BS: Blood alcohol level & effects

Subject: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: GUEST,h
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 07:35 AM

I'm wondering how well someone could function with high blood alcohol levels (ie they were drunk.)

Their level was found to be 282 mg/100ml which is 3 1/2 times the UK drink drive limit.

I fall asleep after 1 1/4 units, but I know regular/heavy drinkers who can drink 13 pints of beer and still play an instrument.

Maybe it depends on how much tolerance they had built up, but would 3 1/2 times always make someone falling down drunk ?

Thanks for any info

h

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 07:39 AM

Why would anyone want to know this?

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Paul Burke
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 07:49 AM

I've known steaming people able to play an instrument seamlessly, but fall over puking the moment they got up. Different parts of the brain engaged. I'd like to be able to play stone cold sober as well as they can smashed.

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: GUEST,h
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 07:54 AM

My brother was run over by a car & killed. Blood alcohol level found to be 282 etc.
The sequence of events prior to his being on the road aren't known. eg did he just fall down drunk ?
I'm not a frequent or heavy drinker & I can't imagine what it would be like trying to walk after drinking that much.

Trying to fill in gaps a little, although it could only be hypothetical.

As he always drank a lot I would have thought some tolerance would have built up, but 3 1/2 limit ?

Thanks, h

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 07:55 AM

It depends a lot on body weight, body mass, what else has been consumed and how quickly the alcohol was consumed. You can feed the same person the same amount of alcohol but if it's over 4 hours rather than 1, the result will be different.

The upshot of it is, drinking 3 pints over 3 hours, may make you unstable a lot quicker than if you drank 3 pints over 8 hours.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 08:54 AM

I learned something interestig about alcohol consumption recently.

An experiemnt was done with a group of nice ladies whose custom was to go out together once a week for a night of relaxing good times with the girls. These were adult, responsible women who felt that they held their liquor pretty well-- "I NEVER drive if I think I'm not OK to drive." "I never get actually drunk..."-- their object was not to get sh*tfaced but to just have good clean fun.

So in this experiment they were videotaped as they consumed their usual. For some of them it was a lot; for others it wasn't much. They all stopped at the "OK to drive" point-- or so they thought. Then they were given field sobriety tests and thier blood levels were measured.

Every one of them flunked the basic functions a field sobriety test looks at. Their blood levels were medium to high.

The women then watched themselves, the next day, on tape. Every one of them was totally gomorrahfied at their demeanor-- loud, obnoxious, while finding themselves quite amusing-- we've all seen this effect, haven't we?

The explanation given was not just the old saw that drink loosens inhibitions and makes you feel like you're on top of the world. The explanation was that research has shown that one of the first and most-profoundly-affected parts of the brain, when one is drinking, is the part that generates self-observation. The first part of our minds that is impaired is our innate ability to know how we ourselves ARE.

Even before our judgment is affected, the data upon which to MAKE a judgment is impaired.

I found that really scary. The amount of alcohol it took some people to reach that state of being was really small. And the variation in behavior didn't match their blood alcohol.

In other words, the numbers may match, but the brains don't. Each brain reacts differently. And of course addiction makes that disparity even greater, for most people.

Hardi and I are less tolerant of people driving after drinking than we used to be, when we are the hosts. Their own perceptions just aren't reliable.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: GUEST,h
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 11:24 AM

Unswerable question I'm afraid - but thanks everyone.

Thanks for the info WYSIWYG. it was interesting in itself, & I have been very angry with him for being so STUPID as to get so drunk he couldn't even cross a road, leave 3 kids without a father & traumatise the driver I reckon.

I would support no-alcohol-when-driving-law, though I doubt it would be fully enforceable, but how do you stop people drunk walking ?

Thanks,

h

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 11:46 AM

Guest/h, be well. I feel for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 12:16 PM

What is this all about? We choose how much we drink as individuals and I believe most of us know our limits. Why do we need to talk about it? Let's just go and have too much real ale at the Folk Club!
I'm sure we can still sing and play our instruments when we have had too much.
Seriously....We all make our own choices from lessons we learn..or do we?
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Morticia
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 12:22 PM

I'm very sorry about your brother,h.

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 01:29 PM

I believe I sing better after a few pints. Either that, or my critical faculties suffer after a few!

I know my bowling improves. Stone cold sober I'm too tense & wooden, and my average drops by 15-20 pins per game. This is the only measurable improvement I've been able to attribute to alcohol. All others may be the result of wishful thinking.

Drinking to excess and the driving is, of course, a no-no. However, in the case noted above, if the driver was even slightly over the limit, he would have been prosecuted, with the presumption that he was the cause of the accident. Even so, if the driver was stone cold sober then (as I understand it) this accident still gets included in the statistics for road deaths due to alcohol.

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 02:52 PM

Nigel,

your personal experience with bowling and alcohol makes sense. Fine motor adjustments in tasks with focused attention are performed better with some (some = fairly close to but still below the level for being disallowed to drive) alcohol in the blood. That's why they control for alcohol as a dope in shooting asa competitive sport.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Peace
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 02:58 PM

I'm crazy enough without booze.

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: gnu
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 03:12 PM

Well, that's your opinion... tainted as it is with sobriety!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 03:13 PM

Georgiansilver, please read my post again. The point of it was that there are physiological reasons why we don't actually know our limits.

h, my son was in the Navy, where they have Designated Walkers for party nights in port. He always said it was better to be a Des. Walker than a Des. Walkee. The way they handle it is that the Walkers carry a digital camera, and the Walkee is treated to a photo-essay on what a good time they had, once they sober up. These include the vomiting-on-self-in-the-shower shots, and everything else that happened. The pix are shared with the Walkee privately, and then if they take a turn as Walkee again too soon, their pix are offered to the group along with the first drink. The peer pressure helps some of them drink less, but these are hard-working sailors, not daily consumers/addicts.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: gnu
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 03:22 PM

Excellent program Susan!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 05:33 PM

I also like to remind our son of the night he phoned up to say, in hushed tones, "Mom! You would not believe how HUGE the inside of a 5-gallon white bucket is!" We thought this was a post-binge call.... later we realized he had no memory of the call at all, and must have called dear ole mom and dad in mid-binge. We all laugh about it, but it is also a sobering reminder of the surprising effects booze can have-- most people don't call their MOM to say something like THAT.

I once heard of an oldtime alcoholism remedy that involved locking the person up while drunk, and giving them nothing but watered booze to eat or drink for I-forget-how-long. Being unable to be truly drunk or truly sober over several weeks' time was said to make anyone give up the drink after that treatment.... like a combination of a rough detox and rough aversion therapy, in today's understanding, where they got sick enough to notice being sick, but not so sick as to die from it. I don't advise this.... but clearly, people have struggled with drink for many generations, and many cures have been tried.

I know another case where an extreme, end-stage alcoholic was delivered to the local detox center in the backseat of an experienced clergyman, who simply waited until the said alky was well into his nightly load and then made the trip to rehab. Once detoxed the guy did choose to stay, but even then it was several rehabs later before recovery actually got underway.

Tough disease. Ugly to be shut of it, no matter how it's done. No easy way I ever heard of.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 06:42 PM

Hi, my name is Bobert and I'm an alcoholic... Yeah, I drink at least 6 beers every night, sometimes 8 'er 9 but, hey, I no onger drive after drinkin', no matter if it's one beer 'er three... But this is because I don't want to get busted... But I can drive purdy good with a couple beers in me... Up until about 20 eyars ago I owned and raced a ministock race car and raced in 10 lap "filler" features driving my Karmann Ghia race car at speeds up to like 'round 75 mph and always had a couple beers in me... And though I rubbed a little paint, which was normal racin', I never lost control of the car and had a couple 2nd palce finishes and almost always in the top 5 outta 10 or so cars...

But while I'm on the subject, the DC governemnt awile passed a .04 law meaning that if a cop thought you wwere impaired at .04 he could take you in fir DUI... Fir those of you who may not keep up with the laws, .08 is generally considered the cut off so the .04, which has just been changed, was like in some folks case a single drink ( 1 oz. of alcohol)...

Excuse me, think I'll go fetch another chilly one...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 07:01 PM

I am sorry for your loss - but keep a sense of perspective. I believe the science of the situation is that 1 unit may actually improve driving capability, but it affects perception more, so that the self belief is that ability is better than it actually is. Nonetheless, there is no legitimate need to ban driving after taking alcohol unless the alcohol level creates a significant safety hazard.

Back in the 60s I used frequently to drive after 5 or 6 pints. Sometimes more. Never stuffed a motor due to drink. Mind you I would never have touched a Karmann-Ghia. I prefer cars that go where you point them (not backwards).

Those creating a major road hazard (whether due to alcohol or not) merit punishment and rehabilitation. A witch hunt creates disrespect for the law and greater disobedience to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 07:29 PM

Now say yer sorry, Richard, 'cause that was right mean spirited on yer part... Hey, nuthin' wrong with a Karmann Ghia as a race car, after to cut the front torson bars and weld 'um so the front end is rock hard and you decamber the rear of the car and chain it down... Handles like a real race car goes where ever you point it... Actually it goes better to where you pointed it if ya gotta couple chilly ones in ya'... Ahhh, couple means 2 here, folks... Not 3 'er 6 'er 16, gol dang it...

Stroker Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: LilyFestre
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 10:34 PM

What is this all about? We choose how much we drink as individuals and I believe most of us know our limits. Why do we need to talk about it?

I imagine that you have never loved someone who was killed due to drinking and driving or had someone pick a bottle of alcohol over being part of your family, watched someone die because they drank so much that their liver quit or how about a phone call that said your college aged child have died from alcohol poisoning.

Apparently folks DO need a helping hand when drinking gets out of hand. It's serious stuff...don't ever be fooled into thinking it isn't.

Something else you might want to consider when folks are drinking as to amounts....medications drastically effect how a body reacts to alcohol.

One that makes little sense but is quite true is this...a diabetic who is drinking may appear to be drunk and having a grand old time. One might think that alcohol, due to sugar content involved, would raise blood sugar levels, but in actuality, blood sugar levels drop. A diabetic with low blood sugar will exhibit the same behaviors as someone who is drunk. This becomes extremely dangerous if the diabetic passes out...friends will think that so and so had too much to drink....chances are that they have passed out due to low blood sugars and need medical attention (and some form of sugar) IMMEDIATELY.

Sure, we are adults and SHOULD be able to make responsible decisions for ourselves. Alcohol overrides that. I think it's up to everyone to make sure that when one person is unable to make safe decisions for themselves, to step in...no matter how cranky the drinker might get about it.

*stepping down from my soapbox*

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 12:33 AM

You are emerging from a minor road at a junction with the main highway. You see a car travelling towards you . You make a judgment; I could more than likely be out and up to speed before the car reaches the intersection.But you weigh possibilities quickly --and probably subconsciously--and stay put till the car passes.
Next day you leave the local pub with one whisky inside you. You arrive a moment or two later at the same intersection. You see a car coming toward you, at the same speed and distance as above. You confidently believe that you are ok to come out, and put the foot down, and come out.Probably perfectly safely. Probably. The point is , your CONFIDENCE was affected, albeit slightly, by that one whisky. And confidence affects judgment. The only safe level of alcohol is --zero.

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: GUEST,Ingrid Frances Stark
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 01:48 AM

I drive a taxi. I drive home a lot of drunks. Sometimes, I drive the same ones back the next day to pick up their cars. I don't drink anymore.
One of our drivers lost her six year old grandson to a drunk driver. It was his seventh offense.
The only driver our company has ever lost in the line of duty was killed by a drunk driver.
If you drink, don't drive. Call a cab. Tip the driver. Its a lot cheaper than DUI tickets, and less damaging to your soul than killing someone when you're blotto.

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Barry Finn
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 02:42 AM

You can drink all you want, just don't drive after. You've the right to kill yourself but not to kill another. Sorry about your brother H.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: GUEST,georgiansilver
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 03:18 AM

Hi again Susan.
And if you read the last few words of my post again you will see that I have understood what you said fully.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 04:36 AM

Ingrid - just what an older friend told me in 1963. He drove drunk, lost his driver's license and it had cost him about 8.000,- Deutsche Mark. A taxi would have cost him DM 8,-. I remembered this until the year 2000, when I was invited by friends to a small glass of wine, and the next one, and so on .... Mounting my car I didn't feel unfit. Driving my car I saw a red light too late and bumped into the car before me. Behid me stopped a patrol car.
A blood test resulted in 2 promille of alcohol in my blood. I lost my drivers license and protection by insurance. I cost me over DM 50.000.
Since then I support the movement for no alcohol when driving.

I am of an old family of innkeepers (first mentioned in 14 century), since the 18th century all brave students at our state university well known for the heavy drinking of its students. So I could stand a lot (more than a gallon every night, six nights a week) and went home without falling. I stopped that when married, and now I have promised my wife to disregard boozing. It makes her happier - and me, as I have noticed.

Being a little bit tipsy can make you a little bit merrier, there are some very fine absurd jokes coming to your mind, and it is a fine medium for social gatherings with a lot of singing and music (at the firemen's band our trombonists couldn't play well without one or two beers, and I played the bass better with some beers, too). But anybody drinking too much will be a nuisance in society, and his peers should tell him so. Sometimes it helps (with me it did).

The argument, that everybody knows his limits is a silly one. It isn't true and mostly used by people who don't know their limits.

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 05:48 AM

Richard Bridge's no legitimate need to ban driving after taking alcohol unless the alcohol level creates a significant safety hazard argumentation makes more sense than Boab's the only safe level of alcohol is --zero.

Ripe fruits (bananas in particular) have alcohol in them, Kefir can have as much alcohol as a light beer, all fruit juices sold in Germany come with a bit of alcohol etc. The healthy human body always has a bit of alcohol in it.

So from a legal point of view a zero limit is nonsense in comparison with a low limit aboive zero.

Boab's don't drink at all rule makes sense for those who cannot stop after the first drink. For some it is easier not to drink at all.

My personal rule varies with the situation. I know that after drinking alcohol sustained concentration is much more difficult for me and that quick reaction to unexpected situations is worse. So I'd drink nothing at all during or before a long journey, would drink up to one glass of wine before a short trip in a new environment, would drink up to 2 glasses of wine before a short trip on a well known country road with close to no traffic and up to three glasses of wine before cycling.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 07:30 AM

Even though I chose to make a funny outta the "I'm an alcoholic" there is a part of me that very well understands alcoholism... I spent several years working as a GED teacher and counselor in a drug treatment program and then a year as :outreach" director of an alcoholism treatment program...

The way we defined alcoholism is that if the consumption, irregardless of type ot quanity, was creating problems fir you, you needed to stay away from it... A lot of folks here have mentioned drunk driving. Well, yes, if you driving drunk you definately haver a problem with alcohol but not everyone who has ever driven impaired needs to enter a 12 step program and quit fir life... This is where education comes in. If someone who has driven while while impaired is capable of learning that it is not right and discontinues the practice then they may very well not have a problem with alcohol.. But if they stay home and drink and get beligerant with the neighbors, well then again, they do...

See, drivin' isn't the only yard stick here... Other behaviors, like missin work ot getting in senseless arguments, can be as equally damaging to either one's self or others... And there are folks who can have two or three drinks and they are terrors and others, like me, who can drink 6 beers, have a mellow evening playin' here at Mudcat, tuckin' my purdy wife in at 10 and catchin' the 11:00 news before turning in...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 08:06 AM

A few random points:

Tired drivers can be as dangerous as drunk drivers. Probably tired people can cause as much domestic strife as drunk people. Depression is another disabling factor. The last two we don't legislate for.

A few years ago, there was a major rail crash in the UK caused by poor maintenance. To save money, the contractor had cut down on inspection, and a broken rail brought a 100mph train to ground, killing many. The accountant who took the decision to reduce standards was stone cold sober. At the same time, a rail employee who sold you a ticket while drunk, or even not drunk but having taken alcohol at work, would have been open to instant dismissal, and could even have been jailed.

A friend has deteriorated to the point where, though formerly an excellent fiddler, he can no longer play reliably or often even tolerably. He resents anyone criticising his playing even in the mildest way, and is likely to threaten them with violence. He has been barred from almost every session for many miles around. He was abused as a child.

Another friend's father was dying painfully of cancer. Being a strict Dutch Calvinist, he abhorred the use of alcohol in excess, but it was the only thing he would take that would keep the pain within limits. His daughter would supply him with a small bottle of Jenever at the start of the day, and when he fell asleep, quietly top it up so it was always about two thirds full. He was drinking two or even three full bottles a day, but because he didn't know it, both he retained his self respect and a degree of comfort.

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Pseudolus
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 12:10 PM

I agree that the only absolutely safe level is zero based on my second belief which is, the majority of people DO NOT know their limits. Also, I believe that how two glasses of wine or three glasses of wine affects you can vary on your situation. If you are really tired it may take less alcohol to affect your ability to drive. Not to mention medication, stress levels or the strength of the wine itself. If you're driving, just don't do it.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 12:13 PM

I was 9 when my 17yr old brother was killed by a drunk driver. A few years later, the same man killed another teenager. His first punishment was a fine. If he'd lost his licence as he should have done, that other teenager would still be alive now.

I won't drink more than a few mouthfuls of wine or beer if I know I'm going to be driving. I won't drink much if I know I'm going to be driving the following day - having been in the car twice with someone who HAD been drinking heavily the night before and who threw up over the steering wheel, while the car was in motion.

Bobert - I can see what you were aiming for, but there really is no funny side to some things.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: LilyFestre
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 04:24 PM

His first punishment was a fine?!?!?!?! He killed someone and only had to pay a fine?!?!?!?!   I know it happens....plenty...but it still is incredulous to me. I think that even taking his license is not enough. A person who gets behind the wheel after drinking and is caught should lose his license, IMMEDIATELY. How do they get home? Call a cab, walk, thumb a ride, call mommy or daddy...sleep it off under a tree....just get off the damn road. The person who injures someone while drinking and driving should go directly to jail...no questions asked. The person who decided to drink alcohol and get behind the wheel of a car and then takes someone else's life deserves a very long jail sentence IMO. I don't think it's any different if someone takes out a knife and stabs someone to death or if they drink and get behind the wheel of a car and kills someone...both were controllable (is that even a word?) situations and the person on the receiving end will never get a second chance.

Sorry Bobert, I agree with LTS...some things just aren't funny.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Wesley S
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 04:35 PM

From what I've heard it can be really tough to prosecute these offenders. Lawyers like to remind juries that this offence is something that we've all done in the past - and it's possible we might do it again. And for some reason juries tend to get sympathic when they hear this and let the drivers off with a slap of the wrist. Go figure...

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 05:08 PM

For myself I have a strict no drinking rule when I am driving. I believe that in Germany, the police can prosecute a car driver, who falls asleep drunk in the back of his car. Whereas I can appreciate the point that it is better that the police always have the power to prevent drunk driving, I have some misgivings about that one. It could well motivate someone, who would otherwise have laid down, to take the risk and drive.
When I was on the road as a busker, I stayed dry when I was in my bus unless there were other buskers parked around. You never know who is going to come knocking on your door in the middle of the night. So I wanted to be able to drive away at any time at all if I needed to.

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 06:13 PM

Driving can be dangerous without drink...depends who's driving!

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 06:18 PM

He got a fine because it was the 1970's and he pleaded that he would lose his livelihood if he lost his licence. He was a taxi driver. The court decided that it was 'accidental death' because he was crossing the road at the time. The fact that the car hit him on the wrong side of the road seemed to escape the coroner.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 06:20 PM

Liz...unfortunately this sort of thing happens....and we can't do a blind thing about it!

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: LilyFestre
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 06:30 PM

Georgiansilver,

   I think that you are missing the entire point. OF COURSE driving can be dangerous without having had a drink so why in God's name would adding alcohol (at any amount) be a good thing? IT'S NOT.

   I know the following comment should go in the Irritating Phrases thread, but considering the post before mine....the phrase...actually, the WORD...UNFORTUNATELY bugs me to no end. In this case, Liz lost her brother and someone has the unmitigated gall to say...UNFORTUNATELY blah blah blah. Talk about a cold, callous, don't give a shit kind of word.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Peace
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 06:54 PM

I respond to about 30 motor vehicle collisions and roll-overs per year. Ask me what I think about people who drink and drive.

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Peace
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 07:05 PM

On second thought, please don't ask.

Subject: RE: BS: Blood alcohol level & effects
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 05:32 AM

The "unfortunate" thing was not that the driver got off with a fine, but that he did it again.... he drove whilst under the influence of alcohol. Obviously the burnt hand did not teach best in his case. But if it had been his child killed or injured, you can bet your life he would have pressed for the maximum penalty.

I never knew what my father thought about the person who killed his son, but I recently attended the funeral of a cousin, about the same age as my brother would have been. His father, my uncle, expressed the opinion that had the other driver not been killed also, my uncle would have gladly committed murder. This driver was not drunk and it was not dark. This driver was sober and he had his family in the car with him, but he still chose to ignore traffic signals and speed limits.

Perhaps regrettably would be a better word. I know it happens. But as far as I'm concerned, it's going to happen to other people, I won't put myself in such a position as to spend the rest of my life regretting.

LTS