BS: Pentagon War on Peace Activists...

Subject: BS: Pentagon War on Peace Activists...
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 07:53 PM

Well, deja vu...

On tonight's ABC News there was report that the Pentagon is now investigating folks who are involved in protesting the Iraq War...

Hmmmmmmmm???...

I thought we learned a few things from Vietnam... Guess not...

Next thing it will be IRS audits of peace activists...

Ahhhhh, exactly how does this kind of activity lead the way as a role modle for any country using the US as a role model for democracy???...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Pentagon War on Peace Activists...
From: dianavan
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 08:05 PM

What do they expect to find?

Probably folks who do not think war is worth it.

Subject: RE: BS: Pentagon War on Peace Activists...
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 08:10 PM

Just pray, Bobert, that the news doesn't get out to our budding democracies... :(

It has occurred to me, as I'm sure it has to a number of people here, what one would do if one answered a knock on the door and two black suits were standing there, and if they cautioned one to cease and desist and went on to intimate that one doesn't want to talk about this visit, eh?

Just what would one hypothetical person do?

Subject: RE: BS: Pentagon War on Peace Activists...
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 08:23 PM

Yeah. Role models.

Bitching about what a garbage dump your neighbor's yard is tends to fall on deaf ears when he (and everybody else) can see piles of crap all over yours.

My drinkin' uncle (every kid needs a drinkin' uncle. He's the one who tells you the stuff you really need to know) used to say, "People are like strands of spaghetti. If you think they ought to move in a particular direction, you have to get out in front and lead 'em. If you try to push 'em, you just make a mess!"

I think my drinkin' uncle would make a pretty good president. At least his nose would be in the liquor cabinet, not poking its way into other people's business.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pentagon War on Peace Activists...
From: bobad
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 09:23 PM

You all better hope Max doesn't disclose his member's list when that knock on the door comes.

Subject: RE: BS: Pentagon War on Peace Activists...
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 12:43 AM

This is par for the course for Law and Order Republican platforms.
The neo McCarthy era has been in full swing for 6 years.
I assumed everyone noticed.

Subject: RE: BS: Pentagon War on Peace Activists...
From: freda underhill
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 06:32 AM

Published on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 by NBC News
Is the Pentagon Spying on Americans? Secret Database Obtained by NBC News Tracks 'Suspicious' Domestic Groups

by Lisa Myers, Douglas Pasternak, Rich Gardella and the NBC Investigative Unit

WASHINGTON - A year ago, at a Quaker Meeting House in Lake Worth, Fla., a small group of activists met to plan a protest of military recruiting at local high schools. What they didn't know was that their meeting had come to the attention of the U.S. military. A secret 400-page Defense Department document obtained by NBC News lists the Lake Worth meeting as a "threat" and one of more than 1,500 "suspicious incidents" across the country over a recent 10-month period. "This peaceful, educationally oriented group being a threat is incredible," says Evy Grachow, a member of the Florida group called The Truth Project. "This is incredible," adds group member Rich Hersh. "It's an example of paranoia by our government," he says. "We're not doing anything illegal."

The Defense Department document is the first inside look at how the U.S. military has stepped up intelligence collection inside this country since 9/11, which now includes the monitoring of peaceful anti-war and counter-military recruitment groups. "I think Americans should be concerned that the military, in fact, has reached too far," says NBC News military analyst Bill Arkin. The Department of Defense declined repeated requests by NBC News for an interview. A spokesman said that all domestic intelligence information is "properly collected" and involves "protection of Defense Department installations, interests and personnel." The military has always had a legitimate "force protection" mission inside the U.S. to protect its personnel and facilities from potential violence. But the Pentagon now collects domestic intelligence that goes beyond legitimate concerns about terrorism or protecting U.S. military installations, say critics.

Four dozen anti-war meetings
The DOD database obtained by NBC News includes nearly four dozen anti-war meetings or protests (.PDF link), including some that have taken place far from any military installation, post or recruitment center. One "incident" included in the database is a large anti-war protest at Hollywood and Vine in Los Angeles last March that included effigies of President Bush and anti-war protest banners. Another incident mentions a planned protest against military recruiters last December in Boston and a planned protest last April at McDonald's National Salute to America's Heroes — a military air and sea show in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. The Fort Lauderdale protest was deemed not to be a credible threat and a column in the database concludes: "US group exercising constitutional rights." Two-hundred and forty-three other incidents in the database were discounted because they had no connection to the Department of Defense — yet they all remained in the database.

The DOD has strict guidelines (.PDF link), adopted in December 1982, that limit the extent to which they can collect and retain information on U.S. citizens. Still, the DOD database includes at least 20 references to U.S. citizens or U.S. persons. Other documents obtained by NBC News show that the Defense Department is clearly increasing its domestic monitoring activities. One DOD briefing document stamped "secret" concludes: "[W]e have noted increased communication and encouragement between protest groups using the [I]nternet," but no "significant connection" between incidents, such as "reoccurring instigators at protests" or "vehicle descriptions." The increased monitoring disturbs some military observers.

"It means that they're actually collecting information about who's at those protests, the descriptions of vehicles at those protests," says Arkin. "On the domestic level, this is unprecedented," he says. "I think it's the beginning of enormous problems and enormous mischief for the military." Some former senior DOD intelligence officials share his concern. George Lotz, a 30-year career DOD official and former U.S. Air Force colonel, held the post of Assistant to the Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Oversight from 1998 until his retirement last May. Lotz, who recently began a consulting business to help train and educate intelligence agencies and improve oversight of their collection process, believes some of the information the DOD has been collecting is not justified.

Make sure they are not just going crazy
"Somebody needs to be monitoring to make sure they are just not going crazy and reporting things on U.S. citizens without any kind of reasoning or rationale," says Lotz. "I demonstrated with Martin Luther King in 1963 in Washington," he says, "and I certainly didn't want anybody putting my name on any kind of list. I wasn't any threat to the government," he adds. The military's penchant for collecting domestic intelligence is disturbing — but familiar — to Christopher Pyle, a former Army intelligence officer. "Some people never learn," he says. During the Vietnam War, Pyle blew the whistle on the Defense Department for monitoring and infiltrating anti-war and civil rights protests when he published an article in the Washington Monthly in January 1970.

The public was outraged and a lengthy congressional investigation followed that revealed that the military had conducted investigations on at least 100,000 American citizens. Pyle got more than 100 military agents to testify that they had been ordered to spy on U.S. citizens — many of them anti-war protestors and civil rights advocates. In the wake of the investigations, Pyle helped Congress write a law placing new limits on military spying inside the U.S.

But Pyle, now a professor at Mt. Holyoke College in Massachusetts, says some of the information in the database suggests the military may be dangerously close to repeating its past mistakes. "The documents tell me that military intelligence is back conducting investigations and maintaining records on civilian political activity. The military made promises that it would not do this again," he says.

Too much data?
Some Pentagon observers worry that in the effort to thwart the next 9/11, the U.S. military is now collecting too much data, both undermining its own analysis efforts by forcing analysts to wade through a mountain of rubble in order to obtain potentially key nuggets of intelligence and entangling U.S. citizens in the U.S. military's expanding and quiet collection of domestic threat data.

Two years ago, the Defense Department directed a little known agency, Counterintelligence Field Activity, or CIFA, to establish and "maintain a domestic law enforcement database that includes information related to potential terrorist threats directed against the Department of Defense." Then-Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz also established a new reporting mechanism known as a TALON or Threat and Local Observation Notice report. TALONs now provide "non-validated domestic threat information" from military units throughout the United States that are collected and retained in a CIFA database. The reports include details on potential surveillance of military bases, stolen vehicles, bomb threats and planned anti-war protests. In the program's first year, the agency received more than 5,000 TALON reports. The database obtained by NBC News is generated by Counterintelligence Field Activity.

CIFA is becoming the superpower of data mining within the U.S. national security community. Its "operational and analytical records" include "reports of investigation, collection reports, statements of individuals, affidavits, correspondence, and other documentation pertaining to investigative or analytical efforts" by the DOD and other U.S. government agencies to identify terrorist and other threats. Since March 2004, CIFA has awarded at least $33 million in contracts to corporate giants Lockheed Martin, Unisys Corporation, Computer Sciences Corporation and Northrop Grumman to develop databases that comb through classified and unclassified government data, commercial information and Internet chatter to help sniff out terrorists, saboteurs and spies.

One of the CIFA-funded database projects being developed by Northrop Grumman and dubbed "Person Search," is designed "to provide comprehensive information about people of interest." It will include the ability to search government as well as commercial databases. Another project, "The Insider Threat Initiative," intends to "develop systems able to detect, mitigate and investigate insider threats," as well as the ability to "identify and document normal and abnormal activities and 'behaviors,'" according to the Computer Sciences Corp. contract. A separate CIFA contract with a small Virginia-based defense contractor seeks to develop methods "to track and monitor activities of suspect individuals."

"The military has the right to protect its installations, and to protect its recruiting services," says Pyle. "It does not have the right to maintain extensive files on lawful protests of their recruiting activities, or of their base activities," he argues.

Lotz agrees.

"The harm in my view is that these people ought to be allowed to demonstrate, to hold a banner, to peacefully assemble whether they agree or disagree with the government's policies," the former DOD intelligence official says.

'Slippery slope'
Bert Tussing, director of Homeland Defense and Security Issues at the U.S. Army War College and a former Marine, says "there is very little that could justify the collection of domestic intelligence by the Unites States military. If we start going down this slippery slope it would be too easy to go back to a place we never want to see again," he says. Some of the targets of the U.S. military's recent collection efforts say they have already gone too far. "It's absolute paranoia — at the highest levels of our government," says Hersh of The Truth Project. "I mean, we're based here at the Quaker Meeting House," says Truth Project member Marie Zwicker, "and several of us are Quakers."

The Defense Department refused to comment on how it obtained information on the Lake Worth meeting or why it considers a dozen or so anti-war activists a "threat."

© MSNBC 2005

Subject: RE: BS: Pentagon War on Peace Activists...
From: kendall
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 07:44 AM

Ebbie, they had better have real good identification on them!

Subject: RE: BS: Pentagon War on Peace Activists...
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 12:19 PM

Last night's Nightly News had a segment on it. I'm getting interested in Brian Williams- I get the feeling that he is planning to become an activist, so to speak, in our national disorder.

I agree, Kendall. And I plan to ask to ask them for it! :)

bobad, quite the contrary- if it does start happening on a known scale, the more people who have the experience, the better.

Subject: RE: BS: Pentagon War on Peace Activists...
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 12:25 PM

Personally, i'm glad. You have no idea to what length fascist-drop bears will go to destroy our society. They've permeated teh highest levels of government already! They need to be stopped NOW!

Subject: RE: BS: Pentagon War on Peace Activists...
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 12:30 PM

Oh, the wonderful insight from such a deep thinker as rarelamb.

And history repeats itself:

Chad Mitchell Trio Lyrics - The John Birch Society Lyrics

by Michael Brown

Oh, we're meetin' at the courthouse at eight o'clock tonight
You just walk in the door and take the first turn to the right
Be careful when you get there, we hate to be bereft
But we're taking down the names of everybody turning left

Oh, we're the John Birch Society, the John Birch Society
Here to save our country from a communistic plot
Join the John Birch Society, help us fill the ranks
To get this movement started we need lots of tools and cranks

Now there's no one that we're certain the Kremlin doesn't touch
We think that Westbrook Pegler doth protest a bit too much
We only hail the hero from whom we got our name
We're not sure what he did but he's our hero just the same

Oh, we're the John Birch Society, the John Birch Society
Socialism is the ism dismalest of all
Join the John Birch Society, there's so much to do
Have you heard they're serving vodka at the WCTU?

Well you've heard about the agents that we've already named
Well MPA has agents that are flauntedly unashamed
We're after Rosie Clooney, we've gotten Pinkie Lee
And the day we get Red Skelton won't that be a victory

Oh we're the John Birch Society, the John Birch Society
Norman Vincent Peale may think he's kidding us along
But the John Birch Society knows he spilled the beans
He keeps on preaching brotherhood, but we know what he means

We'll teach you how to spot 'em in the cities or the sticks
For even Jasper Junction is just full of Bolsheviks
The CIA's subversive and so's the FCC
There's no one left but thee and we, and we're not sure of thee

Oh, we're the John Birch Society, the John Birch Society
Here to save our country from a communistic plot
Join the John Birch Society holding off the Reds
We'll use our hand and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads

Do you want Justice Warren for your Commissar?
Do you want Mrs. Krushchev in there with the DAR?
You cannot trust your neighbor or even next of kin
If mommie is a commie then you gotta turn her in

Oh, we're the John Birch Society, the John Birch Society
Fighting for the right to fight the right fight for the Right
Join the John Birch Society as we're marching on
And we'll all be glad to see you when we're meeting in the John
The John, the John Birch So- ci- i- teee

Subject: RE: BS: Pentagon War on Peace Activists...
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 12:42 PM

Hey you may not take drop bears seriously but if you care about our society you will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_Bear

"unusually large, vicious, carnivorous koalas that inhabit treetops and attack their prey by dropping onto their heads from above"

http://geocities.com/muirnin/db.htm

" I have gathered together scraps of information from sources all around the country, linking Drop Bear involvement to such events as the disappearance of Azaria Chamberlain, the death of Captain James Cook in Hawaii, several war-time incidents in northern Australia, the disappearance of a group of cross-country skiers in the Victorian Alps, and the deaths of a number of hikers, canoeists, 4WDrivers, campers, sunbathers and swimmers throughout the country. These 'accidents' are often reported as crocodile attacks, falls from cliffs, exposure, and in the Chamberlain case, dingoes were blamed. I have it on good authority in all of these cases, however, that a government cover-up was at work to dispel rumours of Drop Bear attacks and hide the truth from the public."

http://uncyclopedia.wikicities.com/wiki/Drop_Bear

"The 10% of Drop Bears that still reside in Australia are currently lobbying the government to bring their fellow Drop Bears back into the country, taking care to stay away from immigration officials. drop bears also have a top speed of 400km/h and will eat a human in 1 second, and also have offspring by using the human male as the mother, you do not want to be near a male drop bear in mating season!!!"


http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Koala

"Australian government exploited the local population of mescaline addicted koalas to harvest mescaline for the Vietnam War effort - in addition, a side project formed to create "super koalas", today known as Drop Bears. Since this project ended, koalas have been exploited by the Gypsy Jokers; where harvested mescaline is now sold on the black market as speed."

"SOME INTERESTING KOALA FACTS:

    * The attacks on the world trade centre towers on September the 11th, 2001 may have been organised and carried out by koalas. When the black box was collected from one of the crashed planes, a strange chattering was heard on the radio. This may have been a koala.

    * The leader of the Al-Quaeda terrorist group, which organized the September 11 attacks may not be Osama Bin Laden. Osama Bin Laden may just be the second in command of Al-Quaeda. The main leader of Al-Quaeda may actually be a koala. Some other members of Al-Quaeda may be koalas as well. In fact, some people suggest that Osama Bin Laden, as well as everyone else in Al-Quaeda, may be koalas.

    * Saddam Hussein, the dictator of Iraq may actually be the vice-dictator. The main dictator may actually be a koala. It is also said that Saddam and either many or all of the members of the Iraqi government and military may actually be koalas in disguise. This has been proven. When a US Marine Corps unit was fighting against a larger force of Iraqi soldiers, they heard a strange chattering from some of the men - which wasn't Iraqi language. It may have actually been koala language. Only one man of the unit of five Marines escaped alive. He said what had happened, but died in hospital a week after he came back alive.

    * President George W. Bush, one of the main people who is trying to stop the koala attacks may be a koala himself. So may a number of people from the US government and military. People from the British and Australian governments may also be koalas, including John Howard, the Prime Minister of Australia and Tony Blair, the Prime Minister of England.

    * Koalas may have planned and carried out the recent bombings of London underground train stations and buses. They may also be planning a large-scale attack on Washington.

    * Koalas may have incited the recent riots in France "

We can not ignore this threat any longer. WE must unite, not bicker amongst ourselves. The danger is too great.

Subject: RE: BS: Pentagon War on Peace Activists...
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 12:57 PM

Osama bin Koala- yes, it does have a certain ring to it. I think you are on to something, Guest rarelamb.

Subject: RE: BS: Pentagon War on Peace Activists...
From: InOBU
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 01:31 PM

Thanks for posting the NBC transcript... I was going to look for it for our Friend's ( Quaker ) Meeting's mailing list.

You know... we came here for... ah hell you all know the story.


Peace
Lor