BS: How far should a insult go ?

Subject: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: GUEST,Fiolaris
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 04:45 AM

I have been a vistor to this site off and on for three years and I have to say it's great to read debate and viewpoints. Sadly today as I read one post I thought, this person can't say such things about another. What are your views ? Please read the remark yourself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 12:19 AM

So come on GUEST 21 Oct 05 - 01:37 PM


I certainly hope you understand this message you nameless, annonymous, child molesting TWAT.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 05:03 AM

Don't take everything literally or seriously on the Mudcat, most of it is just fun and [ nostly ] nobody takes offence.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 05:19 AM

Q:   WHAT DO YOU WANT?
M:   Well, I was told outside that...
Q:   Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!
M:   What?
Q:   Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!!
M:   Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!
Q:   OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.
M:   Oh, I see, well, that explains it.
Q:   Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor.
M:   Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry.
Q:   Not at all.
M:   Thank You.
(Under his breath) Stupid git!!

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 05:31 AM

I wouldn't worry about it. It's only Teribus. That he knows an anonymous poster is a child molesting twat just about sums his powers of reasoning up.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 05:32 AM

It's AN insult, you illiterate turd!

























Far enough? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 06:15 AM

It is not noe the nature of the insult but who is insulted and who is doing the insulting. Some are thought to be safe targets and some think themselves safe to insult........

You can call people names
Post only flames
Abusing is merely amusing
They say around here
Some can post without fear
But don't make your titles confusing.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 06:50 AM

Time perhaps for the official Mudcat line on this from the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Staff ? The fair example now set by him, some of his anonymous volunteer posters (and various supporters) who feel themselves qualified to sit in judgement and impose this upon their fellow posters – must be a safe one to follow on our forum?
You may think this? You judge from the following examples - if this is the very best example to set?

Yes, I think you may well be first on the list, my friend. It's time for you either to shut up, or to use a name and take responsibility for what you have to say. If you continue to refuse to use a name, you will be come a non-person around here, and every single message you post will be deleted.
Free speech is fine, but you're just a pain in the ass.
-Joe Offer-

Nobody's out to offend your right to free speech - but if you insist on making an asshole of yourself, you're likely to be treated like an asshole.
-Joe Offer-

OK, so I suppose it's time to close this one, too. I don't know what the solution is, but I do know it doesn't have anything to do with everybody calling each other asshole.
That kind of stuff makes it really difficult to carry on an adult discussion.
-Joe Offer-

Aw, c'mon, Mark! Did I say anything insulting in that message? No - I just said I was not on a vendetta and had no reason to be on a vendetta - but that our friend floods the place with too much verbiage. I even said I agreed with and admired our friend.
I see no reson why my comments shouldn't have humor or a human touch at times. I am no longer a government official, and I am no longer required to be excruciatingly circumspect.
I AM fair, but I AM human. And I'm here to enjoy myself, not to be put on trial.
-Joe Offer-

Perhaps it should be remembered that none of us post here in order to be judged, put on trial and be insulted by our fellow posters - even though it sometimes appears that subjecting others to this is what some of these known and anonymous volunteer fellow posters now find to be most enjoyable aspect of our forum?

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 07:15 AM

Please tell us GUEST,Fiolaris. You were asked to substantiate an accusation you made with regard to myself - Having made that accusation you have steadfastly refused to substatiate it. So the inference must be that it is perfectly alright for you to throw insults and accusations about, but it is somehow crossing the line to have them returned.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: kendall
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 08:37 AM

Here we go again...

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 09:36 AM

There was peace when this guy went away, now he's back. So twisted and as insulting. I can understand why those Irish posters are insulted after the nasty remark he made.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 09:44 AM

Damn, I was hoping for an actual discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 09:52 AM

If you feel that it's gone too far, there's this. Or the French, or the American, or the....

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 11:13 AM

I guess an insult should go as far as the insultor thinks he can deal with the reply and consequences....and he should not be surprised at what they might be.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Cluin
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 11:23 AM

Depends on the intent behind your insult. If you really want to hurt someone, I guess there's no limit.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 11:52 AM

Depends on the circumstances. Some insults are between friends, and ain't to be taken seriously. That's when ya say it with a twinkle in yer eye. Other insults are meant to provoke an enemy, like addin' spice to the mix when yer basic intention is to beat the bozo to a bloody pulp or fill him full of 50 cal slugs. In that case there is really no limit on how far an insult can go. Then there are casual insults, like to the bus driver or somethin'. I would advise with the casual insults to keep 'em within reasonable bounds. If ya don't it can lead to trouble that ya don't need in yer life.

Then there's dames. It ain't normally proper to insult dames...unless they really deserve it. Like when THEY have insulted you first! Then it's fair game.

You gotta be careful insultin' dames, though, because they really hold grudges, lemme tell ya. They will scheme and plot for years to make yer life miserable just to get even. They will send their brothers and cousins to beat yer head in with tire irons. This can be way more troube than it is worth.

If yer talkin' the Internet, well, then it depends on the context and it depends on just how much you are willin' to risk alientatin' various people and ruinin' yer own reputation in the process. There are limits. You gotta judge each case on its own merits.

NEVER insult a gorilla inside an elevator, that's my advice. Wait till you are OUT of the elevator, and the door is just closin' on him. THEN insult the filthy, tick-ridden, simple-minded, slack-jawed, pointy-headed bastard!!! (grin) And make sure he's on his way to the 30th floor when ya do it too...

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 12:28 PM

It's why I don't post anymore3 as myself. I got tired of insults from the clones! They're the worst.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Epona
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 12:55 PM

Insults ruin the debates and make them personal versus being simply experience or knowledge-based. I was wincing when I was reading some of the posts today on one of the other threads because it was getting pretty full of personal attacks.

E

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 01:07 PM

I dunno.

They're very good at winding up this terribus character(what does terribus mean - it sounds Latin, the ablative of something?)

its a bit like watching a gang of kids set about a daft old man

oh shit I've insulted somebody now - but I don't think its worth worrying about.

we all insult each other on mudcat occasionally - most times without even knowing it ...

I was sorry when Martin Gibson left us. he dished out a lot of insults, but basically he was an okay guy. and I felt there was a core of deep hurt within him causing him to say the stuff he did. Mudcat was somewhere he could feel important.

I suppose it comes down to whether you sense a real intention to hurt.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 01:35 PM

Yaaaaawwwwnnnn

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 01:50 PM

PM] Big Mick BS: Censorship on Mudcat (1009* d) RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat 24 Mar 05

Wolfgang, old cyber friend, you are absolutely correct. My history on this forum will show that I enjoy debate. But I tried the same logic and reason on Roger, and came to the same conclusion. I gave up. He isn't listening, and he loves it up on the cross.

The following is a recent sample of this so-called logic and reasoning, that our volunteer fellow posters think is a good example to set in debate - from their privileged position on our forum.

Subject: RE: BS: I.R.A. Decissioning
From: Big Mick - PM
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 03:33 PM

I am so tired of these apologist bastards. >snip<

Those that equivocate on the issue are idiots.


I have not tried it but I would think that one needs more than a little help from others to place yourself up on a cross. Crucifixion is not to be recommended as suicide either – for no matter how hard you may try – hammering that last nail in is just impossible on your own.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 05:59 PM

I think that one of the reasons that insults occasionally fly around this forum is that some posters don't understand the difference between constructive and destructive criticism.
Earlier this evening (God help me!) I was watching the 'X Factor' on TV. The singing of one of the contestants was completely out of tune with the accompaniment - it was a rather gruesome performance, to put it mildly!. One of the judges (I'm sure you know which one) pointed out that the singer was singing flat - which was perfectly true and should have been uncontroversial. There was a howl of outrage from the audience! The implication being that the judge had no right to say anything negative about the contestant. This attitude is, of course, complete nonsense - the truth may hurt, but how is the contestant supposed to improve if a rather fundamental failing in his singing is not pointed out to him?
Now, of course, the TV audience probably had an average IQ of about 2.5, whilst the average IQ of this forum is, ... oh ... much, much greater ... I mean, really, really big ... better stop there (phew, I think I got away with it!). Nevertheless, I still get the feeling that some people here get outraged if anyone says anything against their favourite singers/musicians and start throwing insults around. In spite of this, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is healthy, likewise honesty is healthy and a questioning attitude is healthy. And, yes, I do believe that telling someone that they are singing flat is constructive, if it is true. If a singer understands that he is singing out of tune then that singer can begin to work on his technique. This process may be painful but in the end the singer will be able to provide a better experience for his audience.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 06:17 PM

Ah reckon an insult should go jest about as fer as the insulter wants the karma headin' back to his/her back porch.

Elmer

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 06:56 PM

GUEST,Fiolaris. I have asked you, and others a number of times to substantiate claims you have made against me. You have a marked reluctance to do so - Please out of common decency either put up or shut up.

I am waiting.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 07:39 PM

I just had your boasting pm forwarded to me. God you are so sick Teribus.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Peace
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 07:40 PM

How far should a insult go?
How long is a piece of string?
How big is a breadbox?

Take the pebble from my hand. When you can . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 09:42 PM

Right up to the hilt.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: John O'L
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 10:56 PM

"...nameless, annonymous, child molesting TWAT"

That's pretty innocuous when compared to the kind of unsubstaniated slander that provoked it.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 12:09 AM

GUEST,Fiolaris

Are you a glass maker?

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 03:31 AM

I think that one of the reasons that insults occasionally fly around this forum is that some posters don't understand the difference between constructive and destructive criticism.

Insults - name-calling - public conversations about named fellow poster sand orcestrated attempts to collectively shout a minority view down - rather than agree or disagree - is the example currently being set by those anonymous few volunteers - who are supposed to be protecting us from such things.

Not only is this example set by those who perhaps could be setting a more positive example - attempts are now made to justified its practice by a few - when these same few can judge and impose their judgement upon the fellow posters.

None of these publicly posted personal judgements (from anyone) has any place in anything that could be described anywhere outside our forum - as a discussion. And this IS a discussion forum.

Our forum has become the special place that it is because the participants recognised that an exaggerated form of polite posting avoided much of the silliness that resulted when other were or thought they were personlly slighted.

The bottom line is to ignore any negetive example currently being set on our forum and ignore insults and any personally directed judgements and try to resist the temptation to post such things. For the only thing that is sure - is that if you post in this fashion - there usually will be a response in kind.

But that works both ways. A polite post - contributing to the discussion - usually brings a respose in kind. All of our forum will benefit from a return this.....................

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 03:33 AM

For to answer the question - an insult does not go very far at all................

For it is not long before it (or something worse) will return to where it originated.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: GUEST,Fiolaris
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 03:48 AM

Family were glass makers, third generation.It's sad to see someone like John O'Lennaine say it's fine to use this term.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: John O'L
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 03:57 AM

Eh?

What I said was that it is less offensive than the unreferenced accusation that provoked it.

All that's required is a pointer to where the alleged remark is made.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:03 AM

So saying he made Irishmen squeal is more offensive than child molesting. Dear Dear John we can see where you stand.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:05 AM

From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 07:39 PM

"I just had your boasting pm forwarded to me."

Have you really? Then you will have no problem in simply providing a reference where we can all view it. Or is it secret.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:10 AM

I really would take the advice of this post.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 09:29 AM

I would substantiate the above. I think it's reasonable to assume there is some form of an underlying psychosis present.The fact he goes into denial over the remarks he made about the Irish, his uncontrolled fits of anger and his fixation with one subject leads me to this conclusion. I suggest Teribus you contact a group in London called AT EASE. They are a confidential counselling service for members and ex members of the Armed Forces. Their address is 1 Elgin Avenue London W9.Good luck with it.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: John O'L
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:26 AM

"So saying he made Irishmen squeal is more offensive than child molesting. Dear Dear John we can see where you stand."

Guest, you are getting very confused here. Saying he said he made IRA men squeal when it seems that he said no such thing is more offensive than anything you can say to someone who will not take an identity. Such a person is impossible to insult.

Where I stand in this thread has more to do with lies than insults, and nothing to do with the Irish.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:46 AM

Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain
From: Joe Offer - PM
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 03:28 PM

I also find it an interesting challeng to respond to insults without resorting to insults. Although I guess I have to admit that I have sometimes given in to that temptation, I think I generally do a pretty good job of expressing myself rationally and with good humor..

------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain
From: Joe Offer - PM
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 03:30 PM

You see, Roger, most of us are here to have a good time among friends. All of your adversarial crap is just that - adversarial crap. We volunteers do what we need to do to keep the peace and tidy things up. Nobody's out to offend your right to free speech - but if you insist on making an asshole of yourself, you're likely to be treated like an asshole. Basically, Mudcat is here for enjoyment - not for all this heavy stuff you try to lay on us. You want to play war games, and that's not what we're here for.

No, I really can't defend our editorial actions, and I have no reason to defend anything to an idiot who can make such a big deal about the addition of three little words, "in the UK," to a thread title. We just try to do what we think is right, to make things run a little more smoothly around here. That's basically what Max asked us to do when he gave us editing buttons. And we volunteers don't pretend to sit in judgment over anybody here, as you so often contend. We're just here to deal with the problems.

If that's not satisfactory to you, so be it. Tough shit, in other words. Nobody named you judge and jury. And despite your four-year campaign, you haven't been able to convince Max to crack down on us volunteers, have you? Doesn't that tell you something?
-Joe Offer-

"We're just here to deal with the problems".

It tells me that the problem is perfectly demonstrated here -

If you are not part of the solution them maybe you ARE all of the problem?

Despite the inability of those who feel themselves qualified to impose their judgement upon the words of their fellow posters to do this - I have demomonstrated over the past few years on our forum - that it is really not very difficult to resist the temptation to respond in kind to all name-calling and publicly expressed personal judgements (and medical diagnosis).

If you ever (even once) choose to give-in to temptation post insults and personal judgements or respond in kind to your fellow posters on our forum - it is always as well to remember that it is an INDULGENCE and it can only encourage others to choose to INDULGE themselves also.

Despite constantly reading the attempt to do this - there can really be little excuse or justification for those fellow posters who repeated choose not to resist this temptation over many years but who would feel qualified to judge and deny other fellow posters this INDULGENCE......

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 08:09 AM

Mr or Mrs Shambles

i get the impression you're very angry.

explain the cause of your distress

short sentences

clarity is all

who knows perhaps we will sympathise

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: GUEST,Les Willy
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 11:40 AM

Someone at a toll booth in Brighton yesterday called me a "moronic, simpering, simple-minded, tit-faced obscenity".

Should I have been offended? Do you think they meant to offend? If so, what should I do about it? Is it too late now?

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 12:15 PM

only if you paid the toll, Les

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:42 PM

how these southerners live! what larks!

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 05:23 PM

i get the impression you're very angry.

Assumptions and impressions are not really very helpful and any anger, personal abuse and name-calling is coming from elswhere. I probably have good reason to feel angry but that is a fairly negative emotion. I am bringing the facts to our forum - in the positive hope that the problem will be addressed and to try and ensure the current situation will not continue.

Any help you can provide - to ensure that all post on our forum can again be treated equally and that all poster's words can continue to remain as posted and free from the imposed personal judgement of a few anonymous volunteer fellow posters - will be much appreciated.

Censorship on Mudcat

Max what about Shambles requests

In the UK

Closing threads

Opening threads a debate

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 05:26 PM

Post to the Getaway thred if you weren't there. You'll find out.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 05:27 PM

You may wish to contribute to some of the threads linked. You will find that some of these threads have been subject to imposed closure and that you will not be able to.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 08:44 PM

Is calling a child-molesting priest a twat an insult to women?

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 08:54 PM

Men and women get insulted at the same rate, so maybe it just doesn't matter.

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 04:52 AM

[PM] Joe Offer BS: Censorship on Mudcat (1009* d) RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat 31 Mar 05

Well, I have to agree with Shambles that Max seems to convey the idea that this is "our" forum. However, it also seems quite clear that very few of us want "our" forum to be taken over by those who would wish to make it a place of combat and chaos.

So, Max appointed some of us to try to keep down the worst of the nastiness. We don't do enough to satisfy some people (Clinton Hammond, for example), and we do too much to satisfy Shambles.

So, we continue to stumble along what we see as the middle path, knowing that we will never satisfy everybody. Such is life.
-Joe Offer-

Can any path were a few anonymous fellow posters themselves INDULGE in this 'combat and chaos' and it is where most of the 'nastiness' divison and secrecy is now emanating from - really be justified with any credibility as a 'the middle path'?

It looks to me as if under the cover of this so-called 'middle path' - our forum has already been 'taken over'. And mainly to enable a few fellow posters to shape our forum and our words to their personal tastes. To freely INDULGE in this 'combat and chaos'(some of them anonymously). Whilst somewhat hypocritically feeling qualified to sit in judgement upon and insult their fellow posters.

The emotion I feel over all this needless posturing and division is not anger - it is sadness. And regret that so many posters seem to accept all this imposed judgement from some of their fellow posters - as if such treatment was all our forum now deserved and there was no alternative............