Tech. Reinstalling Windows

Subject: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: Gurney
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 04:06 AM

NOT the Les Barker poem.

I'm not yet on XP, but my boy is. The other day, HIS machine wouldn't boot, and he had been warned not to use the XP disk (for unspecified reasons), so he took it to the repairer. "Software," they said. "Hand over the dosh." 1/9th of the cost of the computer.

Ok, it is fixed, a .dll file was missing, but ARE there traps to reinstalling XP? The 'Help' on the computer won't open! (Why is that?) There is no handbook. There is no boot disk. There is no-one in this house who knows XP. (W98, no problem. I fought that to a draw.)

So, could someone tell me, do we just put the disk in and follow instructions, make a boot disk, and carry on? Abuse Microsoft and try to get a disk with a working Help file? (Thought. Does Help only work with the disk in?)
Bloody computers. This one is 3 months old.

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: treewind
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 04:20 AM

If you've got a proper XP install CD and the ID code to go with it, it's not difficult to install.

"Bloody computers. This one is 3 months old."
Well, is it the computer's fault (i.e. duff hardware) or Microsoft's?

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 04:32 AM

If you have the complete new XP installation on disc then it would probably be better to format your hard drive and do a clean installation. It's always better to start off with a clean slate if possible.
Giok

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: Dave Earl
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 04:33 AM

I've got what seems like a similar problem.

XP machine came with XP pre-installed. No XP disc as such but a "restore" disc supplied by Shop.

Can't do a "clean" re-install cos when I restore from disc I get all the crap that the supplier loaded in too.

Having said that when I got XP to the point where it seems stable the built in Restore feature seems to be a reasonable fall-back point if a system file gets deleted or corrupted. Don't think that will be much help if the machine won't fire up in the first place.

Dave Earl

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 04:40 AM

Try Linux, you might like it well enough to wonder why you paid for expensive software. I can assure you I do.

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 04:47 AM

There is a facility to make your own set of rescue/recovery discs although you need about 10 blank CDs Once you have the system working OK that's the time to make a new set, and not rely on the shop supplied stuff.
GoBack and System Restore as you say only work if your machine starts up.
Giok

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: Gurney
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 04:56 AM

Software, said the repairer. But they would, wouldn't they. It looks as if they formatted and reinstalled (only) what they were specifically asked to save, which was on the HD, so that must have been available. Lots of other stuff gone, so formatted rather than over-installed, right?
The boy swears he has deleted NOTHING since he got it. He needed XP because he is at Tech and incompatability was getting to be a problem.

Yes, it is legal, # and everything. None of my once expensive software runs on it.
He may have learned the lesson, because he has burned a CD of his Tech work. Don't know what format, though. Bet it's not ASCI. Saved but not useable on my computer, easily.
I know there's a thing called something like Go-Back on there, but without Help.....
Bloody .dll files, too.

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: treewind
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 05:36 AM

What Jon said.
Learn to use Linux.
Upgrade to the latest version any time, for free, for life.
Works for me.

Making you pay (even cheap) for Windows without a proper "install from scratch" CD is robbery.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 05:42 AM

This is why places like PC World can sell computers cheaply, they do a mass instal and only supply a back up disc with each computer. That way they just pay one licence fee to MS, and not multiples which would be the case if you were supplied with a full system installation disc for each computer.
Giok

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: Dave Earl
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 05:56 AM

I thought that if I wanted to install Windows onto a second machine I would need to purchase a copy for each machine.

Do suppliers have a "Blanket" licence to enable them to install the software on evry machine the sell?

Dave Earl

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 06:12 AM

A win home user is just for one machine as far as I know. Not convinced a suppler would have that "blanket" licence and if there is any decency towards customers, they should be given the CD. It is a certainty at some point they will need to re-install, or add an option not originaly installed, etc. at some point.

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: treewind
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 06:38 AM

A supplier doesn't have a blanket license at a fixed price, but they do get a very cheap price per installation if they pre-install Windows on every PC they sell. That cheap price tends to vanish like a soap bubble at the slightest hint of the supplier selling any PCs with another OS (or no OS) installed.

Most suppliers don't actually have an installation disk per customer. Often XP is pre-installed from an image, maybe over a network and I've heard of hard disks being supplied (to dealers only, of couse) with Windows pre-installed.

And yes: if you want to install Windows on a second machine you are expected to purchase a copy for each. Windows XP product activation is supposed to prevent you from using multiple installations from the same disk.

It's actually quite realistic to buy an OEM copy of Windows. You can buy it at OEM price in conjunction with a qualifying piece of hardware, which doesn't have to be a whole PC (e.g. hard drive or memory). Then you can always be sure of installing it from scratch, even if your HD fails one day (it will) or the power supply goes haywire and trashes the whole installation (can happen).

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: BanjoRay
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 06:49 AM

Question from a PC ignoramus - is it possible to reinstall Windows XP without losing all your files? There are various things now wrong with my PC that seem to be operating system changes that could possibly be cured by a total re-installation, so can it be done safely?
Ray

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 06:59 AM

If you bought a computer with WinXP installed, you are pretty much at the mercy of the computer builder as to what support is available. The OEM builder is responsible for all support of the "OEM Windows" supplied with a computer. An OEM builder pays a "per copy installed" fee to Microsoft, but it is a bit less than the price of a separate "retail version" for each machine. OEM builders are permitted to make modifications to the OS, and some do some pretty bizarre things to make the OS "compatible" with their own objectives.

It makes some difference what brand of computer it is, as different OEM makers provide different "flavors" of restore disks. Gateway, in one sad example I've encountered, supplied a clearly labelled "restore" disk, but it isn't the Windows restore disk. Another disk with some vague name that I don't recall is the one you have to boot from to reinstall Windows, and the "restore" disk is for "finishing Windows and installing all the other stuff." In the Gateway example, both disks were DVDs, and not CDs. This appears to be common now, but IMHO is questionable, as DVD drives are probably the first component likely to fail, leaving you with no way to repair anything else. CD drives have significantly better, although not perfect, reliability.

Unless there was an easily and clearly stated reason for it that your son should understand, anyone who advised "not to use the disks" probably was not "WinXP qualified" to be giving advice.

Most machines with preinstalled Windows come with more than one disk. The Windows XP install disk should be bootable but may have almost any kind of name on it. You may be forced to the procedure I used with the Gateway mentioned - put in a disk and see if the machine boots from it. When you find one that boots, it's probably the real WinXP reinstall disk.

WinXP should inform you of a missing .dll file and ask for the right disk to get it from if the service shop installed from the disks that came with the machine. If the .dll is required by some device or program that didn't come with the machine, you may need a disk (or a driver download) from whoever made the device or the program.

When WinXP is installed, you have the choice of whether to install help files, so the service person may have left them off. You probably can add them back, and also provide the ability for Windows to look for repair information like the missing .dll simply by going to:

1. Start | Settings | Control Panel
2. Double click on "Add or Remove Programs"
3. On the sidebar, there should be a place to click "Add/Remove Windows components." Click there.

This should give you a list of "Windows parts" you can check whether to include or omit from your Windows setup. If you click on one of the items, you can "expand" it, to make detailed choices about things like (sometimes) whether to include help files for the stuff in that part. YOU WILL NEED THE DISKS THAT CAME WITH THE MACHINE (or the ones your "service person" reinstalled from) in most cases for anything new to be added.

Unlike earlier versions like Win98, with WinXP it is ALMOST NEVER NECESSARY TO REFORMAT AND REINSTALL if WinXP "starts," since WinXP includes "fixits" that can be used for almost anything likely to happen. You do have to learn where they are, what they do, and how to make them work for you.

WinXP SP2 is, IMO, mandatory, and you may or may not have gotten it with your serviced reinstall; so that needs discussion later, perhaps.

John

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: Al
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 12:54 AM

OK, I'll bite. Where are the "fixits" and what do they do?
Al

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:55 AM

Al -

Sorry, but the way you find them is "RTFM."

There's a lot of stuff in the Help files, although frankly they are not as good as they should be. Most of the info is there, but some of it is disguised under layers of assumptions. My system indicates 185 separate Help files, most of which are Windows and/or standard Office product help sources. Of course you may have to decide which one to look in to find quick answers.

There's a lot of good stuff at the Microsoft website, in a half dozen support sites/pages but especially in what Mickeysoft calls the "Knowledge Base" (and there are several distinct on-site search engines for different kinds of users). The WinXP Help utility will take you directly to "web help" if you need it.

Web searches sometimes will turn up a lot, although you have to be careful about people who will tell you things they don't know, and who know more than they really know.

Reading a magazine or two doesn't hurt.

When you have a problem -
asking a specific question
about a specific problem
giving as much applicable detail as possible,
omitting as much ranting and raving as you can manage (at least until after you've described the problem),
and including the kind of machine, Operating System, and sometimes the browser you're using
- will often produce useful help from others.

I have never seen the statement in a request for help on the 'cat: "I looked for "xxx" in Help and didn't find ..."

John

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: Gurney
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 03:25 AM

Thank you, John. I should be able to cope now. If I'm given the chance. A little knowledge may be a dangerous thing, but operating without it is a worry.
The disk is OEM, so possibly the Help files weren't installed. I had to look up what OEM meant.

Jon and Treewind, I have considered Linux for my own computers, to the extent of a book and system from the library, but the boy needed compatability with his Technical College programs, and if he was struggling with W98SE, guess how he'd go with Linux.

I inherited the boy's PIV when he got WXP because he said it "was running hot...." Formatting fixed that and it is now my Web computer.   My own PIV is my business computer (no modem, no network. Been there.) I may put my old PII back together sometime and use that for the web, and try Linux on a PIV.
Anyone who wants it can collect my Amiga 600. From NZ.
Chris.

Subject: RE: Tech. Reinstalling Windows
From: JennyO
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 08:01 AM

If you do decide at some point to try Linux, I think you may be pleasantly surprised. I always thought of it as a techie's system, but since I've had my computer set up as a dual boot, I've hardly been near Windows. I've got the latest version of Ubuntu - Breezy Badger, and I'm very happy with it.

So the terminology is a bit different, but it's not hard. This from somebody who three years ago was just getting her first computer. I knew nothing then, and maybe a bit more now, but there's still a helluva lot I don't know.

Jenny