Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 12:47 PM

I always thought that Clive Palmer kept the other two's feet on the ground and after he moved on they went a bit too aery faery.I still do a lot of stuff off the first album,along with Hedghog,the only one I do off 5000 spirits.The reunion the other year sadly didnt fly at all.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: GUEST,BUTTERFLY
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 11:01 AM

Amazingly, since I am a major ISB Fan, I only now noticed this thread which began in early 1999. Unfortunately I didn't follow the ISB from the beginning, and I first bought one of their LPs ("Liquid Acrobat as Regards the Air" in December 1971 because I liked the look of the album cover, I believe (I was pretty experimental, or naive, then!). I thought it was pretty good in a standard sort of light rock way. Then a friend played his copy of "Wee Tam and the Big Huge" in summer 1972 and I thought it was tremendous. That autumn I started buying up their albums. Of course they only kept going until 1974. No Ruinous Feud was the only album I didn't like and I later sold it.

They say that if you can remember the 1960s, you weren't there; well I can and I was, but some of the people posting to this thread sound like they weren't (ONLY JOKING); being of a pedantic nature I can't resist pointing out these errors:

(1) The title of their 2nd album was "5000 Spirits or Layers of Onions" and Clive is Clive Palmer (as someone has already pointed out).
(2) The late Roy Williamson of the Corries was NOT Robin's brother, though I think they may have lived near each other in Edinburgh. Apparently Robin's father was originally from Co. Armagh in Northern Ireland (where I live) and once or twice I think I can hear an Ulster pronunciation of a word or two). When the ISB started I thought Robin had a fairly "posh" accent but as he has got older it has become more Scottish.
(3) It's the Hangman's Beautiful (not Lovely) Daughter). This seems to be generally regarded as their finest album, the equivalent of the Beatles "Sergeant Pepper". Naturally, since I prefer "Abbey Road" to the latter, I prefer "Wee Tam and The Big Huge" (which I first heard as a double album in 1972 although they were originally released separately as "Wee Tam" and "The Big Huge".

The 2nd album is called "The 5000 Spirits or the Layers of the Onion" and marks a transition to more psychedlic stuff. Although I prefer WT&TBH and also "U" this is still a great album.

(4) On "The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter" "A Very Cellular Song" has the lyrics "Who would mouse and who would lion, and who would be the tamer". There is a track called "Three is a Green Crown" on this which at first I thought was a misprint for "There is a Green Crown". Maya is a long "song"(9+ minutes; they used to do quite a lot of these, which because of the variety never bored me) on "The Big Huge". "Dust Be Diamonds" was on "Changing Horses", as was "Big Ted" (the lyrics were "He'd eat most anything, never wore a wig" and "He's gone like snow on the water, Goodbyeee").

(4) On "The Hedgehog's Song" on 5000 Spirits, etc, the lyrics are:

"Oh you know all the WORDS and you SUNG all the notes,
but you never quite learned the song she sung
I can tell by the sadness in your eyes
That you never quite learned the song."


My own favourite songs are "October Song" from the 1st album (not just because I was born in October - I think I bought it in February 1973) but because of the great guitar accompaniment and the lyrics:

"I used to search for happiness
And I used to follow pleasure
But I found a door behind my mind
And that's the greatest treasure

For rulers like to lay down laws
And rebels like to break them
And the poor priests like to walk in chains
And God likes to forsake them"

If pressed, I would nominate this as the best song of all time (not just by the ISB) but of course that's just my opinion. Dandelion Blues on the same album though more upbeat has a great guitar accompaniment. However "Ducks on a Pond", the last track on "Wee Tam" is perhaps even more moving than "October Song"; I think if one was given the choice of a song to die to (assuming that the passage was peaceful) this is the one I would choose (Not just yet folks!).

The mandolin break on "A very Cellular Song" is just divine. There is a whole side of great instrumentals on "Be Glad for the Song has No Ending". In a way, if I can avoid being quoted in Private Eye magazine's "Pseuds Corner", all their songs are "love" songs, in that they are generally done with such love and care. Aery Faery they are not - they might be ethereal but have a pretty definite and distinctive feel.

I suppose I could recommend all their albums up to their break except No Ruinous Feud, although after 1970 they got less original. The albums are: 1st; 5000 Spirits or the Layers of the Onion; The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter; Wee Tam and The Big Huge; Changing Horses; I Looked Up; U; Be Glad for the Song Has No Ending. The latter is also the name of a film starring members of the ISB which was made into a Video a few years back though I don't know if they are still available. It was produced by Austin John Marshall, ex (I think) husband of Shirley Collins.

I don't think people who haven't heard them should get the idea they are musically undisciplined; don't confuse complexity with laziness. They don't paly out of tune/key/rhythm, although these can often be deliberately varied. Some of their best songs can be quite simple, eg Mike Heron's "Greatest Friend" on "The Big Huge" with just acoustic guitar and harmonica, which is very reminscent of the style of early Bob Dylan.

I may be wrong, but I think Smoke Shovelling Song should be taken at face value as light hearted song rather than being "drug-focused" etc. Not only do you not have to take drugs to appreciate them (as an unrepentant "square" I can say this honestly) but I think also the affect of drugs on musical creativity is over-rated. Obviously you need the basic talent. If I was to get high on cocaine or marijuana or whatecver it certainly wouldn't turn me into a brilliant song writer or performer. Robin Williamson was obviously steeped in the traditional music of the British Isles and Mike Heron was into Rhythm and Blues, etc, before they teamed up.

Criticisms of Robin Williamson's voice amaze me. I suspect 90% of folk and rock singers may not bear comparison technically with Pavorotti (Surprised there wasn't a joke in Hale and Pace: "I hate Pavorotti". "I hate all Italian food") but that's not the point. Imagine Pavarotti trying ISB Stuff. I don't think many people could have carried sonsg like October song, Womankind (from 1st album) or My Name is Death, from 5000 Spirits, the way Robin did.

The 2 (main) females associated with ISB were Rose Simpson and Christina (Licorice/Likky) McKechnie. The former was I think the partner of a Liberal or Liberal Democrat Mayor of Aberystwyth (I don't think they were married) and as a result became known as the Lady Mayor, some years ago. Licorice unfortunately went missing without trace some years ago in the USA and no-one knows whether she is alive or not (I think she had bouts of depression). Her sister has been appealing over the Internet, etc, for news but I think so far nothing has come up.

Most of the information above not available on the albums I got from reading the ISB fanzine "Be Glad" which came out for a few years before ceasing publication about a year or two ago. I think that there is a website for Be Glad as well as an offical and no doubt some unofficial ISB websites.

The ISB reformed with the 3 original personnel (Robin williamson, Mike Heron and Clive Palmer) about 2 years ago and have already iosued an album. I think Clive's choice of aongs and playing is among the best bits of their recent stuff album, though I also like the new arrangements of old songs like "Just Like the Ivy". I remember being stuck in a car park due to the volume of traffic for about 30 minutes after a fireowrk display on the Millennium Eve evening (31st December 1999) and having my sanity saved by listening to Just Like the Ivy in the car. The banjo accompaniment (which I later found out was "Whistling Rufus") is just great.

In summary, the ISB is not everyone's cup of tea, though you don't need to be a hippy (ageing or otherwise) to appreciate them; probably few if any of them are immediately appealing to a majority. Conversely the best of their songs are the sort which one can still greatly enjoy many years later. In a way the person who suggested their songs were like children's songs was on the right track; I suppose Robin in particular might say we are all grown up children (and why should adults lose the child's sense of wonder?).

Quite a few better known performers have acknowledged influence by the ISB. Sorry I can't name them at present, just trust me that this is true according to what I have read.

Like the Beatles and so many other artists, musical or otherwise, they produced their best work in the early or mid years. I don't think they will ever hit the same highs but with luck they will continue to surprise me at least, eg with interesting arrangements of traditional or old time music hall type songs, etc.

Just to finish with the cliche that I have no connection with the band except as a satisfied customer, sorry lifelong fan. Oh, and I once got a postcard from Robin Williamson in response to a letter from me.

P.S. Unauthorised reproduction of any part of this masterpiece outside the Mudcat Forum will result in your grandmother being taken mysteriously ill. You will also receive a letter from my solicitors BASTARD, BASTARD, BASTARD & BASTARD.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: Doktor Doktor
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 11:05 AM

Anyone know what became of David Porter?

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 07:36 AM

Bless you, Butterfly.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 03:26 PM

Love the Merry Band stuff as well.......

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: belfast
Date: 01 Nov 03 - 10:40 AM

That's a great posting by Butterfly. A lovely bit of work. Here's a little snippet of information. Someone back there quotes 'The Goodnight Song' – Lay down, my dear sister etc. As most of you will already know they got it from the Pindar Family who recorded it on a great, great album, 'The Real Bahamas'.

I once had their first album on vinyl. It has long since disappeared but I recall an instrumental track on it by Clive Palmer, 'Jazzbo's Holiday'. Recently I got the album again, CD format, and I find that the track has been retitled rather offensively. Is my memory playing tricks?

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Nov 03 - 10:59 AM

No idea where 'Jazbo's Holiday' came from.

I assume that the instrumental referred to was the banjo tune that I had on vinyl here in the UK. This appeared - way back in the 1960s - (offensive or not) as 'Niggertown'. I am pretty sure that it is still called this on the CD that I have.

If it is the same tune - could it be that 'Jazbo's Holiday' is the re-title?

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Nov 03 - 11:05 AM

The Incredible String Band (1966)

Robin: October Song, Womankind, Dandelion Blues, Smoke Shovelling Song, Good As Gone
Mike: Maybe Someday, When the Music Starts To Play, The Tree, Oh Lord How Happy I Am, Can't Keep Me Here, Footsteps of the Heron, Everything's Fine Right Now
Clive: Empty Pocket Blues
Traditionals: Schaeffer's Jig, Whistle Tune, Niggertown

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: GUEST,Bloke in the Corner
Date: 01 Nov 03 - 02:06 PM

'October Song' is certainly one of the most beautifully melancholy songs ever written, I'd sing it myself but I just break down each time. Voltaire took loads more pages to say similar in 'Candide'. Robin Williamson came to a village hall in Lincolnshire about ten years ago and spellbound us all with tales and songs. And at the end he sang it. I'll never forget it - nor do I want to.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: GUEST,Andrew
Date: 01 Nov 03 - 03:32 PM

Shambles : On the John James Album I have Jazzbo's Holiday is attributed to 'Berryman' which I assume is Pete Berryman.

Its a song though not an instrumental. Would it be the same one ?

Weary wheatstraw took his bride
By the tender hand asked her without pride ..

etc




Andrew

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: GUEST,big jake
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 02:45 AM

Its been mentioned above that one member of the ISB from the late 60´s period, Chistina `Licorice´McKechnie, has been officialy missing without trace since around 1990. She was last heard of in the Los Angeles area and was reportedly having some pretty bad personal problems. I dont suppose any LA ´catters know any more........the royalties must be mounting.........and she was a very, very magical singer.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 07:35 AM

Magical, ethereal...Likky's voice was certainly special..I'm sure many of us are concerned about her welfare..

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: belfast
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 09:07 AM

I was just about convinced that my memory had totally invented "Jazzbo's Holiday". Unfortunately my memory is not creative, merely incompetent. I did a quick search and came across this site Famous Jug Band
It seems that " Jazzbo's Holiday" a banjo/guitar duet was recorded by Clive Palmer and Robin Williamson on an LP "Edinburgh Folk Festival Vol. 1". (I wonder where my copy of that album went.) My memory, useless but plausible, shifted this track onto the first ISB album. Sorry about that.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 01:02 PM

I have the vinyl 1st Edinburg Folk Festival album and was going to post re Jazzbos Holiday , but as always was too late.I keep having a little dabble at it but get lost in the complexities of the banjo part far too early in the piece. All my friends agree that it would be a lot better if I learned how to PLAY the banjo,or preferably STOPPED playing the banjo.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: belfast
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 02:14 PM

Cherish that album. It's a collector's item, I'm sure. Mind you, I can barely remember what else is on it. Owen Hand singing "Going out for the First time". I remember that one. Is Ray Fisher on it? Archie? And why was Edinburgh producing so much great stuff at that time?

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: GUEST,BUTTERFLY
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 07:03 AM

As Andrew (Guest) has pointed out, Jazzbo's holiday is a song by Peter Berryman but sung by John James on his 1971 album called simply John James. However it is a fortuitous slip that brought to our attention another LP on which Robin Williamson and Clive Palmer play together. Despite getting and reading all the copies of "Be Glad", the ISB fanzine, I cannot remember hearing about this Edinburgh Folk Club Vol. 1 album. Does anyone know whether it is still obtainable?

Thanks to the people who appreciated my last posting about the ISB.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: belfast
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 08:03 AM

There's a copy on sale here Secondhand LPsfor about twenty quid. Maybe it's just me, but that seems a wee bit excessive.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: GUEST,big jake
Date: 04 Nov 03 - 12:08 PM

Just refreshing this to see if there is any response to my posting (about 6 from the bottom), looking for any information about the missing Licorice....

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: davidkiddnet
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 06:52 PM

Some of the poetry of Mike Heron and Robin Williamson have helped me through toughest times in my life, particularily "White Bird", off Changing Horse, "October Song", and "The Tree" off their debut album. Although I haven't heard that album played in twenty years I can still hear it quite clearly. I also delight in singing the amusing "Amoebas are very small" section of Mike's "A Very Cellular Song".
I was recently pleased to find a website where the laddie has tried to write down many lyrics but he's got it not quite right in a few places in my opinion.
I was sad to find he gave up on The Tree by Mike Heron. He only wrote down this bit:
"I had a Tree, in the dream hills where my childhood lay.
And I'd go there in the wide, long days,
And my Tree would listen to all that I'd say.
And the sun was shining brightly,
and the sky was smiling."

But I 'm sure it went on something like:
"And then one day when the world had got me in its gloom,
And my life was just an empty tomb,
And the sky was fading dimly and the skies were crying
And then my tree bent its branches down low down to the ground....."

then tree'y made everything better again. Who knows the words?
I wish I could work out the chords to my favourite tunes October Song and the Tree. Can anybody give me a hint?

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: davidkiddnet
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 07:10 PM

re 02 Nov 03 "Owen Hand singing...And why was Edinburgh producing so much great stuff at that time?"

It was so GREAT because I WAS THERE of course! Owen Hand was a great friend to all of us. One evening when we was visiting him Bert Jansch and John Renbourne dropped in on Owen and we sat around shovelling smoke. Tales were about when Robin Williamson and Bert Jansch toured the London folk scene together in the sixties. Then Clive Palmer, Owen Hand and Alan Jackson worked up a set of great new numbers together. But Clive did a runner and performed them with Robin Williamson and Mike Heron instead! Owen couldn't forgive Clive. So sadly the scene was divided between Owen Hand's friends and the friends of Clive, Robin and Mike. I was heart-torn on the borderline between them. It was sad that artists suffered in a time of Love and Peace. Perhaps time has healed wounds.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: BanjoRay
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 07:18 PM

October Song has a pretty simple sequence. I think Williamson used to use an open G tuning on his guitar (but don't quote me on that)
You, of course, would have to use the key you're comfortable singing with.
Cheers
Ray
G             C    G C    G
I'll sing you this october song
G    D            G
There is no song before it
G             C    G   C          G
The words and tune are none of my own
G      D                G
But my joys and sorrows bore it

G          G7      C       G
Beside the sea the brambly briar
D               G
In the shade of evening
G         C   G C       G
Birds fly out behind the sun
G   D                G
And with them I'll be leaving

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 05:33 AM

I think that it was open D for this song. Then the twiddly bit can be played on the top E string.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: belfast
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 07:41 AM

Interesting to hear the stories about Edinburgh. And,yes, October Song is played in open D though you can most of it in a dropped D tuning. There's a book by Happy Traum giving transcriptions and tablature for a lot of their stuff.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: BanjoRay
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 08:00 AM

Yes - you're right. I used to do it in open D many years ago. I just worked out the chords on the banjo - hence the confusion. Chords easily transposed to D from G. (think 1,4,5)
Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: davidkiddnet
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 03:40 PM

Re the stories about Edinburgh, if this is going down in history I regret I made a mistake, when I said that in the sixties "Clive Palmer, Owen Hand and Alan Jackson worked up a set of great new numbers together". It wasn't Alan Jackson the poet, no it was Alan Mc...., er- Alan McAcannaeremember. But Alan was a big fan of "Death chants Blues and breakdowns". Alan gave up professional folk too and went into teaching. He became the headmaster of a school somewhere in the Borders.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 05:22 AM

Yes - you're right. I used to do it in open D many years ago. I just worked out the chords on the banjo - hence the confusion. Chords easily transposed to D from G. (think 1,4,5)

I think that the original recording was in G, in open D tuning but with the capo on the 5th fret.

Thanks to you posting the song - I was doodling along and played the song (and the twiddly bit) on the bouzouki. This was tuned GDAE. I was finger-picking and I found that it works very well.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: davidkiddnet
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 12:16 PM

Hey Banjo Ray, in D do you mean like this?:

OCTOBER SONG by Robin Williamson
D             G    D    G   
I'll sing you this October song
D          A             D
For there is no song before it.
D             G       D         G      
The words and tune are none of my own
D       A                D
For my joys and sorrows bore it.
D             D7    G       D
Beside the sea grows brambly briars
A                  D
In the still of evening.
D          G    D      G   
Birds fly out behind the sun
D       A             D
And with them I'll be leaving.

The fallen leaves that jewel the ground,
They know the art of dying,
And leave with joy their glad gold hearts
In the scarlet shadows lying.

When hunger calls my footsteps home,
And the morning follows after,
I'll swim the seas within my mind
And the pine-trees laugh green laughter.

I used to search for happiness
And I used to follow pleasure,
But I found a door behind my mind,
And that's the greatest treasure.

For rulers like to lay down laws
And rebels like to break them,
The poor priests like to walk in chains
And God likes to forsake them.

I met a man whose name was Time
And he said I must be going,
But just how long that was
I have no way of knowing.

Sometimes I'd like to murder time
Sometimes when my heart's aching,
But mostly I just stroll along
The path that he is taking.
_______________________________

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: davidkiddnet
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 12:51 PM

So Ray worked out October in open G banjo then D on guitar in open D; But Shambles thinks perhaps its key is G in open D + capo 5th. I think Banjo playing may have damaged my health too because I started on banjo then tried to play it slide guitar in C but in open G starting at 5th fret. It was kinda fun cos all the slides were like upside down. Then I decided it might be better if I just got a job.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 07:42 AM

Interesting to hear the stories about Edinburgh. And,yes, October Song is played in open D though you can most of it in a dropped D tuning. There's a book by Happy Traum giving transcriptions and tablature for a lot of their stuff.

I dug out a dusty copy of Happy Traum's book and this gives open D with capo on the 5th fret.

This also reminded me that I borrowed this book and should have really returned a long long time ago. Is it still possible to get this book?

Produced and distributed by Music Sales Corporation 33 West Street, New York 10023.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 09:21 PM

There is/are at least one (perhaps 2) books published about the ISB; I got a leaflet advertising one recently (probably from Pigs Whisker Music). Though I cannot find it at present, if anyone is interested I may be able to get hold of it. However if you look for "Incredible String Band" on the Internet and hence find the official websites, you can probably find out all about this. Sorry I have to break off as it is after 2 am.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: Joybell
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 02:17 AM

These songs got me through some hard times too. "Good as Gone" and "October Song" still give me goose bumps. Joy

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: davidkiddnet
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 05:52 PM

1. belfast says "There's a book by Happy Traum giving transcriptions and tablature for a lot of their stuff", and The Shambles adds "I dug out a dusty copy of Happy Traum's book and this gives open D with capo on the 5th fret. Is it still possible to get this book? Produced and distributed by Music Sales Corporation 33 West Street, New York 10023.

3. On the web the only reference I can find is on that repeats "The Incredible String Band Songbook. Happy Traum, editor, published by Music Sales Corp., contains music from the first three albums and great photos plus"

however I can't find this book anywhere. Lists of Happy Traum's many books don't include it. Also Music Sales website doesn't include it. Was it published so long ago that it's out of print?

Hey Man, whose name was Time, have you seen copies for sale anywhere?

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: davidkiddnet
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 10:03 AM

I used to play something even simpler, but Banjo Ray's GCGCG line made me look into the twiddley bits. So I bought a new CD of ISB on March 26 and studied it. However by looking up chord progressions and cadences, instead of GCGCG I get G C Em Am Em G.

October Song
by Robin Williamson

Instrumental opening of 24 beats:

1 [G] 2 [D7] 3 [G] 2 4 5 [D7] 6 [D] 7 8
9 10 [C] 11 12 13 [G] 14
15 16 17 18 19 [D7]
20 [G] 21 22 13 24

[G] I'll sing you [C] this [Em] Oct[Am]o[Em]ber [G] song
For there [D] is no song before [G] it.
The words and [C] tune [Em] are [Am] none [Em] of my [G] own
For my [D] joys and sorrows [G] bore it
Be[C]side the [G7] sea [G] grow [C] bram[Em]bly [G] briars
[D] In the still of eve[G]ning.
Birds fly [C] out [Em] be[Am]hind [Em] the [G] sun
And [D] with them [D7] I'll be [G] leaving

Those quick Em Am chords may look too complex but they're the music you're making already because you're singing some of the notes of those chords at the same time. Also they are what you're really playing in your twiddley bits.

After the Instrumental the second an fourth verse open with G G7 C G

[G] The fallen [G7] leaves [G] that [C] jewel the [G] ground,
They know the art of dying,
And leave with joy their glad gold hearts
In the scarlet shadows lying.
When hunger calls my footsteps home,
The morning follows after,
I swim the seas within my mind
And the pine-trees laugh green laughter.

After the Instrumental first and third verse open with G C Em G

[G] I used to [C] search for [Em] happi[G]ness
And I used to follow pleasure,
But I've found a door behind my mind,
And that's the greatest treasure.
For rulers like to lay down laws
And rebels like to break them,
And the poor priests like to walk in chains
And God likes to forsake them.

After the Instrumental second and fourth verse open with G G7 C G

I met a [G7] man [G] whose [C] name was [G] Time
And he said I must be going,
But just how long ago that was
I have no way of knowing.
Sometimes I want to murder time
Sometimes when my heart's aching,
But mostly I just stroll along
The path that he is taking.

END

__________________________________________________________________________

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: davidkiddnet
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 03:48 PM

"Is it still possible to get this book?:
The Incredible String Band Songbook. Happy Traum, editor, published by Music Sales Corp."
_____________________________

I found that Music Sales Corporation are now part of        
G. Schirmer Inc, 257 Park Ave South, New York, NY 10010, USA.
http://www.schirmer.com        
mailto:[e-mail]

so I e-mailed this on 3/25/04
"On the Mudcat Web Forum many members are discussing music of The Incredible String Band (circa 1970) and some members have seen a book: The Incredible String Band Songbook. Happy Traum, editor, Band (circa 1970) published by Music Sales Corporation 33 West Street, New York 10023. Was that you? The book contains music from the bands first three albums and photos. However none of us can find this book anywhere. Lists of Happy Traum's many books don't include it. Neither the Music Sales international webite nor your website include it. Is it out of print? Is it still possible to get this book? Suggestions?"
_______________________________________________________

REPLY
They will not admit they ever even HAD the book, you have to fill-in the form below to even get them to LOOK for it:
In short their reply is just ask the person who has a copy [The Shambles] to photocopy it with their permission.
I wonder if Shambles could get permission to put it on the Mudcat website? Do like: "Oh! Oops, when I was making a copy on my scanner/copier I accidentally pressed the wrong button and it must have gone online by mistake. Oh deary -me, I'm terribly sorry mister Shirmer"

I live in the USA at the moment but you could try the UK adress at the bottom of this message
_____________________________________________________

Music Sales Corporation/G. Schirmer Inc.
Thank you for your interest in G. Schirmer's composers and publications. We have designed this FAQ to provide you with the most efficient answers to many questions. An HTML version of this FAQ can be found on our website at If you don't find the answers to your questions here, please contact our offices via mail, phone, fax or e-mail at the address below: G. Schirmer Promotion Department 257 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10010 phone: [phone] fax: [phone]. E-mail: [e-mail] (be sure to include the phrase Schirmer Promotion Department spelled exactly this way in the subject line of your e-mail)

Frequently Asked Question 1
I need music formerly published by G. Schirmer or AMP that is out of print. How do I get it?

If you already have access to a copy of an out-of-print work, it will be simpler, faster, and possibly cheaper to obtain permission to make your own photocopies, rather than asking us for archival photocopies (as long as it is a G. Schirmer/AMP publication). For this permission, please write to "Permissions" at the address below. You can also print our "Permission Request: Copy Out-of-Print Music" form () and fax it to the number on the form.
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Permission Request to Copy Out-of-Print Music
Please mail or fax this form to:
Aida Garcia-Cole, Print Licensing Manager
G. Schirmer, Inc.
257 Park Ave South, 20th floor
New York, NY 10010
Fax: [phone]
Thank you for requesting permission to use our copyrighted material. Before we consider your request, please supply us with the following information:

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Your Name

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Organization

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Address

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City, State, Zip/Postal Code, Country

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Phone Number                         E-mail address / Fax Number

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Title of the Composition
Mike Heron, Robin Williamson
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Name of Composer

"The Incredible String Band Songbook" edited by Happy Traum
published by Music Sales Corporation about 1970
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Title of Collective Work (if applicable)

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Number of Copies to be Made

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For Use In
Please attach additional pages for comments and clarifications. Your request will be considered for the necessary license. Our reply will include the acknowledgement which must appear under each copy made. Thank you for your interest in our music.
G. Schirmer/AMP Home Page
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Frequently Asked Question 2
I need music formerly published by G. Schirmer or AMP that is out of print. How do I get it?

If you are fairly sure that the music you need was published by G. Schirmer or AMP and that it is out of print, please make your request for archival photocopies in writing, by letter or fax (no phone calls or E-mail messages, please), to: Archive Dept. G. Schirmer, Inc. 257 Park Ave. South New York, NY 10010 fax [phone]
Please include as much identifying detail as possible: composer, title, publisher(s), instrumentation, date, plate numbers, catalog numbers, etc. If you are not certain that the music was published by G. Schirmer or AMP, please indicate your reasons for thinking that it might have been (this will help us locate the music).
In your request, please include your mailing address, an e-mail address and/or fax number if possible, and the number of copies you require.
If a copy can be located, a confirmation will be sent to you with a price quote for the music. Shorter items will typically cost $5.00 to $12.00 per copy; longer items will be more expensive. In addition, there will be copying & shipping charges usually between $3.50 and $5.00 (more for overseas shipping or heavier packages). Any additional questions about pricing should be addressed to the Archives Department in your written request.
Once you have responded to the confirmation, photocopies will be shipped to you along with an invoice. You may then pay by check or credit card (Visa/MasterCard only). Please note:
Normally, photocopies will be double-sided, not bound. Also, it may be 60 days or more before we can get the music to you. If you have a deadline or an urgent need for faster action, please explain in your request and we will try to accommodate you.
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Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: GUEST,davidkiddnet
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 06:53 PM

Well I see my last message put everybody off;
that was too much for a chat.
Sorry, I'll keep it more concise instead:
If anybody speaks to me again.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 04:15 AM

I've just acquired a CD called "O for Summer" by The Famous Jug Band which includes Clive Palmer on banjo.

RtS

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: GUEST,davidkiddnet
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 01:43 PM

It looks like I'm going to have to get photocopies of Happy Traum's book from the publishers archives, but since the publishers won't even tell me what the Contents are, I have to somehow tell them intuitively which pages to copy.
Back in March The Shambles dug out a dusty copy of Happy Traum's book: Which pages should I ask for? Like which pages actualy have scores on them. I don't want to have to pay for tables of chords or photos or advertisements. So which?

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: Dita
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:32 PM

There were in fact two books produced by this company.

The first used the cover of "Hangman" and contained all the songs from the first three albums.

A second edition of this was released with three of the songs from the first album replaced (including "Empty pocket Blues"), by three from "Wee Tam & the Big Huge" (including "Cousin Caterpiller").

The second had a green cover with ?four small pictures of band ? "Changing Horses" shoot. It contained songs up to "I Looked Up" (including "Black Jack Davy").

I'm afraid my copies of the first edition and the second book were "borrowed", in the seventies. I did however manage to buy a copy of the second edition in the 70s which I still have.(I got wise).

Given that a copy of Fairport Convention's first songbook, of the same vintage, sold on ebay for around £130.00 last year, your best bet is secondhand bookshops with a music section.

Cheers, Dita

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 08:44 PM

My book was the first one but the one I 'have' now seems to be the second edition of the first book.

A second edition of this was released with three of the songs from the first album replaced (including "Empty pocket Blues"), by three from "Wee Tam & the Big Huge" (including "Cousin Caterpiller").

Pages 18 - 112 of this book contain the songs.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: Bentley
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 05:34 AM

An amazing Band!I last saw Robin and Mike at the Anvil in Basingstoke a couple of years ago and was still mesmerised. I have all their albums and still play them now,though I've burnt them onto CDs. I drive a taxi here in Basingstoke so you can imagine the comments I get! Hedgehog Song,Amoeba etc,pure magic.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: GUEST,ShoeMole
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 09:57 AM

Ahh, the wonderful ISB. They are probably my favourite band and I have good fun working out my favourite songs. I can nearly play Ducks on a Pond now.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: Bentley
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 08:32 AM

My girlfriend at the time thought that the ISB were definitely not of this planet. I took her to see them at the Rainbow at Finsbury,thinking that she would understand what they were about,and what do you know,she thought they were awful! Now,however,she plays them through choice.Sometimes.Life is weird.Long may the song have no ending. Thank you for the music ISB.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: Scotus
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 10:10 AM

I remember Robin and Clive when they were just 'Robin and Clive' and shared a gig or two with them 'way back in the 1960s'. They were doing a mixture of celtic and old time music then - hadn't started writing their own stuff. It must have been about 1964 or 1965 because I was singing with Barbara at the time.

Jack beck

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 11:59 PM

WHITE BIRD LYRICS
I have been fascinated by White Bird by Mike Heron on Changing Horses because it sounds to me like an account of true religious experience with a mystical death. So much fascinated that I have got all the words sorted out except one.
And feels his heart sucked to his hizurvd
Sucked to his what? It sounds like hizurvd.
And feels his heart sucked to his served is possible but it doesn't make sense.
The sucked to his head version at http://isb.bakkevold.com and at http://www.lyrics007.com is obviously wrong because it doesn't even rhyme.

Are the Lyrics on the original record sleve? I know Creation was, but White Bird's words are not on the CD sleve. Could somebody have a look for that precious word for me?
I hear that in beGlad-The Anthology Mike Heron talks about White Bird being from an obscure Pakistani or Indian film alluding to Lata Mangeshkars breakthrough.

Are the lyrics in the book Gently Tender by Ken Brooks?

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
White Bird
By Mike Heron

Who among you, who has not laid his head
beneath some holy awning,
would think that such a night of tortured travelling
could bring such a glory morning?

And feel his heart sucked to his .............
His head so wide that all life serves
as room to live, and breathe, and have its being
and more, for such a scene of beauty.
For such a scene of beauty.
Encompassers
see the white bird
on the water
In beauty calm and still

White bird, white bird, white bird
of the morning.
White bird, white bird.

See he watches the white bird of the morning.
White bird, white bird.

Warm in his ecstasy
a shimmering gentle backward fall
He leaves his body there so small and mirror black against the sun
with deities for strength.
He sees his body wracked with pain
and hears his voice so stained with sadness deep
it asks the day to weep away

Loved her so strong now
she is gone.
My heart will break for ever

Sun and moon change around me
The games seem so strange
Walk in the light I shall never.
Walk in the light I will never.
White bird, white bird, white bird
of the morning.
White bird, white bird,

Oh speak to me with your beauty
Oh white bird of the morning
Oh he cried. Oh he cried,
but stopped short,
seeing not water but ice
death not life.
Dead white bird. Dead white bird.

Walking onward every day
Sunshine in our faces
Sun knows what grows on below
But still our faces graces
No disgraces
No distastes
Nothing wasted at all.

White bird, white bird, white bird
Of the morning
White bird, white bird

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 02:41 AM

I have always heard it as 'head'.........

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: GUEST,Richard Brandenburg
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 02:56 AM

How fine, adding to a thread from seven years ago; it seems just right, when I can hear the woman's voice, 36 years later.

"Amoebas are very small..."

This was the music we would put on when winding deeper into a night of tripping, when we finished running around the campus in the Missouri fall air. Taj Mahal, John Fahey, The Kweskin Jug Band, Hot Tuna, the Dead's "American Beauty", Fairport's "Leige & Lief", were all perfect earlier in the evening, when we were getting off, and heading into the night.

But we'd return to the dorm, (more than once from the astonishing illuminated William Blake edition at Lindenwood's library, which we could take from the stacks and open out on the table before us). We'd light candles, and know when it was time to put "The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter" onto the record player. The Incredible String Band, with their free sense of time, was the aural environment for opening to one another on a cellular level, which I am blessed to recall was the point of swallowing acid in the first place.

I can imagine how difficult it might be for someone today to "get" what the Incredible String Band might have meant to someone back then, with that sort of context of introduction; in my case, freshly away from home, opening out and inwardly, with like-minded musician friends - and feeling that Heron and Williamson were just friends we hadn't yet met. Drugs weren't strictly necessary to enjoy them, but our briefly benign world of psychedelics was profoundly enhanced by their music.

Thanks to Butterfly for her lovely post, three years ago, and the other posters who helped me refire some glorious synapses, tonight.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 06:18 AM

Magic, indeed...the most potent ever made, of its type.

To some extent, for those who don't get the Incredibles, you had to be there. They were (and still are, on record, for those who make the connection back into the mists of time) extraordinarily in the spirit of the mystical-magical 60s.

Their unfocused, wayward sound on many pieces was the epitome of the era's exploratory, adventurous, improvisatory approach to life. That approach came a cropper sometimes, but also produced miracles. Safer, sounder approaches reach neither extreme.

Amba and I saw the ISB in concert in Boston sometime in,I think, '68. Mike, Robin, Rose and Likky wandering about the instrument-and-fabric-littered stage, picking up this or that oud or kantele or sitar...making soaring music. Tim Buckley opened for them, a difficult artist capable of magic himself, but also capable of bombast. Of course the theater was choking with fragrant smoke... We came out into the night street addled with delight. The records barely capture what was a total life experience. We feel lucky to have been there. But it was not anything anyone today would recognize as a concert. "Love-fests" are very out of fashion nowadays, aren't they.

The "60s" ( = roughly '67-73 in mood and spirit) have been roundly damned by those with political antiagendas. But they were a new dawn, and for those of us lucky enough to sense it, the dawn keeps on dawning toward revelation (caveat: that has nothing to do with the standard meaning of the term). Nobody expressed that sense of wonder as well as the Incredible String Band.

Trivia note, I remember seeing an article on Arlo Guthrie as just a kid, Woody's boy, long before he ever recorded. He was quoted as saying the Incredible String Band were among his favorite listens at the time. No clue if they still are. But they still are for me. Their sounds grow and change and wreathe and twist with the passing years into new radiances forever.

Glad to see quoted the refrain to Mike's wonderful Hedghog...an anthem for us all.

They are not just part of Amba's and my lives. They helped create it.   In tribute... Bob.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 07:26 AM

Send me a PM if you want anything out of the First Song Book (1st Edition) - Bought it more than thirty years ago !!

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 08:00 AM

Ok, I will. Oh, 99 by the way.

Subject: RE: Incredible String Band: An Appreciation.
From: GUEST,Hedgehog
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 10:47 AM

GREAT