BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)

Subject: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 10:11 AM

In my life I have been blessed to know many people who I held (or hold) in the highest regard. They are people who have had a positive effect in my life, who have taught me tolerance and given me hope. Among them are:

    Art, Rosa - Atheists (along with many other)
    Walter - a catholic priest
    Skip - a Baptist minister
    My youngest son - a Agnostic
    My son Pasha - a Muslim
    Howard -a Jew
    Roger - a gay man
    jimmy - a Republican (among many)
    Willie C. - a Democrat (among many)
    Kempton - a multimillionaire
    Anna - living in Public Housing on government assistance
   
For so many people, others are divided by labels and looked upon more commonly as antagonists... rich versus poor, straight versus gay, Republican versus Democrat, Christians, Jews and muslims versus Atheists and Agnostics (and sometimes Christians versus Jews and vice versa. It's not just politics where this happens. Our culture seems to be built around labels and division. That's as obvious on Mudcat as it is in politics. Too often, birds of a feather take a dump on all other birds.

So, what is the measure of man (and woman)? Is it the labels that divide us? I don't think so. What are the common qualities in my list of people who I respect and admire? I'm sure that you have your own list, and hopefully it's equally diverse.

I'll start out with a quality each of my friends listed above have in abundance: compassion. They have (or had) a great capacity for
empathizing with those who were less fortunate than them. They didn't just give to charity... they shared their blessings happily with those who were in need, whether it was money, material goods, time or encouragement.

Compassion isn't gay or straight, Republican or Democrat (no matter how much some insist they are) rich or poor, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Agnostic or Atheist. It is a basic human quality, and one of many "measures of man, and woman."

Tell me about your list, and what qualities you feel are the true measure of a man or woman...

As Frasier said, "I'm listening.."

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 10:16 AM

Compassion.

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: the one
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 10:23 AM

my list, the all world, to give and not expect to receive. in nutshell to love one another to want the best for all, to abolish fear and ignorance.WE ARE ONE. PIP.XX

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 02:35 PM

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 02:43 PM

Honesty, respect for others, compassion. And a sense of humor.

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 02:44 PM

As Gnu said, it is compassion that sets real men and women apart from those who have little of it. It was Aquinas who said "I would rather feel compassion than know the meaning of it." I have to agree with that.

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 03:14 PM

Our revels now are ended. These our actors,        
As I foretold you, were all spirits, and              
Are melted into air, into thin air;        
And, like the baseless fabric of this vision,        
The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces,        
The solemn temples, the great globe itself,              
Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve        
And, like this insubstantial pageant faded,        
Leave not a rack 20 behind. We are such stuff        
As dreams are made on, and our little life              
Is rounded with a sleep.

I no longer look for justice but for mercy.

Lord, make me an instrument of Your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.
O, Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.

But first, we must define Man (Or Woman).

I have of late—but wherefore I know not—lost all my mirth, foregone all custom of exercise; and indeed it goes so heavily with my disposition that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. What a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason! How infinte in faculty! In form and moving how express and admirable! In action how like an angel! In apprehension how like a god! The beauty of the world! The paragon of animals! And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust?

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 03:27 PM

I prefer not to measure people. Everyone can teach us something, and everyone has the ability to surprise (in a positive way). And who am I to judge anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 04:09 PM

Honesty, accountability and humility.

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 04:14 PM

Humility... that is a quality that is rare... to truly know oneself without any pretense. Unless someone has humility, it is hard to truly get to know them. Without humility, too much energy goes into keeping up walls.

I don't measure one person against another, Carol. Judging can be positive, as well as negative. I am just thankful for the people in my life who have set an example for me.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 05:50 PM

A very pretty post in many ways Jerry, thanks.

my measure: do they turn into this with the least bit of authority...
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/warprez1.gif

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: leftydee
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 06:13 PM

Open-mindedness is certainly a trait I admire. Couple this with thoughtfulness and you usually find a terrific person. The open minded thinking person is able to walk in others moccasins for a few miles before making judgements. It's the trait I most aspire to, it is taking things at face value.

A few who have inspired me:

Both my Grandfathers - both simple and fair men

Dan - a Capuchin Monk, totally selfless

Kay - teacher that gave me the gift of thinking

Ron - dear friend and activist that I named my youngest child after

Daisy - English Setter ( I'm not kidding!)

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 06:23 PM

Well.... the thing is, I don't usually measure 'em, against anything-- people, standards, God, expexctations. I find the measuring takes all the fun out of unwrapping the package, much less playing with the contents.

If they fit with me in some way, it's immediately apparent, and it usually turns out to require both of us stretching considerably in a process of individual and mutual discovery.

When I HAVE "measured" them (and really, we can't), hindsight has usually and quickly proven me way off in my estimate. They invariably turn out to be more human, normal, flawed, simple, and complex than whatever attracted me. As do I, than whatever attracted them to me. ANd then there's the pesky reality that nobody is really the same, from one day to the next.

My expeience has been that by the time you put away the tape, it's obsolete. "Ooops! I measured in inches. Should have used gallons!"

However, seldom have I had to return a model back to its manufacturer. :~)

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 07:41 PM

There are so many yardsticks.

John 13:15 is one -- like Sally Rooke. To have the courage not only to commit to change, but to force it -- like Muhammed, like Martin Luther King Jr.

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 08:38 PM

Courage of your convictions... that's an excellent measurement, Rap..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 10:08 PM

Well, all those positive qualities count. What comes to mind first?

Honesty, compassion, a loving nature, strength of character, respect for self and others, open-mindedness, a sense of humour, and some degree of humility.

I don't give a hang whether they believe in "God" or not...I've met wonderful people and not so wonderful people on both sides of that particular matter. Besides, there are so many ways of believing in God or not that how could you ever get it all nailed down? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 10:22 PM

Courage of your convictions, yes -- but also flexibility in applying or even changing them. Rigidity is not good, for the reed bends but the tree snaps.

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 11:24 PM

And dreams.

I came across a fascinating story about a man who tried to create Utopia in southern Wisconsin... talk about a dreamer. But, he built a town built upon his dream, and put up the first concrete building in the United States. It was a well-documented stop on the underground railway. The man, Colonel Goodrich was a tee-totaler and donated a large plot of land in the center of the town to be used as a park with the stipulation that there would never be a tavern in the town. Long after his death, someone checked the old records and discovered that there was no legal restriction against having a bar, and they built one overlooking Goodrich's park.. named it The Park View Bar to add insult to injury.

The last two lines of the song are:

"If you're worth your salt, you'll hold on to your dreams
They're still the best measure of man."

I respect people with a vision and the determination to achieve their goal (if it is a worthy goal.) Better to try and fail than not to try at all.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 16 Jan 06 - 07:33 AM

Today I will be singing at a celebration of Martin Luther King Jr's birthday. He had a dream that has not yet come true. But his dream is a beacon for all of us and it still gives hope and determination to countless numbers of people.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: The Measure Of A Man (Or Woman)
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Jan 06 - 09:22 PM

I have my heroes, those I think are the best that humanity has to offer.

--Those who work day after day in a dead-end, mindless, job, possibly one that could easily snuff out life like a candle flame, so that their kids can eat and, perhaps, have a better life.

--Those that risk and often lose their own life to save others.

--Those that put their reputations on the line for what is right.

--Those that say "NO!" when it's necessary to say "NO!" -- and those that say "YES!" and then go beyond a simple affirmation.

--Those that see their duty and do it.

--Those that can go to sleep knowing that they've done the best they can for themselves and for others.

In brief, those who can get beyond Self and actually do for others without expectation of a reward of any sort.