BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: GUEST,clogger
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 06:17 AM

Ok. Let's turn this one around .... are there any American inventions Hijacked by others? Or even other "inventions" claimed by bogus inventees of any nationality

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 08:35 AM

Guglielmo Marconi was born at Bologna, Italy, on April 25, 1874, the second son of Giuseppe Marconi, an Italian country gentleman, and Annie Jameson, daughter of Andrew Jameson of Daphne Castle in the County Wexford, Ireland.

From Nobel Lectures, Physics 1901-1921, Elsevier Publishing Company, Amsterdam, 1967

" Football may have been inspired by the Aboriginal jumping/kicking game of Marn Grook" - Football has been played in England for centuries but hadn't been codified until the 19th Century - it's more likely that the rules were based on kickabout versions of the game.

Vegemite is but a pale shadow of MArmite invented in 1902.

1869: Britain grants unmarried women who are householders the right to vote in local elections. http://womenshistory.about.com/od/suffrage/a/intl_timeline.htm
And, to be even-handed, from the same site:
1776: New Jersey gives the vote to women owning more than $250. Later the state reconsidered and women were no longer allowed to vote. (more)

1837: Kentucky gives some women suffrage in school elections. (source)

1861: Kansas enters the Union; the new state gives its women the right to vote in local school elections.

1869: Wyoming territory constitution grants women the right to vote and to hold public office. (more more)

1870: Utah territory gives full suffrage to women. (more)

1893: The male electorate in Colorado votes "yes" on woman suffrage. (more more)

1894: Some cities in Kentucky and Ohio give women the vote in school board elections. (more)

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: Shields Folk
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 04:15 PM

Joseph Swann invented the light bulb everyone knows that

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 11:15 PM

charles babbage's analytical engine was never built as the technology
to make the precision gears and clockwork didnt exist at the time.
But theoretically it fit the definition of a computer which had memory
and was able to execute program instructions.
In fact you could say the first programmer was his girlfriend Ada Lovelace (Byrons daughter) who came up with the idea of using loops as part of program instructions.

supposedly the British Collossus computer which was used in Bletchley park for codebreaking predated the American computers the Mark 1 and Eniac.

basketball was invented in Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 02:03 AM

I believe the analytical engine was built a few years ago, but obviously not by Babbage as he was dead. The Victorians didn't have the precision required.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 05:35 AM

Wasn't New Zealand the first country to grant women universal suffrage?

The lagerphone is hardly an invention just a badly made version of the Central European "devil's fiddle".

Seems strange that refigeration was invented after the refrigerator!

Didn't the original juggernaught (or similar) have differential gears hundreds (if not thousands) of years ago?

It's not surprising really that Aussie Rules Football was invented in Australia.

I could go on but I'm bored now

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 12:32 PM

I would much prefer having people celebrate people's achievements. And while applauding the good they have accomplished recognize the harmful uses to which many of these things have been put.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 08:40 PM

From: GUEST,clogger - PM
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 12:22 PM

Please! I did say Rocket ENGINE!(German)
As far as I am concerned rockets are a type of firework (Chineese)
GUNPOWDER (English)however is a totaly diferent thing!
HAPPY 2006 ... Have a good one!

Sorry to spoil your argument Clogger, but the Chinese used gunpowder to make those fireworks lomg before there was an England....Fact.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 08:50 PM

BTW, as evidence that England was not the home of the inventor, the first person shot with a firearm, was at the battle of Agincourt, and if memory serves the guy on the back end of that was French.

The English won that battle with their vastly superior longbows.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: Arnie
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 10:23 AM

I'm sure I read somewhere that the first powered flight took place in Yorkshire - and I'm not just saying that because of my Tyke roots. Must look into this a bit further....

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: danensis
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 11:31 AM

Yes as I recall the hooray henry who paid for the kite was so nervous that he ordered one of his lackeys to actually fly the thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: danensis
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 12:18 PM

Here we are:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3042182.stm

"In 1853, Sir George's coachman was ordered to take to the skies at Brompton-by-Sawdon, near Scarborough.

After his alarming experience of air travel, a shocked John Appleby faced his employer.

"Please, Sir George, I wish to give notice," he said. "I was hired to drive and not to fly."

The servant may not have appreciated it, but he had just made history by completing the first manned flight in a fixed-wing aircraft".

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: Les from Hull
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 12:42 PM

Guns were first used in 1346 at Crecy - by the English. They were first mentioned in 1327.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: GUEST,clogger
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 02:12 PM

Don T ..... The powder that the chineese used for their fireworks was not Gun Powder but a very similar mixture developed as a longivity drug. They did not have the knowledge to refine Saltpetre.
Apparently the best Saltpetre was derived from the urine of a Bishop!
Gunpowder is saltpetre,charcoal and sulpher.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 03:05 PM

of course the chinese invented gunpowder..
it is also odd that the european appearance of gunpowder would be exactly the right mixture of saltpetre, charcoal and sulphur
that the chinese were using. I will say that the Europeans were more successful in making guns.

(the chinese got saltpetre by collecting pigs urine and drying it)

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 11:28 AM

Thank you Petr, you saved me having to argue that one.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 02:19 AM

Although it's not really indexed and systematic enough for research, those interested in history and invention might find some value in glancing at
I seem to recall an earlier issue - many months ago - that documented the chicken farmer who built the first "computer linkup" that allowed him to report his monthly expenses direct to the corporate computer (without permission, initially, from corporate management). Little things along with the big.

Do other nations/regions/locales have anything similar? - Especially web accessible?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: autolycus
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 05:35 AM

Interesting how this discussion has gone.
There is something appealing about lists by nationality and about misattribution. I agree that what's more important is who made the discovery than their nationality.
What's been missing for me are the sources of the information, otherwise anyone can assert anything, a real weakness on the net(and not just the net).
I haven't given myself the time to consult my books of firsts, of inventions, chronologies, dictionaries of dates.
Just one correction. That "shoulders of giants" quotation. It is in a letter of Newton's. And a 12th century writer said Bernard of Chartres(died c.1130) used to say it. However Burton in his Anatomy of Melancholy quoted Lucan (39-65 A.D.)saying that one Didacus Stella, a Roman general (fl.50 B.C.E.) said "Pigmies placed on the shoulders of giants see more than the giants themselves"(The Latin is given in Burton Stevenson's Book of Quotations), and Didacus is also fingered in Bartlett's 14th.

As Michael Caine might still say,"Not a lot of people know that", apparently including Lord Melvyn Barg.
And as Karl Popper would say,Science doesn't prove anything - what we "know" is just whatever has not yet been disproved.

Happy Hannukah and Happy New Year.

Autolycos

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 08:45 AM

When I clicked to preview my last "post" above, I got a locked up browser, and assumed I'd lost my connection. Going back to the main page I couldn't get anything to load, so I assumed that the 'cat was doing maintenance – or was very busy.

I now see that my "preview" turned into a post that badly needed a preview. What it was supposed to say was:

Although it's not really indexed and systematic enough for research, those interested in history and invention might find some value in glancing at American Heritage of Invention and Technology. I've found them apparently credible with respect to giving credit to precursors, and they do come up with some pretty strange stuff. The current issue features the special effects for the 1933 King Kong movie, along with the history of the "flexible sipping straw."

I seem to recall an earlier issue - many months ago - that documented the chicken farmer who built the first "computer linkup" that allowed him to report his monthly expenses direct to the corporate computer (without permission, initially, from corporate management). Little things along with the big.

Do other nations/regions/locales have anything similar? - Especially web accessible?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 12:51 PM

Don't you know, anything with a dramatic enough story was invented by an American, preferably a photogenic one.

Or at least that's what Hollywood says....

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: GUEST,Clogger
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 07:13 PM

Information about English gunpowder came from "New Scientist", in the last 2 months but unable to put my hand on the issue right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Jan 06 - 01:56 AM

Clogger:

Reason i said you was a troll was because of your obvious predilection to write without checking. Return to the subject of first liquid fuel rocket and if you bother to actually research it you will find that the first liquid fueled rocket was launched on a farm in Massachusetts in 1926 before Herr Von Braun ("when rockets go up who cares where they come down, that's not my department") even took up rocketry well aware of the work of Robert Goddard.

As for solid fuel rockets, they date back to those gunpowder inventors, the Chinese.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: Skivee
Date: 10 Jan 06 - 01:20 PM

My 2 cents...plus some.
Von Braun did not invent the liquid fuel rocket engine.
This was invented by Robert Hutchins Goddard, an American scientist, in the 20s.
He started with a crude alcohol and liquid oxygen rocket with a strange design. The exhaust nozzle was at the top!
This allowed the lower fuel tanks to act as a crude inertial stabilization system, with the weight of the lower section hanging under the thrust source.
He later developed liquid fuel rockets with the thrust chamber at the lower section, gyro stabilization, and vectoring thrust with vanes deflecting the exhaust as needed to correct direction.

Von Braun and his friends started a research club that was primarily interested in advancing rocketry. Much of their work was based directly on Goddards work; both Von Braun and Wiley Ley said exactly that in numerous writings. If pressed I can provide documentation.
VB and company used RHG's research as a starting point to develop larger more practicle vehicles; first for scientific interest, then for military uses.
I have seen films from both early Goddard experiments and the Germans.
Goddard was first...but if he hadn't, someone else would have.
They both had rockets that failed on the pad, blew up, went unstable.
They both had early liquid fuel rocket that went thousands of feet into the sky.
They both turned towards military applications as the Second World War approached. They both were annoyed that their efforts were repeatedly ignored by their governments.
Goddard invented the bazooka.
Von Braun made the V-2s arc to England.
The power of Urban Legendry not withstanding, Sir George's was not likely the first manned flying. Look to the Chinese with their huge kites for that honor. His claim is one of many loosely documented events that propose to knock the Wrights off their pedestal.
What the Wright's did was to combine carefully researched wing shapes, a superb engine for power, a workable control system. Their lab work is well documented.
\ A goodly amount of their work was inspired by early German glider builders.
All of these craft were barely controllable. Dozens of would-be pilots died in many countries.
Two more items: For a slightly cockeyed look at the world of early winged aircraft in England, one might do well to watch the film, "Those Magnificent Men In Their Flying Machines". If you strip away the lame plot, it gives a strange view of the events that occurred at Brooklands in Weybridge.
If you know when to look, you can see the banked track of the Brooklands racecourse in the background of incidental shots behind the hangers sheds.
The Benny Hill character, "The Fire Chief", was REAL.
Fairey, Avro, Vickers, Hawker, Sopwith and many other great names in British aviation development made great strides after their dips into the nourishing waters of Brookland's sewage pond.
Lastly, NO-ONE SHOULD EVER LEARN HISTORY FROM HOLLYWOOD.
A single viewing of "Pearl Harbor" should be all one needs to convince one of this truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: GUEST,Clogger
Date: 10 Jan 06 - 02:47 PM

Apologies! It would appear that I am wrong about the Rocket engine!
I am now a humbler and wiser person for it ....... thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: Skivee
Date: 10 Jan 06 - 07:49 PM

And I apologize for the double post!
After I hit the "submit message" button, the dreaded "site not communicating" page showed up.
I reposted hours later and didn't check.
It must have been an error in the part of the internet that All- American Al Gore invented.
(Al's my man, but i had to go there.)

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Jan 06 - 06:38 AM

Not to mention repeating the content of my post. This information is well known to every American teen interested in science and readily retrievable on the web from someone interested in marshaling facts and not soliciting rancor.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: Skivee
Date: 11 Jan 06 - 11:36 AM

Well, it looks like I'm just Mr. Apology today.
Robomatic, I didn't see your post before posting my info.
I seem to be missing posts for some reason.
But at least we can both take some satisfaction in the mutual support.
...And now more folks know what the "H" stood for.
Cheers

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 06 - 03:11 PM

poo

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: NH Dave
Date: 13 Jan 06 - 12:49 AM

I'm going to disagree with a couple of the famous Aussi inventions listed above. I don't know if staysharp is a trade name or just the generic term for a knife that doesn't require sharpening, but the latter was developed in the late 50's - early 60's by a pair of scientists or engineers from Dartmouth College, who had done a lot of work with plasma torches in the mid 50's.   They'd knocked up a bunch of kitchen knives with a thin coating of tungsten carbide sprayed onto one side of the blade of a cheap kitchen knife, as a souvenir of a visit to their plant. As the blade wore, the thin tungsten carbide layer became the cutting edge. The second was the multiple focus contact, if I understood the concept correctly. These were available in the UK back in the early 70's, so could not have been invented by the Aussies in '92.

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Jan 06 - 04:41 AM

1924 Car radio - The first car radio was fitted to an Australian car built by Kellys Motors in New South Wales.

???

William Lear formed the Quincy Radio Laboratory in 1922, in part to produce his automobile radio, based on prototypes (practical and working) that he already had produced and sold in limited numbers. Unable to produce it himself in quantities sufficent for mass marketing, he sold his invention in 1924, later making the Motorola Corporation famous.

Maybe the Kelly was the first with a "factory installed" (perhaps a Motorola?) radio?

Or something.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: GUEST,ethan
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:12 AM

the very first paint roller

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: number 6
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:57 AM

God.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:58 AM

The listed information about the gramaphone is a tad misleading. Invented in 1888, the name itself given it by Berliner derived from the inverted earlier 'phonograph.'

"The phonograph was the worlds first audio recording device. It was invented in 1877 by the American Thomas Edison (1847-1931)."

Edison first used wax cylinders; Berliner first used the flat disc (rubber, not wax)

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 05:48 PM

From "That Was The Week That Was" Words and Music By Tom Lehrer

Gather 'round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun,
A man whose allegiance
Is ruled by expedience.
Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown,
"Ha, Nazi, Schmazi," says Wernher von Braun.

Don't say that he's hypocritical,
Say rather that he's apolitical.
"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.

Some have harsh words for this man of renown,
But some think our attitude
Should be one of gratitude,
Like the widows and cripples in old London town,
Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun.

You too may be a big hero,
Once you've learned to count backwards to zero.
"In German oder English I know how to count down,
Und I'm learning Chinese!" says Wernher von Braun.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: GUEST,Andrew
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 10:28 PM

I think Leonardo Davinci was the greatest inventor given the times he lived in.

People are still discovering original ideas in his drwaings and sketches.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: number 6
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 10:34 PM

Andrew ... Certainly not disputing the claim that he was the greatest inventor inf history .... but what inventions of his are American's claiming as theirs?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 10:37 PM

... except he was referring to many older unpreserved Greek documents...

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 10:46 PM

I invented Chongo Chimp. (and a number of other fictional characters)

I am not an American. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: number 6
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 10:48 PM

Chongo Chimp ... a Canadian embarrassment.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: GUEST,Andrew
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 10:49 PM

Sorry I forgot you have an anti-american axe to grind. I withdraw my post.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 10:55 PM

The better you grind it, the sharper it gets.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: GUEST,Andrew
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 10:59 PM

The existence of WMD's in Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: number 6
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:00 PM

Oh no ... you gotta be serious.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: GUEST,Andrew
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:01 PM

Arrogant assholes.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:06 PM

How about those inventions NOT claimed to be American...such as:

A secret worldwide terrorist organization called Al Queda?

A plan to very efficiently knock down the World Trade Center Towers in a mere couple of hours, just like a controlled demolition?

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:09 PM

"Arrogant assholes."

Nope - the Romans invented them... they too had the most powerful army...

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: GUEST,Andrew
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:12 PM

Every problem in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: number 6
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:14 PM

"Arrogant assholes." ... I thought that was specifically reserved for the French.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:22 PM

Well the French do have strong Roman historical ties... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Inventions 'claimed' to be American
From: GUEST,Andrew
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:38 PM

People that are jealous of a neighbor that has more than they do.