BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush

Subject: Absolute Power and it's Oedipal Consequences
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 03:42 PM

So... In trying to seperate and DISTINGUISH THE DIFFERENCE between "Neo-Con Carnage" and "Red Blooded Conservative American Values"... I've been doin' a li'l readin'up.


Here's an excerpt from the 1998 publication "A World Transformed"... by Brent Scowcroft and George Herbert Walker Bush.

    "Trying to eliminate Saddam...would have incurred incalculable human and political costs... We would have been forced too occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq... there was no viable "exit strategy" we could see, violating another of our principles. Furthermore, we had been consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post- Cold War world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilateraly exceeding the United Nation's mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to agression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land."

'Nuff said.
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 03:58 PM

I can't say that I was all that fond of George H. W. Bush, but at least he wasn't stupid. It's obvious that Dubya didn't learn much at his daddy's knee.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 04:22 PM

Naw, I think Daddy thought it over since then and thought he had a plan that would work.

Or Dubya thought Daddy'd like to see him go get 'er done for him.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 04:31 PM

Under the guidence of the neo-con "daggers behind the throane," this is probably exactly what Dubya wants. One of the main goals of the neo-cons is to bankrupt the country so that it can no longer afford social programs such as food stamps, Medicare and Medicaid, funding for education, and all the country's more decent accomplishments within recent decades. Grover Norquist wants to "drown government in the bathtub" for exactly that reason.

Between the huge tax cuts for the wealthy and "giant sucking sound" (to paraphrase Ross Perot) of the national treasury vanishing into this Iraqi fiasco, they seem to be doing a fairly efficient job of it. The recent budget and its Draconian cuts in social programs that a large percentage of the country's population depends on tend to bear this out.

Plus, of course, the geopolitical power that permanent bases in the Middle East to maintain control over a large percentage of the world's fossil fuel resources. China, for example, is becoming more and more dependent on oil, and if we control the tap, we also exert a measure of control over China. Or, at least, that's the theory.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 05:01 PM

Did not major events happen after that publication? Most people can experience a change in opinion. Some, of course, have a mindset that is unalterable. An example is "tax cuts for the wealthy" Once more, this was an across the board tax cut. The top 5% of the higher income group pay over 50% of the total tax. Ah yes, the mindset!

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 05:05 PM

Ah, the recalcitrance of anonymous taxi drivers who should be running the world!

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 05:05 PM

Part of dubya's problem may have been that instead of thinking of consulting an ex-president - one who has been there - he thought of and rejected the advice and information that his daddy gave. In re-inventing the wheel, so to speak, civilization fell backward.

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 05:07 PM

...with a very LOUD THUMP!

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 05:27 PM

Call it a "mindset" if you want, GUEST. I got about $200 back last year. That was very nice. But some people got hundreds of thousands, if not millions, back. Considering the screwing that a lot of needy people are getting, I would just as soon the gummint had kept it (along with the aforementioned hundreds of thousands, if not millions) and used it to help a lot of people who really need help. By the way, Barbara and I donated our tax cut to a very worthy cause.

"Mindset" my ass!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 05:46 PM

Well, that's the problem with this current Bush... I don't know where this drunk frat boy came to think he knew everything but he don't... Might of fact, given his track record in life he has messed up everything that he has been *given*.

He messed up his Air National Guard plum that daddy pulled strings to get him...

He messed a baseball team that daddy bought him...

He messed up Harkin Energy thast daddy bought him...

Now it looks like he's messed up our country and his dadddy and his daddy's buddies bought him...

Well, one thing is fir certain... The boy don't learn nuthin' and that is the problem with havin' him as president...

I don't hate the guy but he seems to be incapable of learnin' much of anything...

Yeah, I think that a little stubborness is an admirable trait but this guy makes a mule seem wishy washy...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Peace
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 05:47 PM

"The top 5% of the higher income group pay over 50% of the total tax. Ah yes, the mindset!"

I think this is BULLSHIT. However, I could stand being corrected, after which I will apologize for saying it's BULLSHIT. I don't suppose you have anything as mundane as proof?

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 05:50 PM

What does getting back $ have to do with anything?
Anyone that got a refund in the "hundred of thousands or millions" (which I have trouble believing) certainly did not their deductions in order at the beginning of the tax year. Actually, I don't believe it - anyone capable of that income bracket is going to be smart enough to not allow an interest free savings account. Marlarkey!

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Peace
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 06:00 PM

Marlarkey. That's the word I was looking for. Thanks, GUEST.

"The top 5% of the higher income group pay over 50% of the total tax. Ah yes, the mindset!"

I think this is MARLARKEY. However, I could stand being corrected, after which I will apologize for saying it's MARLARKEY. I don't suppose you have anything as mundane as proof?

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: number 6
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 06:29 PM

"The Top of the Mornin to ya"

... the top 5% of the higher income group!! Who gives a flying crap ... it's about all the killin' over there in Iraq. When is this going to all end?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Deda
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 06:39 PM

In the Oct 31, '05 edition of the New Yorker there's a long article called "Breaking Ranks" by Jeffrey Goldberg. It's about Brent Scowcroft's falling out with the current administration, although he was very close to Bush senior and helped mastermind the original Gulf war, including its conclusion. He was the national security advisor when Saddam invaded Kuwait in 1990. He has nothing good at all to say about Bush junior, nor about the neocons generally. This is a painful position for him because Bush senior was someone he loved and admired, but this crowd have no interest in consulting or learning from anyone, regardless of their training or experience or wisdom. Scowcroft more or less "discovered" Condi Rice, pulled her out of Academia into the national foregin policy scene -- but she hasn't consulted him or listened to him for years now, because she's now a W-robot, and the W-bots just don't listen to ANYBODY, as a matter of policy.

I didn't much like Bush senior when he was in office but he looks like a screaming genius compared to this bunch of wing nuts.

Oh, and PS, I think a progressive tax, where the very wealthy pay a larger percentage than the very poor, is an enlightened and necessary thing in this world.

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 07:20 PM

O.K. ya'all... Some drift, some good points... but mostly just the same old tired Bush Bashing, from the same tired ol' Bush Bashers. Talk about beating a dead horse... Don't you realize how stupid you look when you call the president stupid? Duh...

IMHO, seems to me he didn't exactly get "the pick of the litter" from his dad's cohorts... in fact, on closer inspection, perhaps "Double U" got stuck with the 'hard cases'... the ones who his dad couldn't really let loose... because their impulses were too... ummm... shall we say.... crude and undiplomatic? So, still having a bone to pick with the world, maybe they picked Double U to usher them in...

Isn't it odd how a small clique of radicals could lower the political bar so low... that the mightiest nation on God's green earth is absolutely obsessed with a creepy thing of a thug... a veritable flea in the world arena... and, quite honestly... lowering our national exchange of ideas forums to a pitiful ad hominem geurilla warfare type of bullying sleaze... Strange to say... but isn't this crudeness a reasonable approximation of what we find loathesome about Saddam?

Let's raise the bar! K?
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 07:48 PM

As fir the tax thing, Bruce, If the upper 5% control 50% of the wealth then the 50% would be about right... But it don't matter... It's just a dumbass stat...

Hey, don't take a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows an' it's blowin' in the face of the poor and middle class right now... They are loosin' and the ruich are gettin' rich beyond their wildest dreams...

But worse than that, they are flauntin' it... This is goina' eventually backfire on them as folks fall further and further behind as stagnated wages and higher health costs force more and more middle class families down the totum poll toward the abyss with little or no hope of ever being able to retire...

It's allready happenin' as I see more and more very senior citizens havin' to work as clearks in box stores... There's an old man who collects the shopping carts back up West Ginny at the Martin's Groceries... Don't matter if it's 100% 'er snowin' you see that poor broken down old man out in the parking lot pushin' carts fir $7.00 an hour...

Oh sure, one of the aristocrats will come along and say he's does it 'cause he likes the job... Hey, get yer fat ass on a plane and go see him fir yerself and come back here and tell us that poor old man does it fir kicks!!!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: GUEST,Just Curious
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 08:01 PM

Thomas, your last post leaves me a bit confused as to where you expected this thread to go, especially in the light of your first post. I believe it was going along pretty much as you appeared to intend, at least until GUEST -- 19 Nov 05 - 05:01 PM got on Don Firth's case for his comments about tax breaks for the wealthy in relation to what he (DF) perceives to be a deliberate attempt on the part of neo-conservatives to reduce the financial resources of the country to the point where welfare and social safety net programs can no longer be funded. Considering the comments of many neo-conservatives such as Nordquist and others, plus the chain of events leading to the drastic social welfare cuts in the recently passed budget, it appears to me that DF has a defensible point. GUEST tries to blow it off by accused him of a liberal "mindset." Ad hominem? Red herring? Straw man?

In my own opinion, I don't consider GWB to be stupid, but I do believe he is not the brightest bulb on the tree. He probably has sufficient competence to do reasonably well in a middle management position. I just think that as President of the United States, he's in way over his head. I see him as the figurehead and fall guy for a group of pretty predatory people.

In your first post, you contrast Herbert G. W. Bush's 1998 comments with the behavior of his son. Where did you expect this thread to go?

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 08:55 PM

I have no expectations... but if experience dictates... the shorthand is sparse and consistant.

I'm simply pointing out the obvious...

...That there is a wide gulf of disagreement between the 'radical' and largely intollerant neo-con approach to international affairs, and the much more carefully thought out and diplomatic "red blooded conservative" approach to international relations...

Its as clear as day.
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 10:04 PM

and back to the beginning - such a good post it deserves repeating..

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: kendall
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 07:20 AM

I have a copy of Bush's student record. With help he was able to come out average.

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 07:38 AM

But in spite of all the above what he really wants is religious freedom in China!
China is already free from religion and long may it stay so.

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 08:09 AM

In fact China is not "free of religion" including Christianity--and the present government is waffling on what to do about, specifically, Christianity.

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 08:10 AM

Or even "free from religion".

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 09:37 AM

Yes GHWB wrote of the immeasurable cost of occupying Iraq.

With many of the same cronies re-appointed under "Jr.", the earlier advice was over ridden by Rumsfeld and Cheney.

Let us not forget that Colin Powell advised W that "if you invade Baghdad, you will end up OWNING Iraq - at a cost too large to imagine..."

Colin Powell was forced out with a lesser award than was even given Tenet.

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 10:15 AM

GHW Bush wasn't perfect--nor the devil incarnate.

Probably his worst fault was that he has "brought to you" the current "leader". Though obviously Rove had something to do with it too.

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Amos
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 10:19 AM

Thomas:

I have called W stupid several hundred times on these threads, because events continuously remind me of the fact.

Calling a viper a viper may look stupid to you, but my take is that it is necessary to repeat the simple truth of the matter until it sinks in across the boards.

You may feel from your high, exterior perspective that this requires no pointing out because it is too obvious.

But there are still a good 30-40% of the voting mass who haven't cottoned on to their awful mistake.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 10:24 AM

Amos--

I would disagree with the characterization of "W" as stupid. That undersestimates the danger he has posed and continues to pose. He, and his minions, are rather, expert demagogues--and hate and fear, it's been often proven, work like a charm in uncertain times.

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 10:25 AM

"underestimates"--I gotta start proofreading a bit more--"Physician, heal thyself".

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 12:41 PM

My high exterior perspective... uhhh... fine one to talk you are, Amos...

Calling the elected president of a sanctioned democracy 'stupid' several hundred times, is tantamount to abusive behavior. Gonna bash your way to the true and right just like Saddam, there Amos?

No matter... reaching people, and offending them are two different things... and I for one am just now learning to tell the difference. Care to join me?

Believe in the people, strengthen thy self!
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 06:25 PM

He isn't stupid, he's evil

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 06:32 PM

"That undersestimates the danger he has posed and continues to pose."

Don't misunderestimate him.

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 06:45 PM

Well, he is certainly evil but there is quite a high level of supidness to him...

I guess it comes down to how one defined stupid...

Maybe "insane" is a better word...

See, the problem with Bush is that folks keep giving him one more cahnce to do the right, ahhhh, strike that, the *correct* thing but he continuously makes the wrong choice....

I mean, even last Friday, in attackin' the Dems... This was the wrong choice. Why? Well, this oughtta seem purdy danged obvious but all he did was rile veryone up... Yeah, he is danged good at riling everyone up but the problem with riling everyone up is that after he has riled everyone up and the dust settles, his approval ratings are lower than before the latest riling up of folks...

Now I'm not sure if that is stupid or insane or maybe a combination of the two??? But it's definately somewhere close...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: GUEST,A
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 06:52 PM

Let us know if you figure out if it is "insane or stupid"

Keeping in mind, however, after he did what he did, Congress voted 402-003 in favor of NOT pulling out of Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 06:53 PM

www.toostupidtobepresident.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 07:22 PM

Don't get all excited about that little politcal trap that the Repubs set... It's was nuthin' more tha a gimick and won't stop the American people or the House from askin' Bush fir a clear cut plan other than "stay the course", whcih if ya' ain't got a plan to begin with ain't like, ahhhh, a plan???

Unless, GUEST A, maybe you'd like to explain what "the plan" is fir us???

Then maybe, since yer guy is the one accusing others of trying to rewrite history, tell us why we invaded Iraq to begin with??? If it was WMD's then when we found there weren't any, why didn't we leave???

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 07:24 PM

If you don't find it, then how do ya know it's not there? Simple logic, really. Get with the program, Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 07:29 PM

"In my own opinion, I don't consider GWB to be stupid, but I do believe he is not the brightest bulb on the tree. He probably has sufficient competence to do reasonably well in a middle management position. I just think that as President of the United States, he's in way over his head. I see him as the figurehead and fall guy for a group of pretty predatory people."

I have to agree with that. [By the way, GUEST,Just Curious, thank you for your support.]   I don't think George W. Bush is stupid, evil, or insane. I think he's a sort of average, perhaps one can say mediocre man. His history seems to bear that out. An indifferent student at both Yale and Harvard, where, quite probably he couldn't have got in had he not been a Bush (legacy kind of thing). Party boy in college; dunno what his grades were but he probably slid by on Cs. Wimped our on Vietnam by getting daddy to pull a few strings so he could jump the line and get into the Texas Air National Guard. Good pilot. Top 5% of his class. Seemed to like flying a lot. Then wimped out on that. Couldn't be bothered to show up after he transferred to Alabama (Dan Rather's goof was in not getting the document properly verified—in the light of the stink that caused, people lose sight of the fact that the story itself was true. There are those who think that was the whole purpose of feeding Rather a phony document.). Daddy bought him an oil company and he drove it into bankruptcy. Then daddy bought him a baseball team and he managed to screw that up. So where else could he go?

Politics, of course.

Being essentially clueless, realizing it to a degree and, hence, malleable, and because of the Bush name-recognition, he was a prime candidate for the neo-conservative puppet masters. And it turns out he's not real good at handling that, either. But he'll take most of the rap for the Machiavellian machinations of the neo-cons who are pulling his strings.

Through all his life, George W. Bush has been and still is the living example of the Peter Principle at work. He is constantly being promoted to positions that are beyond his level of competence. I think GUEST,Just Curious is right:   "He probably has sufficient competence to do reasonably well in a middle management position. I just think that as President of the United States, he's in way over his head."

When I hear Bush speak, I'm really tempted to think, "Jeez, what an idiot!!" But in more reflective moments, I tend to feel a bit sorry for the poor sod. History is not going to be kind to him.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 07:42 PM

The 'history' Bush leaves behind isn't going to be kind to the rest of us, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: GUEST,A
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 08:37 PM

Bobert, I don't have a clue as to the "plan." Plus, your post seemed to be somewhat incoherent to me. If you need an answer, go ask the 402 Repubs AND Dems that voted not to withdraw from Iraq.

Please, don't check in with the other 003 like you are prone to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: GUEST,A
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 08:39 PM

And Bobert, it WAS the House!

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 09:28 PM

Listen, GUEST A, can you friggin' read??? I said the "House" in my 7:22 post so what's the big deal...

You have missed the entire point on the vote... This was a Republican trap set fir unsuspecting Dems... Didn't get too many... Stay tuned as over the next weel or two the House dems will write a "real" bill, not a PR stunt, that will ask Bush to clarify the goald of the US and set some realistic troop withdrawls based on things like Iraqis trained to defend themselves...

As much as you would love fir this war to continue forever, it can't... Get over it!!!

And I knew you didn't hava a clue as to what "the plan" might be because there isn't one...

What kind of foriengn policy is that???

Nevermind, I know yer answer... "Danged if I know"...;

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: GUEST,A
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 10:47 PM

The House has made their choice; Stay the course!

"Unsuspecting Dems?" Why did they all vote in favor of the no withdrawl?
Can they all be "unsuspecting?" Or just afraid to make a decision on their own? What makes you think that next week will be any different or is that just wishful thinking on your part?

My, my, you certainly have a low flare point which leads me to believe you just don't know what you are talking about.

You are the one talking about a "plan". Please share with us if you can or are you just daydreaming like the Dems?

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 11:08 PM

Sorry Guest A--the very fact that Republicans would sponsor anything requiring more certification of progress in Iraq--not just body counts--establishes a lot more than "stay the course"---it means they're also getting impatient.    After all, since the "victory" all we've seen is more dead--Iraqis and "coalition" troops-----and progressively more indication of breakup of the country de facto---the "constitution" provides for it--and incipient civil war.

Guess who is caught in the middle when the civil war heats up.

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Amos
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 12:06 AM

Well, I think he is deep-in-the-bone stupid, the kind that comes from booze, drugs, more privelege than one can outgrow and a kind of thickheadedness about life. That is not to say he cannot be clever, and he has demonstrated he can weasel with the best. No question. But fer cry-i -- here's a guy who had an opportunity to make major advances in the real problems of the day, and instead turned the nation's deficit upside down in order to have him a war he didn't need. Coming to office at the crest of a rising wave of human harmful impacts on the environment, he undermines environmental efforts, and short-changes science. He uses the highest pulpit in the land to suggest that gay marriage ought to be banned in the United States Constitution. Given an opportunity to support major advances in medical research, he decides to side with reactionary religionists to suppress those advances. He starts a war without even planning to lock the other side out of their ammo dumps, armor our Humvees, or figger out where the exit is or how to finish the job.

These are glaring errors; if I don't attribute them to stupidity on his part, I have to conclude that he in being intentionally destructive, which makes him psychotic. 'Course, that's perfectly possible. But, to my mind, you have to be kinda stupid to go crazy.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 06:02 AM

I have to disagree with that last sentence Amos. Many of the world's great crazies were highly intelligent, and all the more dangerous for that.

GeeDub is a man with more cunning than intelligence, who has got himself in a lose/lose situation. He must pull out of Iraq if he wants to regain any credibility with the rest of the world, but he can't pull out because civil war would result, culminating in rule by Ayatollahs whose policies would be directly counter to US interests.

He has, by his own dumb actions, placed his arse in a huge wringer, and the only thing that surprises me about that, is the lack of volunteers to turn the handle.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: GUEST,A
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 07:21 AM

Geez, Amos, I am beginning to wonder who is psychotic here.

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 08:02 AM

GUEST A says while looking in the mirror...

Yer may be right, Amos, he may indeed be pschotic but my money is more on criminal or evil because he has let danged near any corporation that has the big bucks have their way with the Amercian middle class and America's poor...

Yeah, I don't concern myself too much with the usual emotional issues such as gay marriage, abortion or prayer in school... These are nuthin' but smoke-screen issues to keep folks from really understanding how big business is screwing the avearage American...

Yeah, not too far under the emotional issues we see the lobbiest camped out like fleas in the House and Senate office buildings... These are the folks whop are actuallt writing the legislation, not congressmen....

Take a look at the perscription drug program fir instance... This ain't nutyhin' but a redestribution of wealth away from the average tax payer to the wealth pharacudical and insurance folks... Meanwhile, the lederly will be paying more fir the ir perscriptions, not less...

(Tell 'um how much this hiest is gonna coast the taxpayers for which the old people won't get any more benefit, BObert)

Oh yean, 'bout $270B over 10 years!!! That's billion, folk!!!! Now don't go ask me to provide you with my sources... By now, everyone here knows someone who is stuggling with the plans and all the folks I've talked to say their drugs are gonna cost them more... But don't believe me... As k yer mom, 'er next door neighbor, 'er yer older sister... Just ask 'um....

See, thats kinda why my money is on criminal... Bush is like holding the average taxpayer down while the big corporations riffle thru his pockets for money...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: GUEST,A
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 08:07 AM

Interesting Bobert, I make a comment about who might be psychotic and here you are.

How can the drugs increase in price - what were they without a drug plan? You just don't know, do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Brought to you by... GHWBush
From: leftydee
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 10:14 AM

Come on , Guest A.... It's obvious to those of us with average intelligence that the Bushies are doing whatever it takes to take whatever is available and passing it up to the "already have too muches". By bankrupting America it gives them a reason to remove all safety nets and social programs and, thus, give a permanent under class for fodder for their descendents. It's not the poor that are under attack, it's the the middle-class. We are being pushed closer to poverty daily. These idiotic tax cuts just pass our debts to our grandchildren. Do you you want your grandkids to live in a third world economy? I have nothing against capitalism. I own a small biz myself. I do object to profiteering. It is reprehensible what the drug companies do. They have you by the scrotum and they not going to let you go. It's a small group of companies (nod, nod, wink, wink) that keep prices ridculously high and have the government protect the scam. This shit started with that union busting bastard Reagan. "Come on boys, let's shovel some more money upstairs!"

I guess what I'm most amazed by is that none of these greedy fuckers realize that the middle class is what makes America tick. We fuel the economy and do the chores. When we're gone, then what?