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BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!

GUEST,Dani 01 Mar 06 - 07:28 PM
Emma B 01 Mar 06 - 07:35 PM
Emma B 01 Mar 06 - 07:40 PM
Amos 01 Mar 06 - 11:36 PM
Peace 01 Mar 06 - 11:52 PM
Windsinger 02 Mar 06 - 02:48 AM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Mar 06 - 05:09 AM
GUEST,leeneia 02 Mar 06 - 09:41 AM
Janie 02 Mar 06 - 09:47 AM
Amos 02 Mar 06 - 09:50 AM
Windsinger 02 Mar 06 - 10:51 AM
Cluin 02 Mar 06 - 01:19 PM
GUEST,Dani 02 Mar 06 - 08:45 PM
Janie 02 Mar 06 - 09:43 PM
Wolfgang 04 Mar 06 - 06:23 AM
Purple Foxx 04 Mar 06 - 06:32 AM
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar 07 Mar 06 - 05:30 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Mar 06 - 06:29 PM
Cluin 07 Mar 06 - 07:50 PM
GUEST,Dani 07 Mar 06 - 08:23 PM
Anonny Mouse 08 Mar 06 - 03:17 PM

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Subject: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 07:28 PM

OK, Language Crew...

Where's it come from? How do you use it?

Dani


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: Emma B
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 07:35 PM

"Man dieth and wasteth away; yea man giveth up the ghost; and where is he?" Job XIV 10


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: Emma B
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 07:40 PM

"The idea is that life is independent of the body, and is due to the habitation of the ghost or spirit in the material body" Dictionary of Phrase and Fable
Hence - "to die"


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: Amos
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 11:36 PM

Ancient inheritance of dualism, that mortal life was a union between spirit and flesh; this union being the whole person. And when one was besieged with illness and hammered too hard by woe, he would finally "give up the ghost", meaning, surrender the fight and let the spirit depart from the body, or succumb.

It is also used metaphorically for other kinds of battles that one quits on after they become too much, but the original meaning is the above.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: Peace
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 11:52 PM

"From the Bible, Acts 12. 'And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.'"

The phrase appears also In Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales" with the meaning 'to die'. Toady it is often used in reference to things that stop working: "My watch gave up the ghost."


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: Windsinger
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 02:48 AM

Simple. It wasn't until about 1385 that "ghost" started to exclusively mean "apparition of a dead person."

The Old English word gast meant: "soul, spirit, life, breath."

For example, in religious writing, the Latin spiritus sanctus was always transliterated helig gast
(leading to us having the synonyms "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost" in our language today.)

Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 05:09 AM

Pre-Vatican II it was always "Holy Ghost" for Catholics - "Father, Son and Holy Ghost", but it got chnged to "Holy Spirit" beacuse of the linguistic drift back in the 14th century. You don't want to rush these things...

I always felt Holy Ghost sounded friendlier and more approachable than "Holy Spirit".


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 09:41 AM

Peace, you're right about that. At least in our house, when we say it, it's tongue in cheek and usually applies to an appliance or car.

I never thought of that before.


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: Janie
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 09:47 AM

Dani--dare we ask why you ask whither?

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: Amos
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 09:50 AM

Which indicates that despite our materialistic successes, we often revert to rampant animism, watching the souls of broken down appliances, overworked timepieces and Chevy Novas flit off to new beginnings while their complex material workings collapse without them and become mere junk. I guess old belief systems never die, they just go underground! :D


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: Windsinger
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 10:51 AM

...which begs the whole concept of "Silicone Heaven" as proposed in Red Dwarf (Season III, "The Last Day")

:)

Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 01:19 PM

How we do learn things around here. Used that expression a lot, but now I have more of an idea what it means. Thanks for asking, Dani.


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 08:45 PM

Not "whither", my dear, but "whence".

Verily, because my sister asked, and I knew not. Howsomeever, knew whereat to look.

Told her that by the time she looked here, there'd be 6 or 7 answers.

Witness!

Dani


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: Janie
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 09:43 PM

Well whither I asked whence or not now I know why thy asked whence.

Glad to hear you are not contemplating giving up your own or anyone else's ghost:*/

Shades of Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 06:23 AM

Interesting to read. We still have the old meaning in our word 'Geist'. It also carries the new meaning, so that 'Geist' means ghost and spirit, soul, and mind. When you speak about 'mind and matter' we speak about 'Geist und Materie'.

The profession who deal with the 'ghost' in the old sense is of course called 'Geistliche' ('ghostlies') that is 'clergymen'. The broad use of that word stem in German can also be seen in 'geistige Getränke' (ghosty drinks) meaning of course in the new English spirits that is drink that influence the 'ghost' (in the old sense) of a person.

BTW, the old meaning of 'ghost' even in the old spelling mentioned by Fionn can still be seen in the English word 'aghast', verbatim without/ out of 'gha(o)st'.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 06:32 AM

This thread seems to have captured the Zeitgeist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 05:30 PM

As far as I can recall, one of the Gospel accounts of the crucifixion, which is read during the Good Friday liturgy, refers to Jesus giving up the ghost, which is probably how the expression entered common usage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 06:29 PM

"Ghost", meaning spirit or wind, is cognate with "gust", as in "gust of wind".


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 07:50 PM

Exactly, McG. Ghost, spirit, spirit= "wind" or "breath"


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 08:23 PM

Amos, how did you know that a '72 Chevy Nova is absolutely my dream car!?

Dani


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Subject: RE: BS: Whence 'Give up the Ghost'?!
From: Anonny Mouse
Date: 08 Mar 06 - 03:17 PM

Part of the reason it went to "Holy Spirit" was 'cause these days "ghost" is too much associated with something frightful, or hauntings, or even worse--Casper (friendly as he is). But both words connote wind or breath--"spirit" as in-SPIRE or ex-SPIRE. Ghost-gust (as of wind). In Hebrew, "ruach"=wind=spirit as in what God breathed into Adam to give him life, where "nephish" (sp?) is "soul" or "spirit" in that dualistic sense. "Give up the ghost" is most like more about taking and ex-piring yer last BREATH than some ectoplasmic, glowing wisp like ya see in the movies.


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