BS: wine

Subject: BS: wine
From: jimmyt
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:01 PM

Since most other things have been covered here I just wanted to spend a bit of time discussing wine. 10 years ago I was an avid beer drinker. I couldn't stand the taste of wine. I thought chardonney tasted like rubbing alcohol that had soaked in sawdust for a couple years. Red wine was even more vile.

I have to admit I started enjoying wine with white zinfandel ( I know it is yuppie and girlish, but facts are facts.) Someone told me to try Rieslings which I enjoyed for a year or so greatly moving to drier and drier ones. I have since changed to Pinot Grigios, White Burgundy, CHardonney, many other different European wines that I continue to enjoy.( although I still think saugignon blanc tastes like cat pee) I have finally made the jump to red wine enjoying the Pinot Noirs the best and since suggested by my mudcat wine Guru, Emma B, the Burgundy (Pinot Noir)

I continue to be intrigued by wine, but it is a love-hate relationship because the people who get "into" wine seem to fall in two different camps (much like folk music I guess) the people who want to share information with you because it is just so neat what they have found a particular wine, a particular vintage a particular whatever. The other group are the wine snobs, which I find to be very tiresome and a royal pain in the ass. How someone can act like they are superior to anyone else just because they have a different taste or a different bit of information escapes me. I

find the same zeal amongst the cheese afficionados as the wine enthusiasts and that is also very neat. Our resident wine folks that I have learned a lot from are EMMA B, MICCA and Giok. I would be interested in what others have to say about this special subject.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Peace
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:17 PM

Muscatel. It's the best. Don't need a corkscrew. Or even a glass for that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:18 PM

I was partial to Cold Bear, Ripple, and Boone's Farm.

That was quite some time ago.

These days my tastes have changed. Now I'm into Bartles & James.


(Seriously, I have some very nice wines in my cupboard, from states that include Missouri, Virginia, Utah, Idaho, and Bordeaux.)

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Peace
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:19 PM

PS

It has a moderately fine nose and good legs. However, it stains rugs, shirts and walls. FYI.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: michaelr
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:20 PM

I live in the Wine Country of Northern California (Sonoma County, next to posher Napa County) and have been tasting lots of the local offerings for the last 20 years. It takes a while to develop the palate and appreciate the subtle differences between all the varietals, growing regions, and winemaking techniques.

While I enjoy a white now and then (mostly with seafood dinners), I'm big into cabernet and pinot noir, and an occasional zinfandel, syrah or merlot.

Trouble is, as the palate develops, it gets harder and harder to find affordable bottles I enjoy drinking. The good wines tend to be pricey, especially pinot noir. That said, I recommend Trader Joe's as a good source for low-priced but drinkable wines - you just have to taste a number of them and find out what you like.

...and the wine is liquid poetry. Robert Louis Stevenson

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:20 PM

I also have a rather large bottle of our family appellation, bottled a few years ago by my brother and the last (to date) of the family's oenelogical efforts: La Bonne Merde.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: jimmyt
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:21 PM

Bruce and Rap, you boys need to eat some cheetos with these selections to bring out the full potential.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Peace
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:22 PM

So's ya can talk about it. Muscatel is SO exclusive it isn't even mentioned.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Peace
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:24 PM

And use Screech to cleanse one's palate between gulps.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:26 PM

French wine in general is overpriced ! AND not up to the quality Price for Price , with most of the wines from the New World . Even some of the Californians are drinkable !

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: jimmyt
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:27 PM

MIchael, I agree and the good California wines are getting very pricye. I know the Cabs from Napa and Sonoma are pretty much unbeatable but I find the Willamette Valley Pinot NOirs especially Van Duzier Estates to be a darn good American Pinot Noir.

I also found an excellent Chardonney from North Carolina called Shelton Vinyards as well as possibly the best Riesling I have ever tasted from Michigan Grand Travers Chataux where they use the entire grape pod and it is quite outstanding.

My prediction is that in the next few years we will all be seeing the NOrth Carolina wines giving the NApa and Sonoma wines some honest competition. THey have a very favorable climate for making some excellent wine up in Wester North Carolina.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: jimmyt
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:29 PM

Terry I have had some English wine on BA flights to London and I can honestly say they are wet.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: jimmyt
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:30 PM

why did I start this subject when the only ones lurking about in the dark alleys are the juvenile delinquents?

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Peace
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:30 PM

For those of you really into wine, for real, here's a neat site.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:38 PM

Cabin Fever! Hazlitt's winery in NY. A lovely, fruity blush.

Wine-- I'm for it, in moderation and when it improves good food and/or good....

Anyway, I'm for it!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: jimmyt
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:45 PM

exactly Wysiwig, I enjoy it way more than I have ever enjoyed other alcoholic drinks but it is not pleasent to have too much as it really gives you a hangover. I find that even one beer now makes me feel unpleasently full. A glass or 2 of wine though is so delightful

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:46 PM

I've drunk -- and even enjoyed! -- English wines.

One of my favorites is a nice Green Hungarian (wine). Idaho wines are quite nice, and -- get this! -- they are even making VODKA in Idaho! Moreover, it's pretty good vodka.

To creep the thread even more, a boutique distillery is scheduled to open next year in...Salt Lake City, Utah.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: jimmyt
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:49 PM

I have no doubt that Idaho should be able to make a helluva vodka

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:50 PM

But still , for an entire evening , especially involving Music , a decent beer takes a lot of beating !

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: jimmyt
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:50 PM

Speaking of Hungarian wine, (well this is a creep because it is not HJungary but Croatia) we were staying in an Agrotursmo in Croatia and the folks went to their cellar, brou8ght out a bottle that they had made from their own grapes and it was nothing short of outstanding!

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: jimmyt
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:51 PM

You are right, Terry! It just seems right!

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 09:39 PM

I came upon wines rather late, only about 35 years ago. Haven't had even one beer for 4 or 5 years. Like JimmyT, I gradually discovered that dry red wines are much tastier than the sweeter ones. Which is why, I suppose, that I rarely have a white wine. Is there such a thing as a dry white? Or rose- I've had White Zinfandel, kind of by accident, and I suspect that comes under the heading of a rose. As JimmyT said, it was wet. And flavored.

I don't care much for burgundy and I'm not sure why. It doesn't seem to have the 'bottom' or the 'heft' that a Cabernet Sauvignon has so generally I stick to the Cab. Or sometimes Merlot. (I've even had them blended together. But recently I had a Cabernet/Merlot blend and I didn't care for it at all. It seemed neither fish nor fowl, so to speak.) Shiraz to me seems a little rawer, a little sharper, not as silky.

Have you ever had the experience in a restaurant of having a glass or two of a wine you enjoyed and suddenly discovered with the next glass that they had brought a different kind? Unmistakable. I don't know if it was only because it was a newly opened bottle, as they claimed, or if it was a different wine altogether, as I thought. And think.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: LilyFestre
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 09:40 PM

I live near the Finger Lakes Region of NY State and because of this, I have had the opportunity to go on wine tasting adventures with some of my friends. The first time I went I thought it was going to be a very boring and snobbish affair but (quite happily) I was mistaken. I am relatively new to the world of wine but I've been told that the best wines in the world are the ones that you like! :) Here are some of my favorites...all from New York Finger Lakes region:

Fulkersons: Matinee and Red Zepplin
Hazlitts: Red Cat
Leidenfrost: Log Cabin White
Bellwether Hard Cider Company: Cherry Street (*one of my favorites*)
Red Newt: Red Newt White

And last but far from least, my absolute favorite winery and wines are from Bagleys/Poplar Ridge: Queen of Diamonds, One Eyed Cat and Cayuga White.

These wines, with the exception of Bellwether Hard Cider Company, are located along the sides of Seneca Lake. We seem to like these the best. I highly, HIGHLY recommend a visit to Bagley's/Poplar Ridge in Homer, NY for an unpretensious, wonderful time. The last time my husband and I stopped in, the owner was on hand to chat with, a fire was going in the woodstove, a pot of gumbo was simmering on top and 2 chocolate labs were napping nearby. The owner, dressed in a flannel shirt and overalls invited us to help ourselves to the gumbo. We had a wonderful afternoon overlooking the snowy vineyard and lake enjoying some amazing wines and the best gumbo I've ever had in my life! It's not a fancy place but you'll not find a better bottle of wine in the area!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: jimmyt
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 09:49 PM

nice story Michelle!

Ebbie I know what you are saying about the Burgundies but I think the good ones are positively divine. THe WIllamet Valley Pinot Noirs may be the best in AMerica

Yes, you can find very very dry white wines. not tannic, but dry as a bone

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: freightdawg
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 10:49 PM

While it might be surprising to some, the ol' 'dawg has a mighty fine sense of taste. I prefer the blush wines, the ones best served chilled. I also like the taste of a good merlot with some prime rib. There are some award winning vineyards in west Texas, and even some in New Mexico as well - amazing but true. Another drink that is wonderful with a plate of zesty New Mexican chile is Sangria, a very fruity drink that (I suppose) could be considered a wine, although I am pretty sure it is a blend of some kind. (Okay, I have good taste, but I am clearly not an expert!)

Just make sure all imbibing is done in moderation. Drunks are killing innocent drivers and passengers at a nauseating rate here in NM. No one has the right to a good time if it involves the ending of another life.

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: number 6
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 10:55 PM

White Graves from the Bordeaux region is my favourite. There used to be a label called Johnson Graves but it appears not to be found anymore ... shame, as it was an excellent wine.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 11:04 PM

I agree about avoiding the snob factor. I once had a snobbish French wine that was oh-so-highly praised by a "connoisseur", and it tasted like I was sucking on the tailpipe of a bus. The word I would use to describe that wine is "trashy". (This is not an indictment of French wines generally, just that particular one.)

My favorite wines are the ones with interesting combinations of taste, aftertaste, and feeling on the tongue (astringency, etc.), and no missing notes. I imagine there's technical words for what I just described, but I don't know what they are.

One thing I have learned about the kinds of wines I like though. I find that they taste much better at room temperature than chilled (with the exception of sparkling wines).

I used to wonder about the kinds of words people used to describe wines before I started enjoying them at room temperature. They used to sound pretentious to me. Now I find myself using descriptive phrases that surprise me. For instance, I recently tried a Malbec Rose (organic), from Argentina (about $8.00 for 750 ml). It's pretty bland and not very interesting cold, but at room temperature it has a lot of character and, I find, even a sense of humor. It's not particularly sweet, just the tiniest little bit of sweetness, but it feels very playful on the tongue. It's a bit astringent, with a little touch of tartness, just enough bite to make it interesting, and a little bit of burn in the aftertaste. The flavor's very difficult to describe. A little smokier than I would expect from a rose, it's fairly well layered with no missing notes, and it would go well with creamy cheeses and slightly sweet breads.

See what I mean? I can't believe I just said all of that, but it's true.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 03:20 AM

Carol, I know exactly what you mean. I think that in the process of trying to describe something so elusive, phrases like that just pop out. Has nothing to do with 'snobbery', has everything to do with honesty.

'Roundness' is another phrase that comes to my mind in connection with some wines- it goes along with full bodiedness, I suppose, but it's more like saying there is nothing lacking.


JimmyT, the Willamette Valley is my home region. About the first vineyard that was planted there was at Amity, my hometowm. (I always say that McMinnville is my hometown but that's only because Mac is bigger and only 7 miles away.) Lots of vineyards in the area now.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 03:46 AM

I have a weird way of finding good wines. I look for a pretty label or one that makes me smile. That way I discoverd the Primativo with the little green devil on the label before Sainsbury's featured it and it shot up in price... It is a wonderful wine and very smooth.

I also found 'Fat Bastard' chardonnay that way, which was so amusing I kept the bottle - the contents were very amusing too, made I laugh for ages til I fell off the chair.

I bought a red wine in Calais because the bottle is a strange shape. Turns out that the wine is a strange shape too, but very tasty. It's now available here, in the same strange shape bottle. I've got the perfect glass for drinking it from - that's a strange shape too.

I was recently introduced to a Spanish red called 'Baltazar' which is very VERY good but I'm unlikely to find it in Tescos.....

Basically, if you like the taste, it's a good bottle. If it makes your mouth/eyes/arse pucker or takes the enamel off your teeth, don't drink it regardless of what others tell you. It's your tastebuds that are being excercised, they have rights too!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 05:08 AM

"I find that they taste much better at room temperature than chilled "

Well, that's how they were originally supposed to be served - at European room temperature - about 20-25 deg C. You only need to chill a bad wine, cause if the taste is lousy, it helps kill the taste.


God knows how wines made outside Europ are supposed to be served...

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 06:40 AM

YES PLEASE. KEEP IT COMING!

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Emma B
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 07:34 AM

a few of my favourite quotations :-

"From wine what sudden friendship springs"
John Gay "The Squire and his Cat"

"Wine makes old wives wenches"
John Clarke 17th century

Drink wine in Winter for cold, and in Summer for heat
- old proverb

It is well to remember that there are five reasons for drinking:
the arrival of a friend; one's present or future thirst; the excellence of the wine; or any other reason.
- Latin saying

Good wine ruins the purse; bad wine ruins the stomach.
- Spanish proverb

The best use of bad wine is to drive away unwanted relations
- French proverb

"Burgundy was the winiest wine, the central, essential, and typical wine, the sould and greatest common measure of all the kindly wines of the earth."
Charles Edward Montague
"Judith"

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 07:42 AM

Believe it or not, my doctor said a glass of red wine every night is beneficial, cholesterol wise. I like Sangria but being on low carbs, I cannot have any sweet wine so I drink Burgundy mixed with Fresca.

It certainly makes one mellow out after a stressful day and my cholestrol is 161 and going down.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 08:12 AM

My sangria recipe:

1/3 part port or sherry
1/3 part red wine
1/3 part lemonade or orange juice, or a mix of the two

add 2 cans John West strawberries

make heaps, (3 or 4 jugs) and as the evening goes on, top them up with lemonade..

yum.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Micca
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 08:15 AM

as was once said about a certain lady of my acquaintance "in Vino, Veri-tasty"

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: JennyO
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 08:42 AM

Ah yes. I can recommend freda's sangria!!

By the way, nobody has mentioned Australian wines. The wines from the Hunter Valley and South Australia in particular are as good or better than you would get anywhere - and very reasonably priced. Jamiesons Run Coonawarra is lovely. I am a red wine person mainly - love a good Cab Sav or a Shiraz, but also like a good Chardonnay, and we make 'em very tasty in this neck of the woods!

They are so good that my brother in Paris always asks me to bring a couple of bottles of the better reds with me when I visit. There was an Eileen Hardy I took last time that was BEEEE-UTIFULLL!

Do I dare add The Wine Song here? I'll think on it over some of the Shiraz I took home from freda's a couple of nights ago.....

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: jeffp
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 09:16 AM

I can second the recommendation for Australian wines, Monty Python notwithstanding. I'm also surprised that nobody has mentioned Oregon wines. Could it be the best-kept secret in the wine world?

Oh jeez, now I've gone and let the cat out of the bag. Now the prices will go up and I won't be able to afford the stuff any more.

mutter mutter, grumble grumble

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 09:23 AM

If all be true that I do think
There are five reasons why we drink:
Good food, good wine, or being dry,
Or lest we should be, by and by,
Or any other reason why.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 09:30 AM

There are many good reasons for drinking
And another just entered my head
If a fellow cant drink while he's living
How the Hell can he drink when he's dead

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 09:38 AM

I avoid red wines that have won prizes - I know I won't like them because the judges generally give gold medals to oaked wine. Wine makers who know this then oak their best wines in the hope of winning prizes. It seems to be a vicious circle.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: RangerSteve
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 09:53 AM

I'm partial to wines from places that aren't usually known for wines. There are a lot of good wineries in the Delaware Valley area in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. My favorite is the Four Sisters Winery in Belvedere, Warren County, NJ. Their Niagara is wonderful. Their cherry wine is not bad either and the port is great. There's a place in South Jersey called Tomasello Winery that makes a great cranberry wine, too.

As far as memorable labels go, however, I nominate Frontier Red, from the Fess Parker Winery in CA. It has a picture of Fess dressed up in his Davy Crockett outfit on the label, looking very noble. The wine wasn't bad either.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: GUEST,Charmion at work
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 10:00 AM

Ontario wine is darned good, too. Ontario used to be noted for porch-climber swill that an ethical cook wouldn't even put into the gravy, but during the 1970s the province was invaded by a bunch of Middle European winemakers who transformed the industry.

Inniskillin, the first Ontario producer of drinkable wine, began making "late harvest" wines (Spaetlese) and icewine (Eiswein) in the mid-1980s, and now we have a real "wine region" down there in the Niagara peninsula and a whole whack of seriously good producers. British Columbia also turns out truly excellent stuff.

Now you can stick entirely to Canadian wines and drink far too well from one end of the year to the other.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Peace
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 10:13 AM

Beware any wine that is 'fortified'. Once had some St Geroge's. That was the name of it. Just St George's--it didn't say St George's WHAT. A fortified wine that was available in Quebec. In those days a gallon (160 oz) went for about $1.55. Stuff damned near killed six or seven musicians. Gave one of 'em the shakes for two days. The rest of us got off with a day and a half. We found out how he slew the dragon.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: number 6
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 10:21 AM

Geeez Peace .... sounds like this hooch was made in a still out in the back woods somewhere. Bad stuff.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Peace
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 10:23 AM

It was OK considerin' what else we had with it. Using alcool as a mix may have set the stuff off.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: JennyO
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 10:29 AM

Well, I know I've posted this before - more than once - but still, it really belongs here on this thread, so I will. It's a funny song, but it doesn't actually reflect the reason why I drink wine. I drink it for the taste. I don't enjoy the feeling of being really drunk, and it doesn't help that I seem to get the hangover on the same day. Besides, I have to drive. Anyway, for what it's worth...


THE WINE SONG

by Grant Baynham   

There are those who like their wine
Because it adds sophistication
To that hearty meal they're serving to their friends.
And there are those who like their wine
Because it helps in the creation
Of that party feel on which so much depends.
And there are those who'd like their wine
To come from eastward-facing chateaux
On the plateaux of Lorraine and all that bunk
But their motives are not mine
And I like lots and lots of wine
And I like it 'cos it makes me drunk.

There are those who take a glass
Because it helps them to relax
They find it helps their social manner to improve
Well, that's a jolly useful scheme
Which I have taken to its logical extreme:
I sometimes get so well-relaxed I can't move
And there's another kind of fellow
Drinks champagne to make him mellow
And he swears by Cliquot, Bollinger and Brut
Well, I tried some Brut meself
I found it on the bathroom shelf
And he was right: it got me mellow as a newt.

You can judge your wine by the quality of the vine,
Its colour and bouquet and all that junk.
But it all comes back to the falling over factor
And the fact that it gets you drunk.

There are those who like to think
That it's important what you drink
They haven't got an inkling what it's all about
They spend their evenings wasting
Decent drinking time by tasting
Drops of this and that, then spitting it all out.
They pass along the tables
Strewth, they even read the labels
Muttering things like, "What a shame
The cork has shrunk"
Or "fruity nose" or "too much tannin"
When they ought to get a man in
Who appreciates the chance to get drunk.


They waste their time describing
What they ought to be imbibing
Which is wine of course, although you'd never think it.
'Cos they use words like "young but promising, "
"Precocious," "full of fun";
You'd think they were going to adopt the stuff
Not drink it.
And at a meal these silly asses
Have a row of empty glasses
A different wine with every dish they eat.
Me, I mix whatever's handy
In a stiff, all-purpose shandy
Which goes very nice with fish or Shredded Wheat.

You can judge your wine by the quality of the vine
Its colour and bouquet and all that junk
But it all comes back to the falling over factor
And the fact that it gets you drunk

And there are those who take delight
Pronouncing all the labels right
They roll their r's and do those German glottals.
Me, I couldn't give a monkey's
'Cos the stuff for getting drunk is
On the inside not the outside of the bottles
So if you have a cheese and wine
Invite your friendly Philistine
Call me drunkard, call me sot
Or call me wino. What do I know?
You'll find me in the kitchen
I'll be giggerlin' and twitchin'
Having a sup and throwing up
Across your lino

You can judge your wine by the quality of the vine
Its colour and bouquet, if you insist.
But it all comes back to the falling over factor
And the fact that it gets you
Misty-eyed and mellow, gets you
Maudlin, mawkish, miserable and PISSED!

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: jimmyt
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 10:49 AM

jeffp, I mentioned the WIllamette Valley Pinot Noir. That is an Oregon wine. Their Pinot Gris is also excellent. Washington state has some excellent wine also.

CarolC   Terrific discriptive writing. Forever now I will remember notes missing in wine. It is a perefect way of describing.

Emma, Great quotes!

I also love many of the AUstralian and New Zealand wined. The NEw Zealand people have also pioneered the screw cap on the Riesling which seems to work well for wine that will be drunk in a year or so.

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 11:04 AM

Last week on the Diane Rehm show she interviewed Robert Parker and he has a lot of good information about wines. You can listen to it via streaming audio.

It was through listening to a few programs like this that got me interested in trying different wines. I used to have a bottle of something red or white in the door of the fridge forever and occasionally tip some into some dish I was cooking, but have since learned a couple of things. Once you open a bottle, you should use it within about a week. Don't buy the larger bottle to save money if it isn't going to be consumed in that time because as it gets older it doesn't taste as good.

I have sampled various types of wines over the last few years, and partly out of stubborn irritation at the Bush administration's rejection of things French (remember that?) I started exploring French wines and have expanded my search to the continent.

A friend of mine is from the Netherlands, and while bemoaning the lack of 'papers' on California and other American wines, explained that many European wines have credentials guaranteeing that their grapes come from the specific place they claim. The French version of this is "Appellation Contrôlée." You'll see this on good French, German, Spanish, and Italian wines at least (my area of inquiry so far). There are wines from those countries that don't make that claim, thus you don't know where their grapes come from and you can make assumptions (accurate or not) about the production of that wine.

You can get very nice table wines in the $5 to $10 range. Many are a pure play with a single type of grape, others are blended from several local grapes. For example, there is a nice little French wine in a bottle with a screw cap (and they're all going to go that direction soon--their bottles pre-2003 still have corks) is called La Vieille Ferme that is a blend of three grapes from that particular area (I don't have a label handy to tell you which and where). Others are a single type of grape and they're grown in the valley they claim. Each year's grapes are going to be a little different, but the overall character of the wine is going to be similar because of the local and elements that go into it.

I love some of the German white wines, and prefer the bit drier "Kabinett" versus some of the sweeter ones. First time I had one of these with some grilled Copper River salmon it knocked my socks off, and I'm convinced that wine can really torque up the quality and enjoyment of an already good meal. For the red wines I tend to go to the French and Italian and Spanish, though I'm sure they also have good white wines.

I can't afford expensive wines, but that doesn't mean I must drink the fortified junk that is corralled in the wino corner of the liquor store. Read the lables, make note of the wines (and years) you like and come back to them a couple of times before adding them to your list of favorite wines.

I hope this helps!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: Peace
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 11:17 AM

What is a fortified wine?........

Port, Sherry, Madeira, Malaga, Tokay, Frontignan and Frontignac are all fortified wines. They also happen to be place names in Europe or names for wines from specific locations there so many of these names can't be used to describe an Australian made product. Muscat is the one exception and refers to the name of the grape it's made from. The muscat family of grapes includes Orange Muscat, Muscat Canelli and Muscat de Frontignan.

from

www.uncork.com.au/tidbits6.htm

Subject: RE: BS: wine
From: jeffp
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 11:19 AM

jimmyt,I must have missed that. The Willamette Valley Pinot Noir is indeed excellent. That is one of the brands I can get at our local (crawling distance) liquor store. I'll try anything from Oregon, except Chardonnay. Can't stand Chardonnay, no matter who makes it.