Acoustic guitar processors

Subject: Acoustic guitar processors
From: nosluap57
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 09:49 PM

I havejust started thinking it might be cool to have a processor for my acoustics. HAs anybody any recommendations on what I should look for, as well as what I should avoid?

Thanks

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 02:49 PM

Let me count the ways! What exactly are you after?

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: mooman
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 03:05 PM

I use a Korg Pandora Acoustic Toneworks which is small enough to mount on my guitar/instrument straps. It does a big range of useful things and is programmable with 50 user combinations of many types of effects. The sound quality is good and noise is low.

On the strength of this little device I've sold several Boss pedals is used to use and which were a nuisance to to carry around. The Acoustic Toneworks fits in my guitar case.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: dwditty
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 03:25 PM

A friend of mine loves his Fishman Aura. I have heard that you can send them your guitar and they will greate a model of it. Somehow, it seems like a long way around to get back to where you are starting from. Not much of a gearhead.

dw

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 03:28 PM

I have a boss ME 10 that I can plug just about anything into! Man is it ever a LOT of peddle

:-)

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Midchuck
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 03:59 PM

Philosophical question: Is and acoustic guitar, played through one of these things, still an acoustic guitar?

Peter.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 04:09 PM

Yes

Cause -I- said so...

Move on....

:-P
Heh

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: mooman
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 04:55 PM

If you want to incorporate a bit of early Pink Floyd into your set on an octave mandolin, then yes definitely. But not everyone wants to do this of course. And I more often than not play purely acoustically and use the bypass.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Mooh
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 05:19 PM

Hands down the best acoustic guitar processor is a large diaphram condenser microphone.

Oh yeah, I also use a wah (great tone control), Boss EQ, Zoom GFX-1 multi-effects unit, Boss chorus, Marshall Gov'nor, and that other processor known as an amplifier, usually a Yorkville bass amp.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 07:20 PM

Really does depend which and what you are processing.

if your guitar has just a piezo mike you will benefit from a mike simulator of some type. the yamaha AG Stomp is good but only has two effects - delay and chorus.

If you want some other effects phase and flange etc there is a Yamaha acoustic stomp.

the eq on both these is pretty weedy - a graphic eq is always a help in detecting those nasty freqencies which pop up, and enhancing the actual frequency that you want.

some very very good acoustic guitarists - the late Eric Roche for one - seem to devoted a lot of ingenuity and the into the actual blend of the different components that make up your amplified acoustic
sound - check out the Fishman catalogue and Raven do a very popular source blend.

However I don't claim to be any kind of an expert. Don't buy anything on the recommendation of an idiot like me. The best thing is to go and watch some guys who have really got their guitar sound sorted out. I saw Alan Taylor a couple of weeks ago and was most impressed with the sound he has achieved. Go and ask. You will find most of these people eager to share their knowledge. Sometimes they give seminars at folk festivals. take a note book and sketch their ideas down.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Grab
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 09:28 AM

My Korg AX1500G is really an electric FX pedal, but the EQ, amp modelling, chorus and reverb are fine for acoustic. And it's excellent for electric stuff. It doesn't have the specialist acoustic stuff like feedback-busting though.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: mooman
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 09:35 AM

Blicky here concerning the Korg Acoustic Toneworks I mentioned earlier.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Willie-O
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 09:57 AM

A subject I have been pursuing on the performance floor of late.

Currently I am finding it useful if somewhat sacreligious to use the following pedals with my Martin O-18 (now equipped with a stereo-output B-Band pickup):

A Danelectro PBJ delay pedal ($75 Cdn) and a really cheap old stomp-on compressor that I've had around forever.

It helps that I have a 2-channel Peavey E-Coustic 112 amp--I am appreciating its versatility more and more. I use both channels for the guitar, one takes the internal mike and one the under-saddle pickup. And I plug the pedals in through the send-and-return jacks on the back of the amp, not in-between the guitar and amp.

Next on the list: a power supply pedal (pesky 9-volt batteries are gettin on my nerves) and for that professional touch, a tuner pedal. I think it's a real good idea not to subject the whole audience (all three of them or whatever) to all that exciting tuning.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Midchuck
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:41 AM

I think it's a real good idea not to subject the whole audience (all three of them or whatever) to all that exciting tuning.

Yes. Would that you could get ten thousand or so Sensitive Young Singer-Songwriters to agree with you.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Mooh
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:43 AM

It is fun to horse around with the gadgets, but there's nothing like the purity of a good acoustic guitar sans effects most of the time. Trouble is, it's hard to amplify that sound. The signal that leaves the guitar is real important so I always have a preamp in line first, figuring that the more signal the chain of effects receives, the better the end result will be, with less noise.

I've looked at the new, and very cheap, Behringer preamps. Anyone tried them yet?

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 04:24 PM

Interesting idea, Mooman--I have a box full of the Boss Pedals, mostly use just compressor and a touch of delay, and the pedals are alway in the way--

A bit of processing is necessary, because the pick-up and amp change the sound of an acoustic instrument significantly, and often not to the good. The thing I hate is that, after you've figured out what you want to use, you have to practice with your whole set up, because it makes rehearsal more complicated--if you don't, though, your sound can really get messed up--

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 05:08 PM

"...not to subject the whole audience to all that exciting tuning"

To quote the T-shirt from Elderly

Tune it or DIE!

:-)

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 06:31 PM

All I use anymore is a tiny Danelectro chorus pedal called a Milkshake. Works great.

Mooh -- Behringer stuff is cheap for a reason. Though the company is German, the products are mass-produced in China. Anecdotal evidence (from pro sound people) suggests that up to 10% of the stuff is busted right out of the box.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: GUEST,Behringer ding dang dong.. yeah !
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 09:51 PM

if that claim has any element of real truth
that still gives at least 90% very good quality, excellent value for money
hi tech music gear..

and if you do get a dud.. you still got your shop guarantee for a quick replacement.

most audio products are mass produced in China these days..

check the components inside US 'made' pro gear..

I bet it only requires a minimum of assembly and finishing at home in the States
for a product to be legally classed as 'made in US'


I got several Behringer products which are fine value, effective functional products,
never had any problems with any of 'em..


and I intend buying more as soon as the new autumn guitar accessories products
hit ebay shops..

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 11:14 PM

the behringer mixing desks are good(excellent vaue) and I have a little bass combo, which has been terrific. guess I'm one of the lucky 90%

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Mooh
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 11:40 PM

Re: Behringer. I've got a MX 602A Eurorack mixer which I've used as a sub mixer for acoustic amplification, and a source of phantom power when needed. Have also borrowed a pal's acoustic amp which while a bit noisy, was pretty good for wedding gigs. I was hoping somebody had some direct experience with their new stompbox style guitar preamps, figuring a new dedicated one in my rig would be nice. Maybe Long & McQuade's will have them.

Thanks.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 11:58 PM

i fancy the new behringer tuner and A/B switcher footpedals out soon..

definitely well priced to take a risk..

i got an inexpensive behringer V-AMP 2 guitar processor for home use
which i think sounds better than my line 6 POD v.1

bought my nephew the footpedal version and it seemed very sturdy
and well made..

he thinks its great and uses it at school with his cheap electro acoustic..


this might be worth checking out

Boss AD-8 Acoustic Guitar Processor

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/151429/


I got a less expensive earlier version Boss AD-3 a few years ago

http://www.hwaudio.co.uk/shop/product.asp?PLU=93686

to try to improve the live stagesound of a crafter bowl back mandolin
with horrible sounding piezo pickup..

the anti feedback function was there if i needed it

[which i never found i did]

i dont like chorus..

and not so bothered with reverb either..

the COSM modelling could only add a minimum of 'full body' / extra bassy boom to the overall sound of that wretched thin piercing piezo pickup..

in the end i decided no amount of technology would improve the sound of that mando..


so i replaced it with one with an old fashioned magnetic pickup
and an onstage miked up 10 watt practice amp..

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Hamish
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 02:31 AM

I'd recommend:

- multi effects, not a whole array of single-use, dedicated pedals.
- make sure it's got a tuner with a mute switch
- make sure it's programmable, so that you can make the individual elements more or less subtle
- make sure it has some sort of feedback supression.
- oh, and it might be a good idea to have it optionally mains/battery powered.

Good luck!

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 02:53 AM

one of these might be quite cheap now if you can find one online

zoom 504 II Acoustic Guitar Fx Pedal


http://www.musiciansbuy.com/prod.asp?ic=504


or this updated more 'pro' version

Zoom A2 Acoustic Guitar Effects Processor

http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/options.php?id=68354

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Grab
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 07:35 AM

Completely off-topic, but Punkfolkrocker, beware of the Behringer V-Tone guitar amps - they're sadly flawed. All I wanted an amp for was to provide a very loud version of what my Korg pedal spits out, and the slave inputs on the GMX212 I bought do it just fine, so I've got lots of amplification for little money. But its guitar input circuits are utter rubbish - the "clean" option is thin and weedy, and the various overdrive options just pile on massive unmusical distortion.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 12:40 PM

hi Grab..

yeah thanks ..


i've been curious about behringer amps, because the v-amp rack/table top/pedal processor products are seriously good quality/value gear..

but as much as i'd reccomend behringer hi tech products..
i'm unsure about their venture into more traditional territory like guitar amps..

its a shame then if behringer have let themselves down with the Amp range..


personally i played safe and stuck with modern vox & marshall transistor 10 watt amps..

and an older laney valve 15 watt..

i prefere the sound of smaller 6.5" speakers for mandos, and guitars..

so i'm thinking of replacing the 10" in the laney as soon as i get round to it..

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: nosluap57
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 10:54 PM

Thanks to all! I am overwhelmed by the response. I'll look more closely though everybody's reply, perhaps tommorw morning, after the effects of celebrating my birthday wear off!

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:04 AM

Many happy returns!

If you find THE answer to this problem - be sure to let us all know. Basically even the greatest players in the world are stumbling around like a cow in a bog over this one. that's why there's an industry supplying the fantasies of bad tempered dyspeptic old bastards like myself - fantasies of THE acoustic guitar sound.

Do tell us if you stumble across the holy grail on your travels.

all the best

big al

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: GUEST,Mr. Fancy Pants
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:09 AM

My new Esteban American Legacy has a kewl on board equalizer and a pretty kick ass amplifier. I highly recomment an Esteban.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: GUEST,Fullerton
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:53 AM

A Studio in Liverpool bought a Behringer Valve Amp which featured a valve visible in the centre of the control panel. It glowed expensively!!

Unfortunately it was not actually connected to the audio circuitry at all! It simply drew power and lit up!

I agree with Mooh & others - the best acoustic processor is a good microphone.

Internal Pickups, Internal Pre amps & graphic EQs - don't even come near to the clarity of a good mike.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 02:13 AM

Jaysus and there was the answer right under our nose!

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: C-flat
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 04:48 AM

I've spent a considerable amount of money on gadgets over the years and, while it's been fun and educational, I suspect the money could have better spent.
Of all the equipment I've used there are only two reccomendations I could offer;
The first would be an A.E.R. amp which in my opinion is the best accoustic guitar amp range on the market.
Secondly a £5 "feedback-buster" which has got to be the best value-for-money piece of kit ever.
Provided you've got a decent sounding guitar and a measure of ability you don't really need anything else, although I agree that a decent muted floor-tuner makes sense.

This from a man who has terminal gadgetisis and is currently looking for a gadget that will house all my gadgets!
Maybe the bin?

I wouldn't want to deny anyone the right to try/buy everything in their quest for that perfect sound, it's a journey most guitarists make, but I believe you'll end up where you started, but poorer.

Good luck

C-flat.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: Grab
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 12:54 PM

Fullerton, whilst it might score 10/10 for sound, an instrument mic scores maybe 3/10 (if generous) for practicality. A good pickup might only make 8/10 for sound, but it's 10/10 for practicality. And EQ is just as applicable on a mic as a pickup...

Graham.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:34 PM

A Studio in Liverpool bought a Behringer Valve Amp which featured a valve visible in the centre of the control panel. It glowed expensively!!

Unfortunately it was not actually connected to the audio circuitry at all! It simply drew power and lit up!

another modern urban myth !!??!!

.. re: recent 'retro' hi tech audio gear that employs a valve in circuit..


new technologies allow valves to be run cooler for power efficiency
and longer more predictable valve life..
consequently, consumers might not see so much traditional hot valve 'glow'..

so companies such as behringer and korg..
and others with more pro reputations as well..

wire in orange/yellow LEDs behind the valve as a low cost cosmetic device
to give impression of hot burning valve that conservative musicians market
'demands' to see..

there are websites devoted to accusations/rebuttals & explainations of the 'valve con' rumours..

also consider this..

market inefficient 'pro' audio companies
are not so innocent of encouraging 'dirty tricks' anti behringer propaganda
in order to protect their overpriced products
from more affordable mass produced good quality competition

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:39 PM

eg..

http://record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2840

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitar processors
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 02:03 PM

oh and..

must'nt forget to mention this fine old-fashioned-tech
british analogue acoustic preamp..

AP10-2 Electro-Acoustic Preamp

"The AP10 concept was initially launched by Award-Session in 1995 and was called the GG10 in Europe, after Gordon Giltrap who adopted the unit as his! He still uses them to this day. However, we have re-named it the AP10, as this was it's better known name in USA when made for MORLEY, the wah & volume pedal company.
This is a great tool for live performance,
whose range of useful features are unmatched by any other electro-acoustic pre-amp available. A great deal of thought went into designing the AP10 and has been hailed as one of the best ever electro-acoustic preamps."




http://www.award-session.com/ap10.html