what. As far as I can see there is three subjects you go on about, first the murder of a hood called McCartney. Right here is your answer to that. IT WAS MURDER AND IT WAS WRONG.I do not respect or defend those who did it. They are not Republicans in my eyes. As to those Republicans that were present at the time of the murder. No Republican will go to the police here in Belfast. For gods sake Keith you talk to them once and they are offering a handlers number and a phone number to gain information about everything that's going on. I do not trust them myself. Secondly you go on about Children being murdered by the IRA, Keith THIS WAS WRONG TOO. I hate to see the loss of a childs life from where ever it comes. Active service units placed bombs in England to bring their cause to the British Government. Those who are responsiable for issue of a warning, screwed up from time to time. They have said sorry, and I am saying sorry to you and everyone for that. The word is not enough I know, No unit ever went out to kill children on that I swear. Thirdly The Northern Bank Robbery, your top ten subject. No one has been charged for this, why are you saying it was the Provo's tell me. Why because a police force that hates the nationalist community said so ? Keith I read you as a wise man. Some well worded posts, a lot better grammer than mine may I add ! We are no threat on the ground to you or anyone else, the guns are gone, the bombing has stopped volunteers are living a life as normal as its allowed to get. Give us a break. We are no threat. The Irish people are no threat to you. Keith this may seem like a personal attack on you, sorry it if comes across as this it's not, but Ineed to address someone and your thread allowed it. We are allowed a voice, I visit this site to defend, not to start. If any of my previous posts were fired up, it was down to a reaction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Peace Date: 09 Oct 05 - 07:15 PM "But am I to understand that in order to be part of the 'Cat I must post to the music threads?" No, that is not so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Divis Sweeney Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:55 PM Whoa there, Keith. I neve said I rejected folk music, just said I never have been on the music threads. I often see threads in the music section and think about contributing, but I chose to stick with the BS section. I've got limited time most days and have to pick and chose to what I contribute and these are the threads I enjoy and learn from. I can't and won't speak for Divis. Let him voice his own opinion as I've noticed he's more than capable of doing. But am I to understand that in order to be part of the 'Cat I must post to the music threads? E
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:48 PM other rejection of folk/blues |
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Subject: BS: Politics only posters on Cat From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:42 PM This is not a complaint, but a query. In the last couple of months a group of posters has appeared who never post on music, only politics. They are all of Irish Republican persuasion. In this thread two of them have said that they have no interest in folk or blues music. They only use us to push their opinions on Irish politics. I felt as if i was sitting at a table with friends and a stranger had intruded into the conversation. But should I? Is our forum just for folkies? Also, why would anyone want join us just for that? Is anyone else just here for the politics? Keith. |
